Returning VC Defiant CAT; Stove Replacement Options

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Gridlock

Member
Feb 13, 2010
223
New Paltz, NY
I've had some issues with a new VC Defiant CAT stove that was installed new in January of this year. The stove just seems very difficult to control; I've had both back-puffing and overfire problems. The stove seems to work great for a while, then suddenly back-puffs filling the house with a smokey smell. I'm using the same wood I used with my previous Avalon Olympic which didn't have any such issues, and I tested the wood with a moisture meter; most of the wood is between 10 and 16% moisture. I've tried many different loading/burning.adjusting tweaks, but can't get it to work properly without a lot of baby-sitting. It's also very difficult to get any direct support from Vermont Castings. I spoke to the sweep who installed it; he will check a few things, but will give me my money back if nothing seems apparantly wrong.

So, I will probably be looking for a new stove and need some opinions. I need a large stove, as the area is about 2,500 sq ft, two floors with an open ceiling, lots of windows, and somewhat leaky. I do like the looks of the Defiant and need something that produces at least as much heat, but preferably more. I prefer the look of cast iron, but will also consider soapstone. I don't particularly like the look of steel. I need the stove to burn long, as I load it in the morning around 8:00am, and don't get back until around 7:00pm. I prefer either top or side (preferably right side) loading. Most importantly, it must be relatively easy to control. I don't care about the combustion technology (CAT vs Non-CAT as long as burn times are long and the stove is easy to control). The stove will be free standing in front of a fireplace (I have plenty of clearance).

So far these are possible options:

Jotul F 600
Hearthstone Equinox
Hearthstone Mansfield

Anyone care to comment on the above stoves? Any other recommendations? I wish that Woodstock already had their larger stove ready, but they mentioned that it won't be for another year.

Thanks!
 
Gridlock said:
So far these are possible options:

Jotul F 600
Hearthstone Equinox
Hearthstone Mansfield

Anyone care to comment on the above stoves? Any other recommendations? I wish that Woodstock already had their larger stove ready, but they mentioned that it won't be for another year.

Thanks!


All three are great choices. I would go for the F600 or the Equinox because I like having the additional capacity for the really cold days. You might also want to look at the Pacific Energy T6 which is rated for 3,000 sq ft.
 
BrowningBAR said:
All three are great choices. I would go for the F600 or the Equinox because I like having the additional capacity for the really cold days. You might also want to look at the Pacific Energy T6 which is also rated for 3,000 sq ft.
Thanks for the response. I just looked at the T6; the problem with that stove is that the stove pipe exits on top; it needs to exhaust from the rear since there isn't enough room for the pipe to bend and go rearward into the existing chimney. The other problem might be it's depth; my hearth was designed to fit the depth of the VC Defiant, so can't get a stove that is much deeper.
 
Gridlock said:
BrowningBAR said:
All three are great choices. I would go for the F600 or the Equinox because I like having the additional capacity for the really cold days. You might also want to look at the Pacific Energy T6 which is also rated for 3,000 sq ft.
Thanks for the response. I just looked at the T6; the problem with that stove is that the stove pipe exits on top; it needs to exhaust from the rear since there isn't enough room for the pipe to bend and go rearward into the existing chimney. The other problem might be it's depth; my hearth was designed to fit the depth of the VC Defiant, so can't get a stove that is much deeper.

Than that will rule out the Equinox (about the same depth as the t6) and the Mansfield (top flue exit only). There isn't much of a difference between the depth of those three models, either:

T6 (font lip to back): 28.5"
Equinox (font lip to back): 27"
Mansfield (font lip to back): 29"
F600 (font lip to back): Undetermined. Jotul only measures depth from front to back of the legs, which measures 16". It does not measure from the front lip to the back of the stove which is several more inches. I would guess it would be 22-24" in depth.
 
BrowningBAR said:
Than that will rule out the Equinox (about the same depth as the t6) and the Mansfield (top flue exit only). There isn't much of a difference between the depth of those three models, either:

T6 (font lip to back): 28.5"
Equinox (font lip to back): 27"
Mansfield (font lip to back): 29"
F600 (font lip to back): Undetermined. Jotul only measures depth from front to back of the legs, which measures 16". It does not measure from front lip the back of the stove which is several more inches.
Yea, you're right, I just noticed that myself. I can push the stove back into the fireplace a bit, but aesthetically will suffer a bit. Will it be a little less effecient this way, if the entire stove is not outside the opening of the fireplace? The underside of the fireplace is completely sealed around the stove pipe with sheet-metal.

