Refurb existing unit, or buy new?

[LYHTSPD]

Hello everyone. This is my first post in these forums, but I have been lurking for the past few years looking for ideas on a new fire burning insert. When we moved into our current house there was an existing Squire wood insert in the fireplace. It looks like it had been well used, but not well maintained. I am not sure on the exact manufacture date or model of the Squire, but I know it is the "bigger one". We had a chimney sweep come out a few years back to clean and inspect the chimney before we used it. He carried out over three 5 gallon buckets of creosote. There was apparently a chimney fire in there at one time, so he actually had to break out the masonry flue to finish the cleaning. He told us the existing clay liner is shot and would need to be replaced.

A bit of info on the house. It is a ranch with a full finished basement built in 1977. Total sq ft is around 3000 (both floors). The fireplace is in the basement on the east side of the house with an exposed brick chimney that is around 24' tall. The flue tiles are 13" x 13" clay. The firebox opening is roughly 40"w x 25" tall x 21" deep. The existing insert has a very large trim kit to cover the large opening. The fireplace also has the "heatilator" vents in the four corners of the firebox as well. There is a cold air return vent for the HVAC in the ceiling of the basement that sits right above the fireplace. My hope was to run the fan only on the HVAC unit to circulate warm air through the house.

I have started looking into new inserts when I found a couple of threads on the old Squire units. I am now wondering if I even need to replace it. Would it be better to refurb my existing unit? I know the door gaskets will need to be replaced, but what other items are typical? I would need a new SS flue liner no matter if I went new or kept my old unit, so that is a known cost. From what I have read, the Squire uses an 8" flue, which seems to be one of the more common sizes even on newer units. I would also be building/installing some kind of blocking plate to place at the bottom of the chimney. I hear that Squires are pretty good units (my parents still are using the one in their house that is over 30 years old) and did well with a catalytic unit from Nu-Tec (can't find much info on these though).

Just on a side note, a couple of new inserts I was looking at locally at a Lopi Freedom Bay (non cat), and a Buck model 91 (cat model).

Feel free to comment on any of this. I am just trying to figure out which road to take. Thanks!

 

[firefighterjake]

Hello everyone. This is my first post in these forums, but I have been lurking for the past few years looking for ideas on a new fire burning insert. Well then . . . first off . . . here's the official welcome as a member . . . no need to be shy . . . feel free to post away whenever and wherever the mood strikes you . .. or if you have a question. When we moved into our current house there was an existing Squire wood insert in the fireplace. It looks like it had been well used, but not well maintained. I am not sure on the exact manufacture date or model of the Squire, but I know it is the "bigger one". We had a chimney sweep come out a few years back to clean and inspect the chimney before we used it. He carried out over three 5 gallon buckets of creosote. There was apparently a chimney fire in there at one time, so he actually had to break out the masonry flue to finish the cleaning. He told us the existing clay liner is shot and would need to be replaced. Egads . . . that's a lot of creosote . . . I suspect you will do much, much better . . . and rest better at night knowing you have a new chimney.

A bit of info on the house. It is a ranch with a full finished basement built in 1977. Total sq ft is around 3000 (both floors). The fireplace is in the basement on the east side of the house with an exposed brick chimney that is around 24' tall. The flue tiles are 13" x 13" clay. The firebox opening is roughly 40"w x 25" tall x 21" deep. The existing insert has a very large trim kit to cover the large opening. The fireplace also has the "heatilator" vents in the four corners of the firebox as well. There is a cold air return vent for the HVAC in the ceiling of the basement that sits right above the fireplace. My hope was to run the fan only on the HVAC unit to circulate warm air through the house. If memory serves me right a few folks have tried using HVAC to move the heat . . . and it seems as though there have been mixed results with most not being all that happy with the results. As you probably know from reading here . . . basement installs can sometimes be a challenge . . . and may not be ideal . . . not that they are a deal breaker . . . just some folks have problems.

I have started looking into new inserts when I found a couple of threads on the old Squire units. I am now wondering if I even need to replace it. Would it be better to refurb my existing unit? I know the door gaskets will need to be replaced, but what other items are typical? I would need a new SS flue liner no matter if I went new or kept my old unit, so that is a known cost. From what I have read, the Squire uses an 8" flue, which seems to be one of the more common sizes even on newer units. Actually I suspect you'll find that most newer units have the 6 inch flues since the 8 inch flue seems to be not as common these days. I would also be building/installing some kind of blocking plate to place at the bottom of the chimney. Definitely want to use the blocking plate . . . seems to make a big difference with folks who have inserts. I hear that Squires are pretty good units (my parents still are using the one in their house that is over 30 years old) and did well with a catalytic unit from Nu-Tec (can't find much info on these though).

Just on a side note, a couple of new inserts I was looking at locally at a Lopi Freedom Bay (non cat), and a Buck model 91 (cat model).

Feel free to comment on any of this. I am just trying to figure out which road to take. I can't really comment on the Squire model . . . my own guess is that if it still works and is an EPA unit it may be worth keeping . . . if not an EPA unit I would look at either one of the two you inserts you have seen . . . folks seem pretty happy with both of those companies.Thanks!

 

[zzr7ky]

Hi -

I'm more inclined to put a stove in the fireplace opening, and not have the fan or cleaning issues of and insert myself. However my Grandmother who's in her 80's is a big fan of inserts... Make up your own mind.

I would look at units you like, EPA units, new or used. Also price liners. Newer stoves may take 6" liner. I was able to install 6" rigid myself and it saved a good deal of money. I get a pint or so from the chmney at the end of the season.

Is there room for a stove oin the first floor near the existing flue?

 

[LYHTSPD]

Hi -

I'm more inclined to put a stove in the fireplace opening, and not have the fan or cleaning issues of and insert myself. However my Grandmother who's in her 80's is a big fan of inserts... Make up your own mind.

I would look at units you like, EPA units, new or used. Also price liners. Newer stoves may take 6" liner. I was able to install 6" rigid myself and it saved a good deal of money. I get a pint or so from the chmney at the end of the season.

Is there room for a stove oin the first floor near the existing flue?

On the first floor, the existing flue runs right next to two bedrooms. From what I understand, it is against code to put a fire heating device in a bedroom.

As far as liners go, I had planned on doing it myself with a flexible SS liner. I guess the chimney sweep said that there is an "unusual" jog that the liner makes about 6 feet above the smoke shelf. My guess is that this is where the liner transfers from the interior of the house to the exterior of the house. The Buck model 91 says it takes an 8" liner, where the Lopi takes a 6".

I doubt that the existing Squire insert is anything near EPA approved, since it is probably an early 80's model.