reassure me re: my new woodstock fireview

[sksmass]

Finished my 3 break-in burns last week and am running my new fireview for its first extended fire with the cat engaged right now.
Pics soon, but right now I need some advice.

1) It takes a really long time, and a lot of wood, to get it up to 250 stovetop from a cold start. I'm talking like an hour plus maybe 10 small splits. I give it a lot of air, leaving it open (4) until it gets going, and then maybe throttle back to 2 or so until it drifts up to 250f. Is it OK to damp it down during the run up to 250? I think if I were to let it run wide open the pipe would get too hot.

2) I have not stuffed it to the gills yet -- still learning. I've put in perhaps 1/3 of a firebox load at a time, and it seems to get up to about 475 stovetop and 325 on the pipe with the cat engaged and the damper at 1.0. And at that level of damper the flames are really lazy, often there is no flame on the blackened wood itself, just flames drifting down from the top. Is that OK?

3) I just peeked and there are actually no flames at all right now, just a glowing red cat. Is it OK to run that way? Still doing its job?

4) Does the cat have to be glowing red to be working?

 

[fire_man]

Finished my 3 break-in burns last week and am running my new fireview for its first extended fire with the cat engaged right now.
Pics soon, but right now I need some advice.

1) It takes a really long time, and a lot of wood, to get it up to 250 stovetop from a cold start. I'm talking like an hour plus maybe 10 small splits. I give it a lot of air, leaving it open (4) until it gets going, and then maybe throttle back to 2 or so until it drifts up to 250f. Is it OK to damp it down during the run up to 250? I think if I were to let it run wide open the pipe would get too hot.

2) I have not stuffed it to the gills yet -- still learning. I've put in perhaps 1/3 of a firebox load at a time, and it seems to get up to about 475 stovetop and 325 on the pipe with the cat engaged and the damper at 1.0. And at that level of damper the flames are really lazy, often there is no flame on the blackened wood itself, just flames drifting down from the top. Is that OK?

3) I just peeked and there are actually no flames at all right now, just a glowing red cat. Is it OK to run that way? Still doing its job?

4) Does the cat have to be glowing red to be working?

Hi sksmass! welcome to a great place to trade Fireview advice. It sounds like you are doing great.

1. 1 hour is not too long to get the stovetop up to 250. I think Woodstock says 45 minutes is about right, but nothing wrong with 1 hour. It's important to not push it too hard, the Fireview has a lot of stone and you don't want to crack it by raising the temp too quick. I do exactly what you do, leave it on (4) until it gets going, then throttle back to (2) till it hits 250. Throttling back actually helps the stove reach temp sooner because you are not losing all the heat up the flue. It you left it on 4 the whole time it would overheat the cast iron and like you said the pipe would get too hot. You are learning very fast.

2. It's great you got to 475 stovetop with only 1/3 load. That must be some nice dry wood, Backwoods Savage would be proud of you. Lazy flames drifting down from the top means you are seeing secondary combustion, and that's the most efficient way to burn. You are burning gasses as opposed to the wood itself. It's fine not to have any flame, and that's what happens after the secondaries finish.

3. The glowing red cat with no flames is fine. The cat is eating the smoke and putting out lots of heat.

4. The cat does not have to be glowing red to work. It only glows when it hits its highest temps, but its putting out lots of heat when not glowing, until the stove top temp drops way below 250.

There is lots of great advice on this site for Fireview owners, just keep the great questions coming and enjoy the stove!

 

[smokingolf]

I don't have a cat stove, but I think from what you are telling us everyone will wonder about your wood. What type of wood are you burning and how long has it been down and split, is it dry? When I first got my stove I got a load of wood from a local guy and was told it was dry, but I had so many problems that first year getting a good fire going. It would take so long to get it going and when I closed it down it would die down and I couldn't keep the glass clean. By the end of the season my wood was dry enough and I was getting good burns. Now after burning for 4 seasons and going into my 5th I've learned to have at least a cord that has been stacked for at least 1 year. One suggestion is to get a moister meter, I got one for christmas last year and found out the wood I was buying was at 35% and the wood that was stacked from last year was around 20%. I still get wood from the same guy but I know it has to sit for a while before burning.

