Question on Vermont Castings wood stove

[sean b]

Hello all, newbie here with question I couldn't get answered by the dealer. If anyone's familiar with the Vermont Castings Encore 1450 non cat wood stove, I'd appreciate some feedback. There's a part inside the stove called the fountain assembly, which sits behind the lower refractory. With the damper closed, it channels the smoke output up, down and then back up again through a bit of a maze, before exiting out through the flu collar and chimney connector. At the top of the fountain assembly on each side, where the smoke first rises before being directed downward again, the material is worn/burnt away. My questions are: is this mainly an emissions concern or also safety-related? If it needs repaired/replaced, could I fabricate a cap for each side made out of fire brick? I called the dealer and got almost nothing for technical expertise. They were only interested in selling a $300 replacement part. Which I'll buy if I absolutely have to. It's just that I have no idea how significant this issue is. The stove is only about 5 years old so this seems odd that I should have to be replacing a part like that already. Gaskets, yes.... But this? Please help.

Parts diagram and list are on pages 32 & 33 if interested in advising. http://www.fergusonfireplace.com/30002425_Encore_NC_1450.pdf

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

Welcome. Folks have fabricated their own parts to fix downdraft stoves with failing refractory parts. Success varies with the extend of degradation, location of damage and quality of repair. Most use ceramic board or vermiculite panel pieces pinned in place instead of metal. Some have even cast their own refractory parts. If going that route is interesting, here's a primer:
http://gordosoft.com/woodstove/refractoryDIY.htm

Often these repairs don't last more than a season. The design is a fragile one and why most here recommend staying away from stoves built this way. Too bad, they are very good looking stoves.

 

[webby3650]

If you do a little research on this site you will quickly find that this is normal for this stove. Unfortunately it's an inferior design and is plaqued with failure.

There is really nothing you can fabricate to take the place of the vulnerable fountain, they aren't just trying to sell you parts.

 

[sean b]

I appreciate the feed back. Sounds like I should have done more homework before buying. So...... more questions.... Is it a safety issue to burn it the way it is? Basically, the smoke would exit the top of the fountain the first time instead of the second time. And, if I just buy the replacement part, is it fairly easy to replace?

 

[webby3650]

I appreciate the feed back. Sounds like I should have done more homework before buying. So...... more questions.... Is it a safety issue to burn it the way it is? Basically, the smoke would exit the top of the fountain the first time instead of the second time. And, if I just buy the replacement part, is it fairly easy to replace?

I wouldn't consider it a safety issue, could be hard on the stove? Since the heat could be concentrated in an area that it's not intended to be.

These stoves look easy to work on. But the issue is that almost always other refractory parts fall apart. So, although the work can be "easy", be prepared for other parts failures along the way.

 

[sean b]

Thanks webby. I was figuring as much. I remember the day the stove was delivered and a noticeable crack could be seen on the refractory shoe. I called the dealer and they weren't at all surprised....... or willing to do anything about it. Don't know how long this stove will continue to heat my house but it's become clear that the next stove will most likely not come from Vermont Castings.

 

[Diabel]

If the fountain/combustion package is failing you will not obtain the secondary combustion from this stove. The heat output will be reduced by at least 50%. You will see lots of smoke out the pipe. You will need to clean the chimney often. Basically, you will have a smoke dragon.

I had the same stove, sold it before any internal parts started to fail. There are several interesting threads here on "neverburn" search it
Cheers

 

[sean b]

Does anyone know how much the rebuild kit costs? I was told the fountain is $300 but if I should expect to find other parts in need of repair, maybe I should consider the whole kit.

 

[Diabel]

Do a search here. While back someone here had it priced.

 

[jharkin]

The good news - BeGreen is right about people making up or casting their own refractory.

The bad news - its a lot easier to do on the catalytic models (Encore & defiant) since the refractory is a simple rectangular box to hold the catalyst. Its easy to mock up with refractory board and might hold up 5-10 years. The everburn system is a lot more complex since it has to hold the smoke in and super heat it to trigger secondary combustion.

