Should towns adopt cleaner burning regulations? Suggestions about restricting Outdoor Furnaces/boile

[begreen]

WAC 173-433-110
Opacity standards.

(1) A person shall not cause or allow emission of a smoke plume from any solid fuel burning device to exceed an average of twenty percent opacity for six consecutive minutes in any one-hour period.

(2) Statewide opacity standard. An authority shall not adopt or enforce an opacity level for solid fuel burning devices that is more stringent than the statewide standard.

(3) Test method and procedures. Methods and procedures specified by the EPA in "40 CFR 60 Appendix A reference method 9 - VISUAL DETERMINATION OF THE OPACITY OF EMISSIONS FROM STATIONARY SOURCES" as amended through July 1, 1990, shall be used to determine compliance with subsection (1) of this section.

(4) Enforcement. Smoke visible from a chimney, flue or exhaust duct in excess of the opacity standard shall constitute prima facie evidence of unlawful operation of an applicable solid fuel burning device. This presumption may be refuted by demonstration that the smoke was not caused by an applicable solid fuel burning device. The provisions of this requirement shall:

(a) Be enforceable on a complaint basis.

(b) Not apply during the starting of a new fire for a period not to exceed twenty minutes in any four-hour period.

(5) Education. Any person or retailer providing information on the operation of solid fuel burning devices, such as brochures, demonstrations, and public education programs, should include information that opacity levels of ten percent or less are attainable through proper operation.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=173-433-110
http://www.pscleanair.org/actions/woodstoves/law.aspx

 

[Eric Johnson]

That's probably the most equitable way to get the job done in theory, BG, but I doubt that the majority of wood-burning appliances in use today, including some stoves that meet the EPA regs, would be in compliance 100 percent of the time. As such, you'd basically open the door for selective enforcement, which would make it inequitable in practice.

It doesn't take much imagination to picture all the OWB guys firing their units up hard at night and letting them coast during the day. Kind of reminds me when I lived in Kobe, Japan in the early '70s. Kobe Steel had a big mill right down on the waterfront, but they only seemed to crank up the furnaces at night. Those of us who lived at the higher elevations could see what was going on--and they probably weren't fooling anybody down in the city, either.

 

[BrotherBart]

Ah so! Sounds like a certain stealth woodburner living in Budburbia.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Truth be told, BB, I've been known to do that myself.

 

[mikeathens]

You are all missing an important point: the opacity regs cited by BeGreen were intended for industrial emitters of particulate matter (PM)...blast furnaces, large boilers buring coal, pickle lines, slag dumping operations, quarries, etc.; not small outdoor boilers. In fact, any wood burning boiler rated less than 1 MMBtu/hr is exempt. USEPA did not just "exempt" them either - the industry developed them to meet (or avoid) existing regulations. 1 MMBtu/hr is a sizeable boiler, way too large to heat a home, considering most of our wood stoves are 80,000 Btu/hr or less.

Look at it like the whole cell phone while driving thing - there was no way to anticipate the development of the cell phone, nor was there a way to anticipate the number of idiots that would be trying to talk while driving and causing accidents (by the way I don't own one of the things). We have all seen local regulations pop up as a result.

I believe that USEPA is developing standards specifically for these units. Until then, it will be up to local health departments and other local government entities to regulate and/or prohibit them. development of regs are not easy, either. It sounds good to say "200 feet from prop line and 500 feet from road" or whatever, but there has to bea a basis for this - if not, the first court case will deem the reg unconstitutional. Probably the best way to take care of the problem is through existing nuisance laws and public safety laws.

Guess I should clarify: those were WA regs, not sure if they apply to the boilers or not. If they do, WA has it under control. National and Ohio regs are the way I stated above. Different states may have the outddor wood boilers covered, not Ohio, not the majority of other states. Write letters to state officials, local HD, etc if they are a problem. The feds will most likely adopt industry-wide standars, states can be more restrictive...