Good luck,

Brian

 

[sksmass]

I can vouch for the wood. I cut it, bucked it, and split it myself in March 2009. So it has been drying for 19 months. All cherry and norway maple.
Just re-split a maple split and it reads 12%

 

[leeave96]

+1 for what Tony said.

From a totally cold start, it's going to take a while to get the soapstones warmed-up. Once you start firing the stove, even when it's gone out for a few hours, the soap stones will be holding heat, so the next start-up won't take quite as long.

Glowing cat is normal when dampered down, the cat doesn't have to glow to be working. A good check is to walk outside and have a look-see at your chimney and if there is no smoke, your cat is doing it's job.

When I bought my Keystone, I was wound-up to trying to acheive long burns, little flame, lot's of glowing cat and a damper setting at 1 or below. My opinion is it's a great way to bank the fire for overnight burns, or ratchet down the stove for less heat when the outdoor temps are not so cool, or to just conserve the firewood. What that got me was some great burn times, a dirty glass and not much to set and look at while perched in front of the stove. Note that I have the Keystone and it has a large front glass across the front of the stove and I kind of wanted to see the flame too! I'd imagine you would want the same too. Sooooo, now I open the damper a bit more, get a flame that wicks the bottom of the cat shield - rolling off the logs and it is wonderful! In learning your stove, I'd recommend you figure out your damper settings and enjoy the "fire view"

Also, remember that for longer overnight burn times, rounds last longer than splits.

You have a GREAT stove!

Good luck,
Bill

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Not a Fireview owner, but I can say that the fastest I have gotten my rock to 250 is about 40 minutes, and maybe another 30 minutes to get to 450.. That's from a dead cold stove.

 

[sksmass]

It is just so counterintuitive to see a bunch of blackened logs in the stove, with no flame on them, yet that is OK.
My instinct is that they must be smoldering and creating creosote because there is no active flame around them.
But the cat is glowing eating the smoke from that smolder I guess, so it is OK?

 

[Todd]

Sounds pretty normal to me. You could speed things up some, maybe you need to bring the air down even further than #2 during start ups? Watch the flames during start up, if they are getting sucked up the flue keep cutting the air back til they fill the fire box, for me this is a little over #1. The more flame in the box the quicker the stove will heat up.

There are also times when I engage between 200-250 stove top but I make sure I have established a coal bed, have a well charred load and my pipe temps are up in the 400+ range. If the cat doesn't lite off for me I disengage and give it more time.

Keep playing with those air settings, you will find your sweet spot in no time. Basically more air equals more heat even though a smouldering black fire box can give you 700 stove tops you will find lots of red coals and flame will heat the whole mass of the stove and produce more heat but also burn more wood. The most efficient burn is what you were describing with the ghostly floating flames and red cat.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Yep. For us non-cat owners it's the secondaries up there at the top, but no or little flames on the wood itself. But I agree, part of the joy of the stove in this house is the view of the fire.

 

[akennyd]

Been running our Fireview for almost two weeks now and this thing still just amazes me. I had the stove started up this evening had it up to temp with cat engaged and draft a little below 1 (maybe about .75) ...had a lazy orange flame...watched it for a few minutes then went to get a shower. After the shower, came back down to the stove and there was no visible flame, so I decide to open the draft just a hair...moved the lever about an 1/8" just to see what would happen...sat in front of the stove for not more than a minute and all of a sudden flame just explodes in the stove!! I mean loud enough that I easily heard it as it happened. The stove then settled into those beautiful floating flames and has been doing that for over an hour now!! Great stuff!! Stove top is right at 500 degrees. Maybe a little over a third full of wood for this burn (after the initial fire to heat up the stove).

I am tending to agree that this burn mode is the most efficient...this coming from a complete newbie...

Kenny{

 

[sksmass]

UPDATE: after a full day burning yesterday the downstairs was up to a comfortable 73 last night. I put two pretty big splits in around 10pm last night and then "slept" on the floor until 3am or so when things seemed to be pretty much winding down and I felt OK to go upstairs. At 7am the stovetop was at 200f and the downstairs had only dropped to 68. I put some kindling and small splits in, let it get to 250, and the engaged the cat. Back up to 450 stovetop, 325 pipe right now.

