Respiratory Dangers from Wood Smoke

[Bad LP]

If I had to live with so much paranoia over woodstove smoke I wouldn't burn it. The environmental exposures in day to day life are much more challenging.

Wonder what a plastic bubble costs.

 

[NHcpa]

Added twist on wood smoke... I am allergic to beech, oak, and pine. With my top loader, I occasionally get a whaf of smoke from oak or beech and depending, it brings on the allergies...

 

[Woody Stover]

Wonder what a plastic bubble costs.

Oh, you don't want that. I heard somewhere that we're all walking around with about 5 lbs. of various plastic compounds in our bodies. That can't be good...unless you aspire to be a lab rat in a cancer experiment.

 

[bholler]

I think wood smoke is probably as dangerous as tobacco smoke the difference is the ammount of exposure. If your stove and chimney are set up right you should have a tiny amount of exposure to wood smoke. And no 70% of the smoke that goes out does not come back in i would be surprised if it was anywhere near 1%

 

[newatthis]

I think the OP raises a good question. Obviously, none of us want smoke in the house. I had posted about my trouble getting fires started in our Oslo, and thanks to the feedback, realized that using multiple wads of newspaper was worsening, not helping, the smoke problem. We were starting to joke about developing "Wood Burner's COPD." We were joking, but really, I was getting concerned about it.

Problem is much improved now that I have invested in some firestarters- I got Fatwood and Supercedars, and am just now finding how much easier/quicker it is to start, with far less smoke.

Parallax, is the problem you are having from getting the fire started, opening the door to reload, from a cloud of smoke around the outside of your house, or something else?

 

[kennyp2339]

Parallax, wow thank you for the informative post, I didn't realize that wood smoke from a sealed unit was so dangerous, I wonder if civilization from BC times knew how dangerous everything with wood smoke was, humanity is a stake here.

 

[jatoxico]

I think the OP raises a good question.

I agree, it's incorrect to assume wood smoke poses no danger and would foolish to ignore a situation that was leading to excessive exposure. That's not paranoia it's prudence.

Don't need the anti-wood kooks exaggerating the issue either.

 

[kennyp2339]

× 27

My grandfather lived a good life to 83. Worked outdoors until he was 80. Ate everything you shouldn't. Smoked Luckies but quit. Frankly I've seen people live into their 90s with no quality of life at all but by God they were 90! If you have problems with wood burning by all means take whatever protective measures you feel you need to within your own sphere but kindly leave me to mine.

And ladies and gentlemen that's AMERICA

 

[bholler]

Also the idea that people used to die really young ie around 40 is a myth. Do some real research into it and you will see that lots of people lived to well beyond 60. Many cases of people living into their 70s and even 80s and beyond. It was about hygiene and a active life style. The more "well off" you were the longer you lived closer to todays average. Modern medicine has Only had a small impact in longevity in the grand scheme of things. If the average person in the medieval ages had better hygiene they probably would outlive the average person today.
Look around, it is still very common for people to die in their 60s and 70s.

Not sure where you are getting that info yes there were people that lived to be fairly old but the average life expectancy is much higher now it has been slowly growing since they started paying attention to it.

 

[rdust]

Not a myth exactly, just a statistic that's easy to misinterpret. The 40 year life expectancy was driven down largely by child & infant mortality. There were still plenty of people living to 70s & 80s+.

My 2 cents is that some of the respiratory/breathing issue in my family IMPROVED after the wood stove compared to a older forced air system. I still don't humidify in any way, that would help even more...

I was going to post the same thing about the child/infant mortality rate bringing down the "average".

 

[Typ0]

Seems the question then is where are the measurements taken from normal breathing level or up in the atmosphere?

I had smoke in my house when my stove wasn't running properly. Made an adjustment to the fire bricks and no more smoke--an occasional tiny puff because I opened the door too fast.

If you really are concerned why are you asking a bunch of wood burning pundits this question anyway? People ask questions to the folk that will give them the answers they want to hear usually.

The reports I have read concur that air pollution levels inside the home will generally be 50-70% of the outdoor concentrations.

So if your outdoor concentration of wood smoke particles is 25 micrograms per cubic meter you can look for 12.5 to 17.5 mcg per cubic meter indoors, even in homes with no woodstove. Not 70% of all the smoke coming out the stack, rather 70% of the concentration found in the house lot or neighborhood as a whole.

I do run a couple HEPA filters inside my house. My wife is asthmatic enough that I can't run the ones with an ozone generating stage.