 

[Eric Johnson]

That's an excellent point, Mike. I was trying to figure out how you'd measure opacity from a 6" chimney. And how would steam on a really cold day figure into the opacity calculation? Like you said, I've only heard that term used in reference to industrial wood-fired boilers.

I think everyone by now realizes that it was a mistake not to implement EPA standards on all wood-burning appliances when they did it to woodstoves. Now, as you point out, it's a little late to fix what's already been installed. I know of one business that has at least 4 OWBs installed to heat its buildings and shops. Why don't they just get a decent industrial wood-fired boiler? Basically because four smaller, non-pressurized OWBs don't require the licensing and licensed operator that one bigger one would. That's what you call beating the system.

 

[mikeathens]

That's an excellent point, Mike. I was trying to figure out how you'd measure opacity from a 6" chimney. And how would steam on a really cold day figure into the opacity calculation? Like you said, I've only heard that term used in reference to industrial wood-fired boilers.

I think everyone by now realizes that it was a mistake not to implement EPA standards on all wood-burning appliances when they did it to woodstoves. Now, as you point out, it's a little late to fix what's already been installed. I know of one business that has at least 4 OWBs installed to heat its buildings and shops. Why don't they just get a decent industrial wood-fired boiler? Basically because four smaller, non-pressurized OWBs don't require the licensing and licensed operator that one bigger one would. That's what you call beating the system.

Yep...no regs, no visit by EPA inspector, no one doing method 9 readings, they are exempt By the way, the regs specifically take condensed water vapor plumes out of the equation (i.e. detached plume). Opacity can be read out of a 6" stack with no problem. But imagine the nightmare instantly created for state EPA inspectors if they were suddenly faced with inspecting every wood-fired boiler It will definitely be an industry-wide reg (like with wood stoves) or a local HD-regulated thing.

I know of a case in Cincinnatti where a landscaper put one in in a subdivision. Pissing all of the neighbors off. He/they were firing it 24/7 365-days a year (they had a heated pool). The guys wife had the audacity to say in the paper "if the neighbors want to pay our heating bill, then we'd be glad to stop using it".

 

[Harley]

I was about to answer your question completely differently, Elk. but the way you worded the question, I would have to say NO.... Towns should not adopt cleaner burning regulations. I'm a little scared to say this, but I think I would rather see some broad state guidance, then... if there is a real problem, the town count enact more strict policies. As indicated in this thread, and elsewhere, the sale and manufacture of these things is a really small market (probably even smaller here in MA) Having each town adopt their own regulations seems, to me anyway, a little silly.

 

[elkimmeg]

Harley get this. Our new Gov is looking into the Dept of public safety. One proposal is to do away with the state building inspectors and agenciy
That would leave it up to towns to adop/ admend their own building codes. Imagine all the efforts to make them unifiorm would be gone.
Each town could adopt and adopt admendments to suit its own purpose. This would be a giant step backwards. No two towns would be enforcing the same codes.
or there could be admendments to indivual base codes Caaos.. All as part of an effort to reduce services and move money around.
IT been 16 years of rep govenors here a lot of appointments were made by them. A lot of republican appointments, including many state inspectors.

The new Gov wants to put his people in place or eliminate past Rep appointments.

 

[begreen]

Regs posted are for wood burning stoves. Follow both links, the second one is for the referring doc from PSCA.

The regs apply to EPA as well as pre-EPA stoves. Either can be run smokey or cleanly.

Eric, you bring up an excellent point on stealth burning.

 

[keyman512us]

Hey all...
..Harry..I'm not disputing what you say...you bring up some good points, as do other posters here in this forum. What I'm saying is if everyone who burns wood in general doesn't get together on this topic it is going to get out of hand. Today it is anyone who has a "solid fuel outdoor appliance"...tommorow fireplace and stoves?
I run a "unit" that throws out as much smoke a barbecue grill but because of all the hype? I get the same "flak" as someone who runs a 3/4 million btu/hr incinerator smudge pot? Horse s^it!
There are valid point to this debate...unfortunately it is getting to the point of a comparison between "apples and bowling balls"....
In MHO..The powers that be don't care about fixing the problem...they just want it to "go away"....

