Saw my father in law light up his 6 year old Jotul Kennebec last night....

[joefrompa]

So, I'm at home rocking my Lopi Republic 1750 for the past 3 weeks. I feel I've got a good handle on it, learning how to consistently start a good fire and all that. All my wood is provided by him - its ash, seasoned about 3 months. He's rocking ash seasoned about 5 months.

Nevertheless, I watched him start it up. He was distracted and laid down about 5-6 pieces of crumpled newspaper and some randomly pyramid-style kindling on top. Minimal serious wood in there.

Door shut, air control open. The entire time.

In less than 10 minutes, he had ROARING secondaries. They were air-washing his glass like there's no tomorrow. His stove top temp gauge (who knows how accurate) was reading 700-725 within 15 minutes, and based upon the fact that he had secondaries blasting the glass for almost 10 of those minutes, I kinda believe it. That being said, their thermostatically controlled fan didn't kick on till the fire was over 700 according to the stove top temp gauge, so I don't know how accurate it is.

Nonetheless, what the....he literally had an absolutely roaring fire within less than 10 minutes, with a shut door, no bypass damper adjustment like my Lopi, and not exactly a firebox stocked with super-sweet kindling precisely placed.

This morning, I decided to try the same thing. Crumpled newspaper, laid the kindling on top of that. Choice pieces, placed carefully. Took about 30 minutes to hit 550, my secondaries were weak until 25 minutes in.

Am I doing something wrong? Is he just the absolute best at starting fires? Is the Jotul Kennebec the rock-star of precision air control?

Joe

P.s. He gave me the kindling I was using and it was from the same pile.

 

[oldspark]

Does he have a lot better draft than you?

 

[begreen]

I have not seen a stove go from 0-700 in 15 minutes. Not saying it can't happen, but I think it is pretty unusual. It wouldn't surprise me if the thermometer is off by a bit. Maybe borrow it and put it side by side with yours on your stove? Is there a significant difference between installations as to flue height, insulation? Are both inserts located on the 1st floor of the house?

Each stove + flue system will have its own personality. There are different ways of routing the secondary air and different style secondary manifolds. The Lopi may need a bit more draw or heat to get burning robustly. Not a big deal really if your stove takes 5-10minutes more to get up to temp.

 

[joefrompa]

Both stoves located on the first floor of the house. His is located at the end of a family room where the masonry is contained within an enclosure (other side is the garage). Mine is an external chimney.

His liner is ~18-20' uninsulated. Mine is ~13' insulated.

If wet wood won't burn in the secondaries, ok, I can deal with that and assume that I just happen to be using wood with a higher moisture content. But i thought that the secondaries would roar given semi-dry wood and enough heat. I can GET the heat he's getting (takes me longer), but I can't get roaring secondaries like he's getting, or like Pagey's getting in his youtube video (seperate thread).

On the heating side....that was the thing to me. Stove top temps is one thing: I've got a jacketed stove and that's fair. But he had roaring, glass blasting secondaries in under 10 minutes.

And this wasn't like a fire built out of bio-bricks with 3 super-cedars lighting them up or something

Joe

 

[BrowningBAR]

Both stoves located on the first floor of the house. His is located at the end of a family room where the masonry is contained within an enclosure (other side is the garage). Mine is an external chimney.

His liner is ~18-20' uninsulated. Mine is ~13' insulated.

If wet wood won't burn in the secondaries, ok, I can deal with that and assume that I just happen to be using wood with a higher moisture content. But i thought that the secondaries would roar given semi-dry wood and enough heat. I can GET the heat he's getting (takes me longer), but I can't get roaring secondaries like he's getting, or like Pagey's getting in his youtube video (seperate thread).

On the heating side....that was the thing to me. Stove top temps is one thing: I've got a jacketed stove and that's fair. But he had roaring, glass blasting secondaries in under 10 minutes.

And this wasn't like a fire built out of bio-bricks with 3 super-cedars lighting them up or something

Joe

13' chimney seems short to me. Am I wrong?

 

[thewoodlands]

Both stoves located on the first floor of the house. His is located at the end of a family room where the masonry is contained within an enclosure (other side is the garage). Mine is an external chimney.

His liner is ~18-20' uninsulated. Mine is ~13' insulated.

If wet wood won't burn in the secondaries, ok, I can deal with that and assume that I just happen to be using wood with a higher moisture content. But i thought that the secondaries would roar given semi-dry wood and enough heat. I can GET the heat he's getting (takes me longer), but I can't get roaring secondaries like he's getting, or like Pagey's getting in his youtube video (seperate thread).

On the heating side....that was the thing to me. Stove top temps is one thing: I've got a jacketed stove and that's fair. But he had roaring, glass blasting secondaries in under 10 minutes.

And this wasn't like a fire built out of bio-bricks with 3 super-cedars lighting them up or something

Joe

13' chimney seems short to me. Am I wrong?

13' chimney is unlucky also.

zap

 

[Stephen in SoKY]

I have no input on your question.....but I have to ask: How does one go about getting their father in law to supply all their wood?

