Really could use input! New project

[warthogtaz]

I have been searching for any source of heat that's better than oil. I am tired of it taking all my cash come winter and its unpredictability. I was considering geothermal, but my circumstances make my geothermal investment about $55,000. That's a long time before that pays for itself.

I've looked at outdoor wood boiler for years, mostly out of curiosity and have decided to do some research. So far, I have liked what I have seen. I have been spending some time on Hearth.com researching other posts, but would love any input this community would be willing to offer.

Some questions I have are:

1. Who makes the best gasification boiler?

A couple recommendations from talking to people are; get a boiler that has the sprayed in polyurethane insulation since it is water tight, and avoid top chimneys because they cause leakage.

2. How do I attach to my house? Through heat exchanges or directly through existing boiler?

I have been told the best way to get both heat and domestic hot water is to run it through the oil burner/boiler. Then, when the wood cuts out the oil furnace kicks in. Anyone do this? Was it expensive? Effective?

3. Circulators on unit, or inside existing oil furnace?

It was suggested to me that circulators on the gasification unit constantly circulate, costing more in wood and electricity. Whereas if run through the boiler, it only draws heat based on actual demand. Can anyone support that?

4. 1" lines or 1-1/4" Is there such a thing as to big when choosing?

5. What type of maintenance should I expect?

6. I'm thinking about sharing heat with neighbors? Aside from relationship issues, what should I expect from heating two homes?

Will I use double the wood? Anyone know?

7. I saw a great idea for insulating lines posted by taxidermist under the heading Underground Lines - not a place to skimp! Anyone think this was not a great way of doing you lines? If so why? I would like some perspective on this before I choose which direction to go.

Just over all, any information, suggestions, ideas you may have, I welcome them and appreciate your interest.

Thanks!
Jeff

 

[Willman]

Welcome to the forum.
Properly seasoned wood rules the day. Make sure you have plenty. You need to know the size of whatever boiler you should decide on. This requires a heat loss calculation. District heating is common in Europe. Not certain of distances to other houses, but this is the limiting factor.Tubing size has to be sized to amount of btus that has to be flowed. Piping and control is a world of its own after the boiler.

The best boiler no matter the fuel source is one that is locally sourced and installed and serviced if it is not DIY.
Click on the banner ads for a starting point for equipment selection. The stickies above are also a good resource, as well as the search function.

Will

 

[warthogtaz]

Thanks Will for your input! It is appreciated.

 

[samuel]

If you are looking for an outdoor wood boiler you should start here: http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/owhhlist.html. The State of Maine has specific regulations on these appliances regarding particulate emissions, setback, chimney height, etc. - in Chapter 150: CONTROL OF EMISSIONS FROM OUTDOOR WOOD BOILERS. I agree with Willman about your wood supply and obtaining the services of a local dealer/installer. If you are considering heating multiple buildings (could be a big heat load) there are only a few on the market that could successfully do it. A local dealer will want to see your heating bills so they can properly size a unit for you (for both houses if that is the plan). I'd post the regulations for you but I can't post a PDF. Good luck.

 

[warthogtaz]

Thank you Sam for the advise. I appreciate the link, and the info. Have a great day!

Jeff

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Welcome & happy reading, lots of that to do.

I will give your Q's a shot.

1)Who makes the best gasification boiler?..... Many companies make excellent boilers. Most of the best use a fan to pull air through the unit as opposed to pushing air, this has the added benefit of being able to open the door without getting smoke in your face as well as the building. None of them are cheap, with good reason. They are far more than a simple steel box that you light a fire in. Actually if you asked members what to avoid you would be able to narrow your choices quite a bit. Bottom line (your) best boiler is one that fits (your) needs, that's a list you need to create. Then start to narrow it down based on quality units that fit (your) needs.

2)How to attach to my house?.... If at all possible try not to run this source of heat through an existing boiler as the chimney draft (on the existing boiler) will suck heat up & out wasting your time, money & effort. Try to have systems run in parallel, ie when one is on the other is off & not robbing heat from the other. Plenty of reading to do on a parallel piping system as opposed to an in series one.

3)Circs wherever they may be should run on a call for heat only unless there is a valid reason to do otherwise. Why waste elec & heat? System should be plumbed & wired to run on demand only. Sounds like you talked to an OWB guy as most of them run constantly because they sit outside in -40 exposed to the elements on all sides, they have to run all the time or they would freeze like a brick. Put your boiler in a conditioned space & run it as mentioned.

4)The size & number of lines you need will be determined by the load(s) you are feeding. Heatloss calcs needed for those 2 houses, as well as location of boiler in relation to the homes.

