Quadrafire 1000 smoke pouring out at startup

[gimmeagig]

Hi,
I have a Qudrafire 1000 with a ceramic firepot. It has been working fine for the whole winter,but the last couple of days when I first start it up, there are massive amounts of smoke pouring out of it. Out of the bottom chamber, the window edges, the vent holes at the top,everywhere....
That lasts for about a minute and then the smoke subsides,the stove starts up normally and for the rest of the day this symptom does not reoccur.
The dust pan in the bottom collects some pellets during the day that drop hot out of a hole in the firepot ( that hole seems to be perfectly round and it does not actually go all the way up into the burning chamber seems to be part of the design). and they seem to continue combusting inside that dustpan.I shut off the thermostat at night and in the mornings I always clean this pan out so the smoke has nothing to do with that.
What could be happening and what should I do?
Thanks

 

[jtakeman]

Its either the air holes in the burnpot are clogged, Stove might be plugged with soot or your vent pipe is getting full of soot. Usually when stoves do this its an air issue. only other thought would be too much fuel is getting dumped in on start up. Try pushig in the feed gate thats in the hopper(this mostly happens if you change pellet brands).

 

[pete324rocket]

Also,is there any ashes, soot etc that keeps the ignitor from giving the pellets a real good sunburn in the lighting cycle? My stove does the smokey campfire when it starts but it all stays inside the stove so I don't care that much.

 

[gimmeagig]

So if my stove is plugged up with soot, what is the procedure to clean it? I cleaned the individual pans, the burn chamber, the inside of the fire pot,that's all I know how to do. What do I have to disassemble and clean to get rid of the soot buildup??
Same question for the vent pipe. I have no Idea how I would clean it. I have a vent pipe that is about 15 ft tall from the stove to the ceiling and the section of the roof where it comes out is pretty steep. We still have snow and I'd be too scared to climb up there right now.

 

[jtakeman]

Here is a couple of snips from your manual. One other thing is the ceramic pots cracked and most were replaced early by quad. Make sure yours isn't cracked.

A member here named snowy rivers owns a quad 1000, Maybe she can give you some cleaning tips. My little 800 is pretty different than the 1000.

 

[gimmeagig]

Thanks for that info.I did clean the big heat exchanger already.I'll clean the small one tomorrow.The seals are all good.
The fire pot may be history. There's a small dome shaped piece in the center of the bowl and that piece has disintegrated. It does not seem like the fire pot is cracked all the way through though.
But I realize that a replacement will be needed soon. What confuses me about the smoking is the fact that it only happens at first startup in the morning. After that the stove starts up and shuts itself down about 6 times throughout the day and no smoke.
Is there an explanation for that?

 

[gimmeagig]

So this morning I tried starting it without cleaning it first to see if it would smoke and yes it did. it lasted about 30 seconds. The smoke seems to mostly come out of three holes that are facing down on the right side bottom of the stove( not the pedestal, but the burning chamber part)
What is behind that panel that could cause this smoking? Again, I just don't understand why it only happens at first startup and why it's fine during the rest of the day.I'm going to vacuum that area out behind both panels as soon as the stove shuts down( I got to warm up the house first,it's freezing!) and then I'm curious if that makes any difference.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If you have a lot of smoke building up inside the stove it can come out the air wash (bottom or top of the glass), air intake (bottom of the stove usually), through the ash pan doors (if not properly sealed and there is access to the firebox, usually at the bottom of the stove) or between the stove door and frame (where ever the gasket is bad).

 

[Czech]

Ignitor? Meaning getting hot enough or slots plugged?

 

[kofkorn]

I don't have any experience with your stove, but is it possible the burn pot is installed backwards? Could the "Perfectly round hole" that the pellets are falling out of potentially line up with the ignitor if the pot is turned around?

 

[arnash]

If the burn pot isn't being installed backwards, then the igniter might not be close enough to the pellets. You could always do what I do and squirt a little lamp oil on the pellets, that helps them burn right away. As for the smoke, I think the problem is the heavy cold air in your vent pipe. The air from the combustion blower encounters a lot of air resistance when it first starts-up since the air is cold, not hot. The smoke in the stove doesn't move out the vent right away because the air in the vent isn't moving much so it leaks into the room. Do what I do and let the combustion blower run for half a minute before lighting the stove.

 

[gimmeagig]

I only know how to start the stove by turning on the thermostat which automatically calls for heat. How would I turn on just the blower? I don't think I have any switches for that.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I only know how to start the stove by turning on the thermostat which automatically calls for heat. How would I turn on just the blower? I don't think I have any switches for that.

You are correct you don't have any switches for doing that.

The quads usually produce a lot of smoke when the air flow through the burn pot is hampered this can be caused by ash, crud in the burn pot holes, or any of things that causes a burn pot air bypass such as gaskets and additional holes in the burn pot that are not under the fuel.

Anything on the igniter or a failing igniter is a possibility.

Also if the venting has a lot of ash in it.

A failing or dirty combustion blower as well.

 

[Jim H.]

the new steel firepot is very nice. this should help you. My old quad 1000 firepot got so old it practically fell apart. that can lead to excess smoke especially where it can not easily go into the exhaust.

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

(where ever the gasket is bad).

how is the burnpot gasket?
one of the first thing to check if Smokey start up

 

[arnash]

Since he problem is only at start-up, that's evidence of bad combustion and lack of air circulation, which leads one to suspect bad combustion that's due to lack of air circulation, which would mean the combustion blower isn't starting immediately. I'm familiar with that happening because it happens to my stove more times than I 'm comfortable with. That's why I start the blower before lighting the burn pot. Otherwise the stove will fill up with smoke. It happened again this morning. I had to wait 10-15 seconds until the blower finally kicked-in. Unfortunately, I don't know what causes the start-up of the blower motor to lag.