I'm not directly familiar with the 1450 but generally on these stoves once you start tearing apart the back of the stove to get at these parts its worthwhile to replace them all... kind of like changing the tensioner and water pump when you change a timing belt. If you dont next year something else will go


You have the stove already so no redo but the sad truth is the consensus option seems to be the everburn stove a lot more challenging to burn well and maintain than the even the catalytic VC (which are also downdraft) - and those are no cakewalk at times. Good luck.

 

[sean b]

Guys, thanks very much for all the info, especially to a new member who hasn't brought anything to the table yet. I just spoke with a local dealer who said VC offers a revised fountain replacement part that includes gaskets and whatever else is commonly replaced along with it for $328. And in stock. I'm going to do that and if it gets me another 5+ years of very comfortable winters of 24/7 use, I'm not too terribly unhappy with the situation. I'll be taking measurements and giving serious effort to casting one of my own for next time though.

As far as this stove's performance goes, it really hasn't been challenging at all to burn. It gets a rare case of the hickups once in a while and burps out some smoke, which seems to happen when the barometer dips more than ever, but aside from that, we've really enjoyed it for the most part.

 

[Diabel]

Pay close attention to overfire situations and glowing "cherry red" rear casts of the stove!

That is what freaked me out and made me get rid of the stove. I believe VC offered a complete kit swap of the inner parts of the 1450 to a 2in1 cat stove. I read this somewhere here.

 

[sean b]

Got everything disassembled this afternoon. (Got a chuckle out of the advice pertaining to removing the refractory shoe carefully so as not to damage the gasket underneath.) Only issue I see besides needing a new fountain assembly and maybe a few gaskets is a crack in the rear (no pun intended), just below where the flu collar sits. Seems I saw an identical crack in the same place on someone else's stove while searching the archives today. Can I drill a small hole to stop it and then hit it with refractory cement and fuggetaboutit?

 

[bholler]

Can I drill a small hole to stop it and then hit it with refractory cement and fuggetaboutit?

no not really refractory cement wont do anything really. Can you show me a pic of that cracked part from further back?

 

[sean b]

Do you mean panned back or from a reverse angle?

I see that you're also from central PA? Where abouts if I may ask? I'm in Duncannon.

 

[bholler]

Do you mean panned back or from a reverse angle?

I see that you're also from central PA? Where abouts if I may ask? I'm in Duncannon.

we work out of middleburg. But cover from duncannon to williamsport. Any angle really i just want to see which part it is to see if it would effect function

 

[sean b]

 

[Diabel]

Oh my
The back of the stove is not looking good

 

[Diabel]

I want to say over fire (glowing red) from my own experience, but it does not look dis colored (pealing red tint).

 

[sean b]

I've never seen it glowing red or even close. Always been very cautious about that. And the thermostat was almost always set at low as the stove, while sized for our square footage, usually kept the house cozy that way.

Would it be outrageous to suggest that perhaps Vermont Castings' castings may have suffered similar quality issues as the innards?

 

[Diabel]

I've never seen it glowing red or even close. Always been very cautious about that. And the thermostat was almost always set at low as the stove, while sized for our square footage, usually kept the house cozy that way.

Would it be outrageous to suggest that perhaps Vermont Castings' castings may have suffered similar quality issues as the innards?

Yes to your second parapgraph!!

Sorry to say, but in my opinion it is not worth repairing this stove.

 

[bholler]

I agree with diabel. With the back panel comprised it is unsafe to use. You could probably get a new back but why spend the money on a stove that has lots of known flaws. If it was me i would move on and start looking for a replacement.

 

[bholler]

Would it be outrageous to suggest that perhaps Vermont Castings' castings may have suffered similar quality issues as the innards?

No their castings are still and always have been first rate but their design and engineering has been pretty poor. It has gotten better of late but still leaves allot to be desired

 

[begreen]

Sorry to say that I have to agree with the recommendation to scrap the stove. This shows some serious issues. I don't think it's worth investing in repairing. Maybe see if the dealer would take it in on a trade?

 

[sean b]

wow... what a bummer. $2200 spent on a stove that lasted 6.5 years.