Another possible option is the Quadra-Fire Isle Royale. A few complaints about it concern the tapered firebox (narrower in back) and the burn tubes that get in the way of the top loading door.
 
Gridlock said:
BrowningBAR said:
Than that will rule out the Equinox (about the same depth as the t6) and the Mansfield (top flue exit only). There isn't much of a difference between the depth of those three models, either:

T6 (font lip to back): 28.5"
Equinox (font lip to back): 27"
Mansfield (font lip to back): 29"
F600 (font lip to back): Undetermined. Jotul only measures depth from front to back of the legs, which measures 16". It does not measure from front lip the back of the stove which is several more inches.
Yea, you're right, I just noticed that myself. I can push the stove back into the fireplace a bit, but aesthetically will suffer a bit. Will it be a little less effecient this way, if the entire stove is not outside the opening of the fireplace? The underside of the fireplace is completely sealed around the stove pipe with sheet-metal.

Another possible option is the Quadra-Fire Isle Royale. A few complaints about it concern the tapered firebox (narrower in back) and the burn tubes that get in the way of the top loading door.

A lot of people here have a lot of good things to say about the Isle Royale. Totally forgot about that one. In regards to the stove being pushed into the fireplace; there are conflicting opinions. Some say it works fine, others say that the stove doesn't spread the heat as well.
 
BrowningBAR said:
A lot of people here have a lot of good things to say about the Isle Royale. Totally forgot about that one. In regards to the stove being pushed into the fireplace; there are conflicting opinions. Some say it works fine, others say that the stove doesn't spread the heat as well.
Do you mean a lot of people here don't have a lot of good things to say about the Isle Royale? I thought that since you mentioned to forget about that stove.

I wouldn't be pushing the stove entirely into the fireplace, only about 6 inches or so. I just need to make sure there is enough space between the front of the stove and the edge of the hearth.
 
Gridlock said:
BrowningBAR said:
A lot of people here have a lot of good things to say about the Isle Royale. Totally forgot about that one. In regards to the stove being pushed into the fireplace; there are conflicting opinions. Some say it works fine, others say that the stove doesn't spread the heat as well.
Do you mean a lot of people here don't have a lot of good things to say about the Isle Royale? I thought that since you mentioned to forget about that stove.

I wouldn't be pushing the stove entirely into the fireplace, only about 6 inches or so. I just need to make sure there is enough space between the front of the stove and the edge of the hearth.

No a lot of people HAVE a lot of good things to say about the stove. I just forgot to list it.
 
If you can swing the 8" flue and 4k price go with the EQ, it's one big beautiful rock and should easily give you those long burn times and plenty of heat.
 
Todd said:
If you can swing the 8" flue and 4k price go with the EQ, it's one big beautiful rock and should easily give you those long burn times and plenty of heat.
Yeah, unfortunately, my flue is currently 6", so I'd have to redo that. The Equinox certainly is a beautiful looking stove (and mighty expensive as well!). What's strange though is I can't find a single review of that stove here on Hearth.com. Plenty of reviews for the Mansfield, but none for the Equinox.
 
Or extend the hearth. Not a lot of rear exit stoves with very big boxes. I too made the mistake of building a hearth to fit a particular stove.
 
Highbeam said:
Or extend the hearth. Not a lot of rear exit stoves with very big boxes. I too made the mistake of building a hearth to fit a particular stove.
In my case, I didn't want to extend the hearth any further since it already eats a portion of the room. The hearth was iniitially much less deep, as I had an Avalon Olympic insert, but extended it to work with the Defiant. So my choice would be to extend it about 6 inches further into the room, or let the back of it go into the fireplace 6 inches, which I'm a little concerned about aestetically. I have a feeling that the 6 inches inside the fireplace won't make a huge difference heat wise, as most of it would still be extended into the room, and the bottom of the fireplace around the stove pipe (which I'll have to replace with an 8" pipe) is completely sealed.
 
Gridlock said:
Todd said:
If you can swing the 8" flue and 4k price go with the EQ, it's one big beautiful rock and should easily give you those long burn times and plenty of heat.
Yeah, unfortunately, my flue is currently 6", so I'd have to redo that. The Equinox certainly is a beautiful looking stove (and mighty expensive as well!). What's strange though is I can't find a single review of that stove here on Hearth.com. Plenty of reviews for the Mansfield, but none for the Equinox.

