Second Year Report--Unexpected

[firebroad]

This was the end of my second full year of burning. Having much better wood, I had NO brown stains on my glass--hurray! Fires started right up without a lot of coaxing, too.

Since it was a cooler season than last time, It seemed to take a lot more wood to warm the place up. I noticed about half way through that the door gasket was no longer tight (failed dollar test), so made a note to get that changed when I called the sweeps. Near the end of the burning season, I noticed a "clack" sound when I closed the door, and discovered the glass was loose on one corner, and that gasket was getting tatty, too.

I called the stove & chimney guys, they ordered new gaskets. When the guy came out, he found the chimney extremely dirty, but loose at least. Changed gaskets (promptly broke the glass).

Why did the firebox and glass stay immaculate while the chimney got filthy? Is it normal? Did the loose glass and other seal have anything to do with it? Also, I suggested changing the baffle gasket, since the other two had worn out, but they said it usually stays intact much longer, and that they would have to pull the insert to inspect it. What do you think?

 

[pen]

Loose is not necessarily bad. Not as good as brown and fluffy, but way better than black and stuck like paint to the chimney.

Did he tell you how much creosote he collected (volume)? How tall is that chimney again? Masonry chimney, SS liner, interior or exterior, 6 inch, SS double wall? (Sorry but I can't remember what your setup is anymore).

The leaks could have a negative impact on secondary combustion. Did you notice a visible difference in the fire at all? Were you running with the air control completely closed or open a wee bit, open a lot?

Did the sweep recommend more frequent cleanings? How much wood had you burned since it was last cleaned? Does your stove run 24/7 for weeks at a time, or do you have to start a fire from scratch in a cold stove often?

pen

 

[firebroad]

Single story house, so chimney is 30 feet or less?? Exterior. Stainless steel liner, 6 inch probably single wall.
Did burn more this year, nights and weekends. So yeah, a lot of cold starts, but previous year was the same. I tried to burn with the air down more this year, since the wood was drier. I usually get it going with with air wide open till the blower kicks in, then half way till the room temp comes up to comfort (about 66), then shut it down to either as far as it will go or just a bit open.
I have to admit, I only have them come once a year to clean. Obviously I cannot do it myself, so I just try to use good practices. I don't think these guys are big on giving reccomendations as to how often, they just come when you call 'em. I try to burn hot and dry, and throw in a kwikshot stick every so often to keep any creosote loose.
Oh, and I had two instances when I had a smouldering fire occur; I have a habit of loading the stove in the morning before going to work, and twice there were hidden hot coals that ignited the fire in a shut down stove. Came home to a box of ashes.

 

[Beer Belly]

I have a habit of loading the stove in the morning before going to work, and twice there were hidden hot coals that ignited the fire in a shut down stove. Came home to a box of ashes.

Been there a few times myself.

 

[pen]

Single story house, so chimney is 30 feet or less?? Exterior. Stainless steel liner, 6 inch probably single wall.
Did burn more this year, nights and weekends. So yeah, a lot of cold starts, but previous year was the same. I tried to burn with the air down more this year, since the wood was drier. I usually get it going with with air wide open till the blower kicks in, then half way till the room temp comes up to comfort (about 66), then shut it down to either as far as it will go or just a bit open.
I have to admit, I only have them come once a year to clean. Obviously I cannot do it myself, so I just try to use good practices. I don't think these guys are big on giving reccomendations as to how often, they just come when you call 'em. I try to burn hot and dry, and throw in a kwikshot stick every so often to keep any creosote loose.
Oh, and I had two instances when I had a smouldering fire occur; I have a habit of loading the stove in the morning before going to work, and twice there were hidden hot coals that ignited the fire in a shut down stove. Came home to a box of ashes.

First, does the liner have an insulation blanket? If not and you are concerned perhaps a pour down insulation like thermix could be added to help keep flue gasses warmer w/out pulling the liner out completely.

Cold starts don't help the problem, but with good insulation in the chimney around that liner, the problem should be minimal.

When you close the air down completely, do you get smoke out of the chimney? Does the stove temp drop much or will it continue to climb? If you can leave the air open, even just an 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch and not get an overfire and still keep the desired burn time then that may help if things are smouldering later in the burn from being completely shut down.

Loading the stove in the morning is a habit I'd get out of. Those two instances you mentioned there could have added a good bit of creosote to the chimney.

With these suggestions and new door gaskets in place, I think you'll be about as clean as you can be. Also, what sort of temps do you run on the stove top when actively burning?

pen

 

[firebroad]

There is no insulation around the liner, but Les told me he stuffed "A lot of rock wool down there", so I suppose he basically plugged it up around the top. I said I would have liked to have a block-off plate, and they told me it would be expensive and labor intensive at this point. I will suggest the pour-down option.
When I close the air down, I have not noticed a lot of smoke. generally, if I see the flames disappearing, I nudge it open some more. I don't think I have ever had really high temps, but I am not sure, as the insert makes it difficult to get a good reading. When I am the laser back into the slot toward what I perceive to be the stove pipe, I have never seen a temp much higher than 350. Occasionally it might top 450, but as I say, it is difficult to find a spot that won't reflect back at me. If I aim into the glass, it can be 600 or more. The top of the insert that projects into the room is coated with shiny enamel, and I can touch it without getting burned, as long as I don't keep my hand there. Of course, the colder the weather, the cooler the stove.
I really appreciate all of your suggestions. Sometimes I am afraid to ask things for fear of being ridiculed for my ignorance.