Two questions:

1) Is there any ill effect from trying to engage the cat too early? I tried engaging it at 225 because it just seemed "ready". However, it wasn't. It did not start glowing right away so I bypassed the cat again after 15 seconds or so and stepped away to let it get to 250. Did I do anythinig terrible to the cat during that experiement?

2) I notice that sometimes the glowing cat is not "evenly" glowing. That is, often the right and left edges will seem relatively cooler (not glowing) while the middle is glowing. Is that just because the flow of gasses tends towards the center of the cat so it is locally hotter?

 

[fire_man]

UPDATE: after a full day burning yesterday the downstairs was up to a comfortable 73 last night. I put two pretty big splits in around 10pm last night and then "slept" on the floor until 3am or so when things seemed to be pretty much winding down and I felt OK to go upstairs. At 7am the stovetop was at 200f and the downstairs had only dropped to 68. I put some kindling and small splits in, let it get to 250, and the engaged the cat. Back up to 450 stovetop, 325 pipe right now.

Two questions:

1) Is there any ill effect from trying to engage the cat too early? I tried engaging it at 225 because it just seemed "ready". However, it wasn't. It did not start glowing right away so I bypassed the cat again after 15 seconds or so and stepped away to let it get to 250. Did I do anythinig terrible to the cat during that experiement?

2) I notice that sometimes the glowing cat is not "evenly" glowing. That is, often the right and left edges will seem relatively cooler (not glowing) while the middle is glowing. Is that just because the flow of gasses tends towards the center of the cat so it is locally hotter?

sksmass: Good questions.

1. Engaging the cat too soon if done too often can lead to clogging and also damage due to moisture. Unburned smoke (cat not active) will tend to clog the cat quicker than a cat that is happily burning away. Also you want to heat the fuel up enough to drive excess moisture out from the wood. Moisture is also the cat's long term enemy. Doing this a few times is no big deal, but if done too often not so good. The cat does not become "active" until its temperature hits 500F (250F stovetop top.) I have gotten away with engaging slightly below (240ish) when the flue temps are high and then I do get a glowing cat. There is a time lag from the time the cat hits 500 to when the stovetop hits 250, but its a pretty sure thing that you will be safe if you do engage at 250. Is your cat the new Stainless Steel flavor? I heard it's less susceptible to moisture damage than the old ceramic style like mine.

2. I have noticed the same effect of the entire cat not always glowing. Sometimes the left side glows more than the right side or vise versa. I think it has to do with the exact turbulence set up in the cat chamber, which dictates how much smoke different sections of the cat sniffs. I have not figured out under which conditions this occurs, (higher outdoor temps?). All I can say right now is I have noticed the same thing. I wonder if the way wood is loaded makes a difference, how close the front log is to the cat screen? This is very near to the location of the intake of the cat. This would effect turbulence the most I think. Hopefully some others will give their ideas.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Finished my 3 break-in burns last week and am running my new fireview for its first extended fire with the cat engaged right now.
Pics soon, but right now I need some advice.

1) It takes a really long time, and a lot of wood, to get it up to 250 stovetop from a cold start. I'm talking like an hour plus maybe 10 small splits. I give it a lot of air, leaving it open (4) until it gets going, and then maybe throttle back to 2 or so until it drifts up to 250f. Is it OK to damp it down during the run up to 250? I think if I were to let it run wide open the pipe would get too hot.

2) I have not stuffed it to the gills yet -- still learning. I've put in perhaps 1/3 of a firebox load at a time, and it seems to get up to about 475 stovetop and 325 on the pipe with the cat engaged and the damper at 1.0. And at that level of damper the flames are really lazy, often there is no flame on the blackened wood itself, just flames drifting down from the top. Is that OK?

3) I just peeked and there are actually no flames at all right now, just a glowing red cat. Is it OK to run that way? Still doing its job?

4) Does the cat have to be glowing red to be working?