The Mansfield is a top exit exhaust only, so that propably won't work either. I think the Firelight has the same sized fire box as your Defiant so it should heat similar.
 
What was the motivation to move from the Olympic to the Defiant? Seems like you might be asking a lot to heat the house you describe with 12 hour burn cycles especially given the flue restrictions. You might be better off with an add on furnace to do the majority of the heating and then a nice looking efficient fireplace for mood and some space heat.
 
SolarAndWood said:
What was the motivation to move from the Olympic to the Defiant? Seems like you might be asking a lot to heat the house you describe with 12 hour burn cycles especially given the flue restrictions. You might be better off with an add on furnace to do the majority of the heating and then a nice looking efficient fireplace for mood and some space heat.
The Olympic was an insert, the Defiant free standing in front of the fireplace. The Olympic wasn't producing as much heat as I would have liked, and on the advice of the chimney sweep, I traded the Olympic in for the Defiant. The Defiant does seem to produce significantly more heat than the Olympic insert when it works properly. The area I want to heat is the living room, but the house has an open floor plan, has lots of windows, and is somewhat leaky, so the stove has a big job to do.
 
Can you tap into the chimney above the fireplace opening? If so, that opens up choices. If not, I'd be looking at the Jotul F600 and the Quad Isle Royale.
 
BeGreen said:
Can you tap into the chimney above the fireplace opening? If so, that opens up choices. If not, I'd be looking at the Jotul F600 and the Quad Isle Royale.
I don't think I would want to tap into the chimney for aesthetic reasons. The chimney is large pieces of stone, so my guess is that it might not be so simple anyhow.

Those two stoves are high on my list; what do you think about the Hearthstone Equinox?
 
The Equinox sounds like a great stove from the reports here. One consideration might be whether a direct radiant heat is desired or a softer, more convective heat is a better fit. The Equinox would be more of the second option, the Quad and Jotul more of the first. All of these stove can put out a significant amount of btus when pressed to do so.
 
I would check into the Morso 3610.
A big, elegant cast-iron stove w/ plenty of room for wood.
Top or rear exit & a fairly thin profile for your narrow hearth.

P.S. - I can appreciate your hearth constraints, we have the same issues.
For us to expand our hearth could cost a pretty penny, more than just
looking for the right-fitting stove. Also, beware of hearth requirements
for Hearthstone stove - they require a very "beefy" hearth floor
(1-1/2" of cement board or equivalent).
 
Rob From Wisconsin said:
I would check into the Morso 3610.
A big, elegant cast-iron stove w/ plenty of room for wood.
Top or rear exit & a fairly thin profile for your narrow hearth.

P.S. - I can appreciate your hearth constraints, we have the same issues.
For us to expand our hearth could cost a pretty penny, more than just
looking for the right-fitting stove. Also, beware of hearth requirements
for Hearthstone stove - they require a very "beefy" hearth floor
(1-1/2" of cement board or equivalent).
Thanks for the suggestion about the Morso; unfortunately I'm not crazy about the looks.

I didn't realize about the hearth requirement for the Hearthstone stove. Right now I have a 3/4 inch stone slab over plywood; unfortunately it doesn't appear it will fit the bill.
 
BeGreen said:
The Equinox sounds like a great stove from the reports here. One consideration might be whether a direct radiant heat is desired or a softer, more convective heat is a better fit. The Equinox would be more of the second option, the Quad and Jotul more of the first. All of these stove can put out a significant amount of btus when pressed to do so.
I didn't realize there is a difference in the type of heat between the cast iron stoves and the Equinox. I thought if they are all installed in the same location and without any fan assistance, that the type of heat would be the same (i.e. radiant). I'm not sure I understand why the Equinox would be considered convective and not radiant.
 
Rob From Wisconsin said:
P.S. - I can appreciate your hearth constraints, we have the same issues.
For us to expand our hearth could cost a pretty penny, more than just
looking for the right-fitting stove. Also, beware of hearth requirements
for Hearthstone stove - they require a very "beefy" hearth floor
(1-1/2" of cement board or equivalent).
By the way, I do have room for the Equinox without modifying the hearth; the only problem being that since it is a deeper stove than the Defiant, I would need to put in in a position where the back of the stove sticks into the fireplace about 7 inches. It might look a little funny since the back legs will be inside the fireplace and not on the hearth, but at least I could make it work. The real problem seems to be the 'beefy' hearth floor.
 
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