 

[jtakeman]

Since he problem is only at start-up, that's evidence of bad combustion and lack of air circulation, which leads one to suspect bad combustion that's due to lack of air circulation, which would mean the combustion blower isn't starting immediately. I'm familiar with that happening because it happens to my stove more times than I 'm comfortable with. That's why I start the blower before lighting the burn pot. Otherwise the stove will fill up with smoke. It happened again this morning. I had to wait 10-15 seconds until the blower finally kicked-in. Unfortunately, I don't know what causes the start-up of the blower motor to lag.

If your combustion blower isn't starting and the stove is still filling the burnpot? Your vacuum/pressure switch isn't funcioning properly. No vacuum in the firebox and the switch should not allow the auger to drop fuel. Yes the combustion blower should start immediately, But the vacuum switch is also at fault. There is more than one issue to look at.

 

[gimmeagig]

The blower starts immediately , then after a while a second one which seems to be stronger kicks in. Could also be the same one at a higher speed, i don't know. I replaced the burn pot gasket recently and it is fine. Can I clean the vent holes in the side of the burn pot simply by shoving a piece of wire through? Again, I just don't understand why it would only smoke at first startup in the morning and then not at all anymore for the rest of the day. It has been very cold here in the past few months and that did not seem to make the stove smoke in the house, so why now?
I'm puzzled.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

The Quad 1000 has two fans that come on right at startup.

The exhaust fan thats on the RH lower rear of the stove. This fan pulls the air/smoke though the heat exchangers and forces it out the vent.

The other fan is the booster fan thats located on the LH rear inside the little cover.

This fan pressurises the plenum box under the fire pot.

Both these fans must be running any time the stove is Starting, running, burning and will only shut off after the cycle is over and the fire is out and the pot has cooled enough that the ECM shuts them off.

Be really sure that the little booster fan is running and that it spins freely and the fan is clean and free of crap.

The ceramic firepot needs to be replaced with the newer steel pot and the updated ignitor unit.

Snowy

 

[arnash]

Yeah, the smaller booster fan could be the problem if it's start is lagging behind the main fan, especially if your stove is like that one in a similar thread, where it was discovered that the combustion fan only operated at 78 volts at start-up, later increasing to 110V.


FireGod, "If your combustion blower isn’t starting and the stove is still filling the burnpot? Your vacuum/pressure switch isn’t funcioning properly."
Thanks for the tip, but my stove is first generation, so it doesn't even have a vacuum/pressure system and my auger motor has an off/on switch which I switch on only after a good fire is going in the pot. My stove also lacks any control board that I can see, just a module that all the power/sensor wires connect to.
Today was the scariest start-up so far in the 11 weeks I've been using the stove, in the sense that the sound that the combustion motor made after finally starting to turn was very ugly, kind of a combination of squeal and moan/groan that lasted 1-2 seconds. I'd sure like to know what's causing that so I can prevent it from getting worse and possible failing. I fear it might not start at all tomorrow. I have oiled the motor, twice in fact, so if anything, perhaps it was over-oiled in my gamble that it had never been oiled in the past.

 

[jtakeman]

Yeah, the smaller booster fan could be the problem if it's start is lagging behind the main fan, especially if your stove is like that one in a similar thread, where it was discovered that the combustion fan only operated at 78 volts at start-up, later increasing to 110V.


j-takeman, "If your combustion blower isn’t starting and the stove is still filling the burnpot? Your vacuum/pressure switch isn’t funcioning properly."
Thanks for the tip, but my stove is first generation, so it doesn't even have a vacuum/pressure system and my auger motor has an off/on switch which I switch on only after a good fire is going in the pot. My stove also lacks any control board that I can see, just a module that all the power/sensor wires connect to.
Today was the scariest start-up so far in the 11 weeks I've been using the stove, in the sense that the sound that the combustion motor made after finally starting to turn was very ugly, kind of a combination of squeal and moan/groan that lasted 1-2 seconds. I'd sure like to know what's causing that so I can prevent it from getting worse and possible failing. I fear it might not start at all tomorrow. I have oiled the motor, twice in fact, so if anything, perhaps it was over-oiled in my gamble that it had never been oiled in the past.

Most of the combustion blowers use sealed bearings. Not much of the lube will get into the bearing. If you take a minute to remove it and disassemble the motor(to expose the bearings). You can get some lube into the sealed bearing by using a injector(syringe). Use a thin flat blade screw driver to gently lift the seal lip on the innner race of the bearing. Inject the lube and it should quite down for you. While your there note the part numbers on the bearings and order two to replace the old ones. This is the cheapest way to repair the blower. Much cheapier than ordering a motor or complete blower. most of the time the bearings are what fails.

keep us posted!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

arnash,

This "discovered that the combustion fan only operated at 78 volts at start-up, later increasing to 110V. " is a very common operating trait, the combustion blower is a low idle during ignition.

 

[arnash]

Fire God, thanks for the tip about how to oil the bearings. My stove is so old that it has tiny holes for annual oiling, which the manual calls for.
I think my blower is probably OK, it started perfectly last night and this morning. I suspect that the reason for that ugly sounds on start-up yesterday might have been because the door was wide open. I think I read something about that causing a lack of negative pressure though I'm not sure about the principle involved. Could that cause undue strain on the blower at start-up? (bare in mind that my stove is all manual -no vacuum system)