There have been some excellent replies to this thread and I hope it helps you learning the Fireview. Here are my thoughts:

1. It rarely takes me that long to get a cold stove up to temperature; only if I'm "busy" and have not done things as normal or have some uncooperative wood. How one lights the fire and what shape the fuel is in have much to do with how long it takes. Naturally is also depends upon how you handle the draft control. Here is how I usually do things:

a. Two splits on the bottom forming a slight vee. 1/4 Super Cedar in the middle. Light the Super Cedar. Add kindling (using soft maple). Add some splits on top of the kindling. Close door. Relax.

b. I find that I usually hear my flue (horizontal) talking to me if I listen closely. That is, I hear a very slight sound from expanding metal. It does this when the flue reaches approximately 500 degrees.

c. At this point I set the draft either to 2 or 1, depending on how strong the fire is. This will bring the flue temperature down usually to around 400. (Note that sometimes I do not wait for the 500 degree flue but simply dial the draft down sooner. It is no problem doing this.)

d. Usually we find the stove top reaching 250 somewhere between 30-45 minutes, however, I tend to go longer on the first fires in the fall of the year just in case the stone has soaked up some moisture. But that is only one time.

e. When do we add more wood? Normally we just wait for the cycle to complete itself but there have been times when we did not put enough wood in so we may add another split or two when the stove top is around 200 or maybe even 225. If we do that we know we should wait at least another 10-15 minutes before engaging the cat.


Is it okay to partially close the draft before the stove top reaches 250? No only is it okay, I find that it is necessary! Otherwise the heat simply goes up the chimney and/or the flue gets too hot.


2. 475/325 sounds good to me. Your firebox and flame also sound good.

3. With just the glowing red cat you are getting lots of heat. We get this a lot, no flame but glowing cat, and it is no problem. It surely made me wonder the first time it happened though. lol

4. No.


Again caution on the cat. I hear some folks engaging the cat before 250. That might be okay for the newer steel cats but if there is still moisture in the wood, your cat will begin to develop cracks a whole lot sooner. Just because the cat gets cracked does not mean it is dead though. Only when it starts to crumble.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Been running our Fireview for almost two weeks now and this thing still just amazes me. I had the stove started up this evening had it up to temp with cat engaged and draft a little below 1 (maybe about .75) ...had a lazy orange flame...watched it for a few minutes then went to get a shower. After the shower, came back down to the stove and there was no visible flame, so I decide to open the draft just a hair...moved the lever about an 1/8" just to see what would happen...sat in front of the stove for not more than a minute and all of a sudden flame just explodes in the stove!! I mean loud enough that I easily heard it as it happened. The stove then settled into those beautiful floating flames and has been doing that for over an hour now!! Great stuff!! Stove top is right at 500 degrees. Maybe a little over a third full of wood for this burn (after the initial fire to heat up the stove).

I am tending to agree that this burn mode is the most efficient...this coming from a complete newbie...

Kenny{

It sounds like you are doing fine Kenny.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

UPDATE: after a full day burning yesterday the downstairs was up to a comfortable 73 last night. I put two pretty big splits in around 10pm last night and then "slept" on the floor until 3am or so when things seemed to be pretty much winding down and I felt OK to go upstairs. At 7am the stovetop was at 200f and the downstairs had only dropped to 68. I put some kindling and small splits in, let it get to 250, and the engaged the cat. Back up to 450 stovetop, 325 pipe right now.

Two questions:

1) Is there any ill effect from trying to engage the cat too early? I tried engaging it at 225 because it just seemed "ready". However, it wasn't. It did not start glowing right away so I bypassed the cat again after 15 seconds or so and stepped away to let it get to 250. Did I do anythinig terrible to the cat during that experiement?

2) I notice that sometimes the glowing cat is not "evenly" glowing. That is, often the right and left edges will seem relatively cooler (not glowing) while the middle is glowing. Is that just because the flow of gasses tends towards the center of the cat so it is locally hotter?

Sksmass, it sounds to me like you need to relax a bit. It is hard to imagine stocking the stove for overnight at 10:00 but not going to bed until 3:00.

On the reload, it sounds like you did just fine.

1. Yes. I answered this in one of my other posts in this thread so you might go back and read that. More than likely you did the cat no harm with just one time but I would not recommend you continue with this practice. You can do it earlier if you wish but personally I can not see taking the chance of having to buy a new cat vs. waiting a few more minutes to reach 250 stove top.

2. That is normal and I think you've nailed it.

 

[sksmass]

Thanks Dennis for the helpful info! I am learning and enjoying my second full day of not having to burn any oil! Pictures soon, I promise!