 

[maxed_out]

+1, draft.

 

[havermeyer]

I have no input on your question.....but I have to ask: How does one go about getting their father in law to supply all their wood?

BIG PLUS ONE HERE

Hahaha... let us know the secret!

 

[begreen]

+1, draft.

Yup, add a few feet onto that chimney and you should see a nice improvement.

 

[joefrompa]

My FIL lives on 1.5 acres that has roughly 100+ trees on it, mostly ash.

He identifies the targets he's willing to give away, cuts them into slabs with his chainsaw, then helps me load them up into a truck. He also sets aside kindling for me. He burns about 2 cords a year, and has given me about 1.5 cords of ash this year. He saves the best stuff for himself, but not by much, and he's very generous.

To quote him, "When I hear those geese start flying overhead, something snaps inside of me and I go outside and start chopping."

He doesn't really properly season wood, that's probably his only problem. He'll cut up big slabs and then stack them flat-on-flat about 7 feet tall in a row about 20 feet long, and then chop them up a few months before using it.

Also, he's said to me the following:

"Joe, if you ever rent, borrow, or use a splitter on the wood I give you - don't ask for anymore after that. You chop it with an axe."

"There's something much better about using newspaper and kindling rather than those firestarters. It feels right."

...

Joe

P.s. He's 60 years old, 5'8", and about 150 pounds of muscle. And he'll run me into the ground everyday of the week and then go push 36" rounds of ash up a 20% dirt incline for fun.

 

[argus66]

if its only seasoned 3 months he can keep it.

 

[tiber]

So here's an experiment to try - put only kindling in there and light that off. Fatwood, supercedar, newspaper, whatever. Point being just put stuff in there you know will take off like a rocket. Then post your observations.

If the stuff doesn't take off and just sort of burns as it does, then it's the draft (as in air intake). If it takes off, it's the wood. If it takes off slow but then starts to roll later, it's the chimney (you're waiting for the thermal mass of the stove).

 

[flyingpig]

+1 for draft, and probably character of the stove.

I don't have Repbublic, but I do have FPX33/Declaration from the same Lopi with 28' uninsulated chimney. I need to leave doors crack open for at least 20min to get enough draft (bypass open during this 20 min). So I guess Lopi may have smaller primary air intake in general compare with other.

Cheers.....Som

 

[joefrompa]

Tiber - Can you define "Takes off"

If you mean lights up quickly (5 minutes or less) into a fiery mass, then the kindling does that easily as long as the door is open (if the door is shut, it'll either light off very slowly or smolder).

It takes about 15-20 minutes of heating before my thermostatically controlled blower comes on. Even with a mass of fiery kindling. For me, that's a stove top temp of around 400 if it's still heating up, or sitting at 350 for about 5 minutes.

 

[joefrompa]

if its only seasoned 3 months he can keep it.

That's simply a matter of having bought this house 4 months ago and started collecting wood in September.

Next year, I'll have fully seasoned elm/maple/cherry/ash/pine.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

My FIL lives on 1.5 acres that has roughly 100+ trees on it, mostly ash.

He identifies the targets he's willing to give away, cuts them into slabs with his chainsaw, then helps me load them up into a truck. He also sets aside kindling for me. He burns about 2 cords a year, and has given me about 1.5 cords of ash this year. He saves the best stuff for himself, but not by much, and he's very generous.

To quote him, "When I hear those geese start flying overhead, something snaps inside of me and I go outside and start chopping."

He doesn't really properly season wood, that's probably his only problem. He'll cut up big slabs and then stack them flat-on-flat about 7 feet tall in a row about 20 feet long, and then chop them up a few months before using it.

Also, he's said to me the following:

"Joe, if you ever rent, borrow, or use a splitter on the wood I give you - don't ask for anymore after that. You chop it with an axe."

"There's something much better about using newspaper and kindling rather than those firestarters. It feels right."

Joe

P.s. He's 60 years old, 5'8", and about 150 pounds of muscle. And he'll run me into the ground everyday of the week and then go push 36" rounds of ash up a 20% dirt incline for fun.

Somewhere here things just do not add up at all.

Some crumbled up newspaper and kindling getting the stove that hot right away! Stove top temperature 700 or more degrees in 15 minutes. Unseasoned wood!!

Sorry, something just does not add up.

Also, the ability to get a fire going quickly does not mean all that much. Would it be that bad if it took you an extra 10-15 minutes to reach the same degree of heat? That is not much time when we are given 24 hours in each day. 10 minutes is like a flash.


I've burned a lot of ash over the years; both seasoned and unseasoned. I've helped many new wood burners and many old-time wood burners. I've had lots of practice. Well, my hat is off to your folks because I could not get those quick temperatures from unseasoned wood.....even ash.

Sorry, something just does not add up here.

 

[corey21]

My FIL lives on 1.5 acres that has roughly 100+ trees on it, mostly ash.