5)Maintenance on quality units will largely be limited to cleaning on an annual basis as well as removing ash on an as needed basis. Your annual service on these units will involve no more than a days work. Water sample & adjustment if req'd annually. Provided of course that you burn properly seasoned wood 20% MC or less. Plenty of threads here on the excessive service & cleaning of lesser quality units & burning wet wood. Try to avoid those.

6)Depends on the heatloss calcs. One thing to make sure of is that you purchase a unit that will more than handle all the loads on the coldest day of the year in your area. Cant emphasize quality choice enough here as you will be the heating utility for all structures connected to the boiler. Ask them how under the gun they are when the heat goes out in the dead of winter, sounds like your volunteering for the same so choose quality over price. You will be glad you did. Wood consumption will have a direct relationship to the loads it feeds. ie the bigger the loads the more wood you will require.

7)Follow the good advice in that thread as well as many others, read all the stickies. Many members have bared their souls so to speak, worst thing would be if no one learned from it.

Keep asking questions, even when you think they are not the greatest. Best way to learn is by being curious, any good apprentice has an abundance of curiousity. Many "been there done that" members here that are great at helping folks sort it all out. Summer time is slow on the board so be patient. Hope this helps.

 

[warthogtaz]

Hugely helpful. You have generated some questions I hadn't even thought of. Thanks so much.

One more question I have for you directly though. You mentioned that there would be heat loss out the chimney for direct to boiler hook ups, so I should run in parallel. Do you think it would be worth trying it for a season, to get a sense of wood usage? I can imagine it is a lot less to bite off in one year, by hooking direct. It's a great point though, and I would like to weigh the options.

Thanks again!

 

[willworkforwood]

..... You mentioned that there would be heat loss out the chimney for direct to boiler hook ups, so I should run in parallel. Do you think it would be worth trying it for a season, to get a sense of wood usage? I can imagine it is a lot less to bite off in one year, by hooking direct. ....

I had the same situation 3 years ago. It was going to be quite a bit easier to pipe my (basement) gaser in series with the OB, since all of the existing controls would continue to function unchanged. I had also read before installing (on this incredibly helpful forum) about the heat loss issue, and had planned on switching to parallel after the first year. However, I've been able to determine that there is not very much loss through the OB, and cannot cost justify re-piping and changing controls. My EB does a wonderful job keeping the house at 73-74 (for my wonderful wife) all Winter, using a very reasonable amount of wood. This is just one persons experience - YMMV.
I'm surprised that no one has put in a caution about trying to share 1 WB for 2 households. There are many folks on this forum who use one boiler to heat multiple buildings. However, I believe in all cases that they are able to fully calculate and control the total overall heating requirements. A second household in the loop is something that can't be controlled. Although this would never happen in your household, their teenage daughter has a slumber party with 5 of her friends, and they all take 1 hour (hot) showers. Or they open a window in January because it's too warm in their room. :grrr: Wood boilers do not operate on-demand - falling way behind the call for heat can mean an extended recovery time. Others may say that properly-sized storage would take care of things, but frankly I wouldn't get into something like this under any circumstances - JMHO. In any case, best of luck with your project!

 

[warthogtaz]

Good information to consider. I will factor the neighbor variable wisely, and your warning will help in my overall decision. Thanks!

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Sure you can try hooking in series for a season, running the wood boiler through the fossil unit. See how it goes so to speak or break the project into managable bites. Two downsides will be the draft up the chimney & keeping the fossil unit heated via the wood boiler all winter. The first will be lost heat up & out, the second will be increased standby losses by keeping an uninsulated vessel (the fossil unit) warm all heating season.

As to the chimney think of it this way; would you cut a hole in your ceiling/wall the same size as your chimney & just let the heat escape? Thats what happens, actually a proper chimney should be worse as it should draft (suck) air out.

Whether you deal with the wasteful parts of your install/situation now or later is up to you, however I do recommend that you deal with them, as a quality wood boiler should last 20-40 years & that is a long time to just waste energy that you will sweat to produce. Why do all that work for nothing? Let Washington be in charge of hot air production.

My suggestion would be that you focus on heating all the structures as efficiently as possible, boiler piping & controls are just two of the factors in that equation, many other things to consider as well that have nothing to do with any boiler.

 

[warthogtaz]

Thanks again for the input. What you say makes reasonable sense, and should be addressed.

Thank you!

Jeff

 

[henfruit]

Frozen, If you dont keep the oil boiler in the loop you will have a cold unit.With a few cold starts the expansion contraction on the sections will lead to leaks.

 

[jebatty]

...teenage daughter has a slumber party with 5 of her friends, and they all take 1 hour (hot) showers.

Time for all of them to enlist in the Navy ...

 

[warthogtaz]

LOL... That's a good one.