 

[firebroad]

UPDATE--
Just called Millers, the lady looked up my records. Seems that Les DID pour Thermix down the sides; They stuffed the wool in the bottom, poured the mix, then stuffed more around the top. I must have missed that when I was watching them, and as I had no clue about stoves until I got onto this site, I wouldn't even have asked what they did.

 

[PapaDave]

That's good news Sue.
Re: the potential ridicule. If it comes, ignore it. One of the mods will nudge the offender.
Most around here wouldn't do that anyway.
There have been a few who've been banned for bad behaviour.
I'll let those with more knowledge than I (there's a LOT of 'em) help with this.
Just wanted to give some encouragement.

 

[Oldhippie]

Some people have a real life and don't spend a lot of time worrying the every detail of what goes on inside their woodstoves.. the there are the rest of us.

 

[dyerkutn]

Loading the stove in the morning is a habit I'd get out of.

Pen-I am puzzled by this--I have read a number of threads with people comparing their "burn times" and quite a number said they loaded up in the morning, went to work and then could relight from the hot coals when they got home. Same with overnight. Are you saying this is not a good idea?

I ask because that is one thing I was hoping to do next winter with my new bigger stove so I could keep my thermostat off but still come back to a warmish house.

 

[ScotO]

Sue, I think by the sounds of it you are doing much better than most woodburners. We all get some flaky stuff out of the chimney, and as Pen stated at least it wasn't that goopy, black tar. The fact that your glass is clean tells us that you are burning properly seasoned wood, and you aren't choking it down too far as some do. Almost sounds to me like your chimney is getting cooler, and with all those cold starts, I'd say that is where the condensation is coming from...plus the loading the "assumed" cold stove with splits, and it smoldering in there until it ignites. ...cold starts will do that to a chimney, we all have been there.

By the sounds of it, you are doing quite well! Each year, you live and learn a little more. Keep up the good work!

 

[ScotO]

Pen-I am puzzled by this--I have read a number of threads with people comparing their "burn times" and quite a number said they loaded up in the morning, went to work and then could relight from the hot coals when they got home. Same with overnight. Are you saying this is not a good idea?

I ask because that is one thing I was hoping to do next winter with my new bigger stove so I could keep my thermostat off but still come back to a warmish house.

I think what he means is loading an "assumed" cold stove (one that has no coals in it), and realizing that it DID have some coals in it which ignited a fire without anyone attending it. The stove, having a load of wood with a couple of hot coals in it, would probably ignite eventually, but it'd be smoldering for quite some time until it actually ignited.....that could cause excess creosote.

 

[dyerkutn]

I think what he means is loading an "assumed" cold stove

oh--like just loading to be ready for later but not actually starting the fire?

 

[ScotO]

oh--like just loading to be ready for later but not actually starting the fire?

Exactly!

 

[dyerkutn]

Exactly!

thanks Scott--so much to learn!

 

[ScotO]

thanks Scott--so much to learn!

No problem, friend. We've all been here. Lots of good people here to help you along.......

 

[pen]

Mow one yard, wash two cars, comb one huge white dog, and look what I miss.

Thanks Scott

pen

 

[ScotO]

Mow one yard, wash two cars, comb one huge white dog, and look what I miss.

Thanks Scott

pen

I got yer back, bro!!

 

[tomahawk]

It took me probably 2-3 years to really get the hang of how the relationship was going to work between me and my stove. Trying to figure out how much to not get it too hot at night, when extra paper was needed because of a cold pipe, burn times, wood types, etc. I now have it down to an almost exact science - almost. Funny how relationships work.

 

[firebroad]

Well, It looks like I am probably doing it okay. I will change my method and wait until I am home before loading the stove. Even though it has only happened twice this last winter, I certainly don't want anything gunked up. A few extra minutes to load in the evening won't kill me(brr)!
I do have to give Thomas another plug for his SuperCedars; they are probably the best fast starters I have used. I still have a few cut-up firelogs I need to use up, but those SuperCedars are the BOMB. One quarter puck will get it going no matter what.

 

[pen]

Do the firebricks in the unit stay nice and clean or are they quite black / dirty?

If they aren't staying nice and white, I generally think closing the air down completely is a bit too much for many stoves/inserts and perhaps try leaving that air open just a smidge, especially if the weather is warmer.

Wish we know how much of the stuff he actually collected. Never had any accumulation on the cap screen?

How many cords did you go through last winter?

Inserts are a bit tough in that it is so hard to measure temps accurately sometimes.

I'm looking forward to seeing if the new gaskets make any difference in how the fire behaves for you.

 

[firebroad]

The firebrick stays pretty clean, the side bricks are pristine. However, I noticed that the cast iron between the cracks was kind of black
I think there was some accumulation on the screen, but it was not clogged. When they sweep it down, they are sucking it up from the bottom, so they don't really know, I guess. Next year I will request they give me guesstimate.