My outdoor PM2.5 air quality this winter is running pretty much 20-30 mcg per cubic meter day in and day out, I am running a large HEPA filter for 300sqft and a smaller one rated for 85sqft, both on the 1200sqft upper level of my house that also has the stove in it. My wife and I can both feel the difference with the filters running. I don't know my indoor PM2.5 concentration.

My take on the PM2.5 reports is we know its bad, but we aren't sure how bad. No one is touting it as nutritious or causing weight loss. I think guessing the effect of PM2.5 on a single kid is a fool's errand, but we have enough data to look at populations and conclude that less is better for the population cohort.

 

[rdust]

The way I look at it I've inhaled more smoke hanging around an outdoor fire in my life than I'll ever inhale from my wood stove running.

I used to be a smoker and I can tell you smoking cigarettes was a lot worse for my breathing than having a wood stove in my house. I used to have regular asthma attacks when I smoked and haven't had one in the 10+ years I've been a non smoker. I don't even carry an inhaler with me anymore.

If I was that concerned about the smoke I would remove the stove. Maybe you can have the inside air quality checked before deciding to do that.

 

[begreen]

This really should be a non-issue. We rarely get smoke in the house. My wife has a very sensitive nose and is very quick to notice wood smoke. She doesn't like it. Usually the only time I get any whiff of smoke in the house is on a balky startup when I am blowing on the fire to get it going. That is very uncommon. It only happens if I use newspaper for starting and too large kindling. It doesn't happen at all when burning 24/7 or when using a SuperCedar chunk to start the fire.

 

[rideau]

I believe that if you are burning an EPA stove properly, then you have little to fear about exposure to wood smoke.

Most of my life, I lived in the NYC metropolitan area. My Dad used to say that living in NY was like smoking two packs of cigarettes a day. I'd be far more concerned about the general air quality in the Seattle area than in the particulate matter coming from a properly burning EPA stove. I wouldn't be surprised if you get more toxic exposure from the VOG from the volcano on the Big Island spewing for twenty some years than you get from your own personal wood smoke production.
I do have to say that I would not be burning a Blaze King on low and slow if I were worried about this issue. Everyone who owns one says that on low the stove is black, and many say visible smoke comes out the chimney. Burn your BK so that the glass stays clean, and you will likely have a slight improvement in particulate emission.

Side note, in my family, on both sides, life expectancy was pretty high. Many in each generation lived well into their 90's, healthy, active, with all their marbles. My maternal grandmother died at over 100, my mother is 91 and sharp as a whistle. My great-grandfather lived to 94, my fraternal grandmother died in her 90s. Life expectancy was shorter, no question. You got a bad infection, you likely died. It took you twice as long or more to get emergency medical care just because of the difference in transportation, maybe you died. Doesn't necessarily mean people are inherently healthier now than 100 years ago. Don't think they are. Except for the eradication in some of the world of malnutrition.

 

[rdust]

I do have to say that I would not be burning a Blaze King on low and slow if I were worried about this issue. Everyone who owns one says that on low the stove is black, and many say visible smoke comes out the chimney. Burn your BK so that the glass stays clean, and you will likely have a slight improvement in particulate emission.

Obviously not the end all be all but when my stove is on low it seems to be the cleanest from looking at the stack. I get occasional light smoke when the stat opens up and flames come to life in the stove.

 

[alforit]

Obviously not the end all be all but when my stove is on low it seems to be the cleanest from looking at the stack. I get occasional light smoke when the stat opens up and flames come to life in the stove.

+ 1

Parallax , we need to figure out what's going on with your stove. I got a few ideas after reading about your situation I will post later.....

And you don't have to worry about the air quality in the Seattle area ...... Its just fine

 

[begreen]

And you don't have to worry about the air quality in the Seattle area ...... Its just fine

Well, almost.

 

[saskwoodburner]

All you can do is mitigate your risks as best you can. If you look hard enough, life is dangerous, and it eventually kills us. There's no way 70 % of your smoke is working it's way back in, unless it's plumbed directly to your houses intake/make up air. Figure out how to not get smoke in the house and you're golden.

 

[Wood Duck]

I think parallax raises a good question, and I wouldn't want my baby to live in a house that always smells of wood smoke. Inhaling smoke all the time can't be good for you, even if people have been exposed to smoke for eons.

Rather than worry about the danger of smoke, I'd try to eliminate the smoke from the house. The smoke should be going out the flue leaving no smell and no smoke inside.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Added twist on wood smoke... I am allergic to beech, oak, and pine. With my top loader, I occasionally get a whaf of smoke from oak or beech and depending, it brings on the allergies...