He identifies the targets he's willing to give away, cuts them into slabs with his chainsaw, then helps me load them up into a truck. He also sets aside kindling for me. He burns about 2 cords a year, and has given me about 1.5 cords of ash this year. He saves the best stuff for himself, but not by much, and he's very generous.

To quote him, "When I hear those geese start flying overhead, something snaps inside of me and I go outside and start chopping."

He doesn't really properly season wood, that's probably his only problem. He'll cut up big slabs and then stack them flat-on-flat about 7 feet tall in a row about 20 feet long, and then chop them up a few months before using it.

Also, he's said to me the following:

"Joe, if you ever rent, borrow, or use a splitter on the wood I give you - don't ask for anymore after that. You chop it with an axe."

"There's something much better about using newspaper and kindling rather than those firestarters. It feels right."

Joe

P.s. He's 60 years old, 5'8", and about 150 pounds of muscle. And he'll run me into the ground everyday of the week and then go push 36" rounds of ash up a 20% dirt incline for fun.

Somewhere here things just do not add up at all.

Some crumbled up newspaper and kindling getting the stove that hot right away! Stove top temperature 700 or more degrees in 15 minutes. Unseasoned wood!!

Sorry, something just does not add up.

Also, the ability to get a fire going quickly does not mean all that much. Would it be that bad if it took you an extra 10-15 minutes to reach the same degree of heat? That is not much time when we are given 24 hours in each day. 10 minutes is like a flash.


I've burned a lot of ash over the years; both seasoned and unseasoned. I've helped many new wood burners and many old-time wood burners. I've had lots of practice. Well, my hat is off to your folks because I could not get those quick temperatures from unseasoned wood.....even ash.

Sorry, something just does not add up here.

Backwoods is right something is off in this thread.

 

[ecocavalier02]

maybe he's saying his wood i only seasoned for a few months so you dont feel bad bout the wood he gives u :cheese: . lol maybe he has another stash of some 2 year dried ash and thats why its going up so fast. :cheese:

 

[joefrompa]

My wife and I sold our townhome and moved in with the in-laws for 6 weeks this summer (Mid-May to end of June). He had no split wood at that time. As a favor and in preparation of him giving me so much wood, I cut, split, and stacked about 1.5 cords of ash for him. This is the ash he is now using. I honestly think it's fully seasoned though....it had been cut into 12" thick slabs like a year before and then I split it small and had it stacked in an open area during the hottest months.

But yes, I think his stove top thermometer might be off. Because otherwise, his stove blower isn't turning on until the thing is well over 600 degrees. I'm going to take my thermometer over and see what happens.

 

[Pagey]

From a cold start, my blower won't kick on until the stove's been at 600F for about 10 minutes.

 

[oconnor]

I have not seen a stove go from 0-700 in 15 minutes. Not saying it can't happen, but I think it is pretty unusual. It wouldn't surprise me if the thermometer is off by a bit. Maybe borrow it and put it side by side with yours on your stove? Is there a significant difference between installations as to flue height, insulation? Are both inserts located on the 1st floor of the house?

Each stove + flue system will have its own personality. There are different ways of routing the secondary air and different style secondary manifolds. The Lopi may need a bit more draw or heat to get burning robustly. Not a big deal really if your stove takes 5-10minutes more to get up to temp.

Mine will hit 700 in under 15 mins if I load it with kindling - a little scary, cause if I;m not right on top of it, it can overfire real quick. On the Kennebec, my thermo is right on the spot the flames lick against before the gases head up the flu.

Mine also drafts really well - 24 feet straight up lined and insulated - that will certainly get the fire going quickly. My fire lighting experiment is linked in my signature block below if someone wants to try it - no super cedars, just birch bark.

 

[joefrompa]

From a cold start, my blower won't kick on until the stove's been at 600F for about 10 minutes.

Wow, really? My stove top thermometer is directly to the left of my damper bypass pull as far back against the wall as possible. My blower will kick on when the stove top temp reads 450, everytime. Heck, it'll start when it's sat at 350 for 5-10 minutes.

I've started to turn it off altogether and it does help with heat accumulation. I'm also wondering if the fact that I don't have a block-off plate on an external chimney is killing me....is all the heat, even with the jacketed box, having to heat up the external masonry before the stove will allow itself to get really hot?

Joe

 

[Pagey]

I actually like the fact that it won't kick on until 600 or so. From reloads, I've found that if it kicks on around 450-550, the stove won't push near as much heat out into the room. I turn the blower off before I reload now, and I let the stove top climb back to 600F for about 10 minutes before turning it back on. This will leave the stove cruising around 550F rather than 400-450F, and thus puts a lot more convection heat into the room.

 

[ROBERT F]

I have two liberty stoves, both with blowers. one I can start out with a small fire, build heat slowly cruise at around 400 stove top temp, and the blower kicks on when the BACK of the stove reaches temp. the other stove, the blower never seeemed to run all the time, or only if the stove was rippin. then found out that if I tap on the snap disc, it kicks on at lower temp. Point of story, they make different snap discs with different set point temps if you feel like altering the turn on temps!