What kind of allergy, just curiously? I've developed an allergy to, it seems, the combination of dust/dust mites and wood smoke (runny nose, perpetual violent sneezing, etc.) One or the other by itself is no problem, but if the place is too dusty and it's heating season, hoo-boy. (I'm a crappy housekeeper...)

 

[NHcpa]

What kind of allergy, just curiously? I've developed an allergy to, it seems, the combination of dust/dust mites and wood smoke (runny nose, perpetual violent sneezing, etc.) One or the other by itself is no problem, but if the place is too dusty and it's heating season, hoo-boy. (I'm a crappy housekeeper...)

Did the "scratch test" years ago for spring/fall allergies. The trees I mentioned, came up as positive for allergies. I think I said, beech, but meant birch. Between the birch and oak, it sometimes gets to me when burning. No big deal, but for those complaining of wood smoke, these are triggers. For those suffering allergies, let me give you some solid advice... 25 years plus for prescriptions, I finally went to a ENT specialist, come to find out, I had a double deviated septum. The Dr stated that at sometime in my life, I suffered a broken nose. I think I was about 9 (circa 60's) and got nailed with a frisbee to the nose and cheekbone. I think I broke my nose then because I could actually see me cheekbone as it was so swollen. Anyways, the surgery for the deviated septum was a total suck as I was in so much pain...but this was one of those events (surgery) I regret not having done years ago.

 

[blueguy]

Obviously not the end all be all but when my stove is on low it seems to be the cleanest from looking at the stack. I get occasional light smoke when the stat opens up and flames come to life in the stove.

+ 2. On low and slow, I get no visible smoke from the stack once the load is settled in.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Did the "scratch test" years ago for spring/fall allergies. The trees I mentioned, came up as positive for allergies. I think I said, beech, but meant birch. Between the birch and oak, it sometimes gets to me when burning. No big deal, but for those complaining of wood smoke, these are triggers. For those suffering allergies, let me give you some solid advice... 25 years plus for prescriptions, I finally went to a ENT specialist, come to find out, I had a double deviated septum. The Dr stated that at sometime in my life, I suffered a broken nose. I think I was about 9 (circa 60's) and got nailed with a frisbee to the nose and cheekbone. I think I broke my nose then because I could actually see me cheekbone as it was so swollen. Anyways, the surgery for the deviated septum was a total suck as I was in so much pain...but this was one of those events (surgery) I regret not having done years ago.

Wow. Did getting the nose fixed make a big difference in your allergy symptoms?

I've never had an allergy to anything in my life (I'm about your age), not even to poison ivy, which I've inadvertently walked barefoot through a couple times over the years, until this dust/wood smoke thing kicked up big-time last year. I just thought I had a cold initially, something I haven't had in a couple decades. I finally figured out what the triggers were for my rhinitis, but after minimizing those, I still had a bit of a problem. Nasacort, which is for non-histamine allergies, has pretty much solved what remains.

Interesting that burning the things you're allergic to gives you some of the same reaction. I'm sorry it turned out to be birch and not beech (makes more sense), though, because I burn a lot of beech and it does seem to me my reaction flares up a bit more with it. It's a great firewood, but it does have a nasty smell.

Allergies, as I say, are a whole new world to me!

 

[NHcpa]

Having the surgery was a game changer. Always had 100% blockage in one nostril and 50% at best in the other. Had the surgery about 8 yrs ago and to this day I still breath through my mouth because it's been a lifetime of nasal blockage. interesting you mention poison Ivey, this was never an issue until after mowing a field full of of it since 1995 when we moved. I now have no tolerance to it about 3 or so years ago (it's in my system and no longer takes much to activate).

 

[gyrfalcon]

Having the surgery was a game changer. Always had 100% blockage in one nostril and 50% at best in the other. Had the surgery about 8 yrs ago and to this day I still breath through my mouth because it's been a lifetime of nasal blockage. interesting you mention poison Ivey, this was never an issue until after mowing a field full of of it since 1995 when we moved. I now have no tolerance to it about 3 or so years ago (it's in my system and no longer takes much to activate).

Boy, it's amazing what we put up with when we don't realize we don't have to. What a relief it must have been to you.

I've always been told one can develop poison ivy reaction if one has been exposed to it a lot, so despite my seeming immunity to it, I'm as careful as I can be to keep my distance from it. I'm just less likely to notice it when it's mixed in with other plants than somebody who's had a bad reaction to it. Mowing a whole field full of it-- man, I can only imagine!