 

[keyman512us]

Not to pick on Harry...

Now, as for my quote. Was something I said untrue in that quote? Do you dispute there arent harmful things in wood smoke? Especially in wood smoke from a unit burned inefficiently? Do you dispute the fact that i dont have the right to enjoy my property, as you do yours? Do you dispute the fact that your actions on your property shouldnt affect my own (one of the reasons for zoning)?

Your position is valid, and understood...
My position is this: Your opinion represents how alot of people think...only problem is the way this country is going today...OWB's(some yes,some no) are the target today...tommorow your neighbor might make the same argument in court about your barbecue grill in your backyard...where do you draw the line?
What happens a few years down the road when oil is $5/gallon and your neighbor is p*ssed off you got a stove and he doesn't...if you think i'm out in left field "we'll see"...
I speak from experience..."WTF did we get a call for? This? You gotta be sh*tting me i've seen barbecue grills worse than this" to quote the local firefighters on the last time the fire department put up with a "problem neighbor" of mine...looking at the stack with as close to 0% smoke coming out as you can get "..Sucks to be you" was his parting reply...

Things keep going the way they are...everyone is going to have to be a "stealth burner".

 

[elkimmeg]

Well one good thing about the board of heath regulations I'm no longer the guy put in the middle of this arguement anymore. Hell I can't issue permits for them
No more smoke complaints to deal with. I must say I will not miss them

 

[Harley]

Harley get this. Our new Gov is looking into the Dept of public safety. One proposal is to do away with the state building inspectors and agenciy
That would leave it up to towns to adop/ admend their own building codes. Imagine all the efforts to make them unifiorm would be gone.
Each town could adopt and adopt admendments to suit its own purpose. This would be a giant step backwards. No two towns would be enforcing the same codes.
or there could be admendments to indivual base codes Caaos.. All as part of an effort to reduce services and move money around.
IT been 16 years of rep govenors here a lot of appointments were made by them. A lot of republican appointments, including many state inspectors.

The new Gov wants to put his people in place or eliminate past Rep appointments.

Wow... You are right... That would be a HUGE step backwards... How the heck could any builder survive that? You would have to know every little nuance if the regs in every town in the Commonwealth? I'm sure our new Gov. Coupe Deval wouldn't want to do anythink like that, would he?

 

[mikeathens]

Regs posted are for wood burning stoves. Follow both links, the second one is for the referring doc from PSCA.

The regs apply to EPA as well as pre-EPA stoves. Either can be run smokey or cleanly.

The regs you posted apply to Washington state. WA's laws are more strict than federal. Most other states do not have anything like this regulation in place. Like I said before, anyhting under 1MMBtu/hr is exempt under fed laws (except in WA and possibly CA). States are allowed to be more stringent. The rules you posted are derived from opacity regs that apply to large coal and other solid-fuel buring devices. FYI, #2 fuel oil and natural gas boilers are exempt up to 10 MMBtu/hr in Ohio and most other states.

 

[mikeathens]

Not to pick on Harry...

Now, as for my quote. Was something I said untrue in that quote? Do you dispute there arent harmful things in wood smoke? Especially in wood smoke from a unit burned inefficiently? Do you dispute the fact that i dont have the right to enjoy my property, as you do yours? Do you dispute the fact that your actions on your property shouldnt affect my own (one of the reasons for zoning)?

Your position is valid, and understood...
My position is this: Your opinion represents how alot of people think...only problem is the way this country is going today...OWB's(some yes,some no) are the target today...tommorow your neighbor might make the same argument in court about your barbecue grill in your backyard...where do you draw the line?
What happens a few years down the road when oil is $5/gallon and your neighbor is p*ssed off you got a stove and he doesn't...if you think i'm out in left field "we'll see"...
I speak from experience..."WTF did we get a call for? This? You gotta be sh*tting me i've seen barbecue grills worse than this" to quote the local firefighters on the last time the fire department put up with a "problem neighbor" of mine...looking at the stack with as close to 0% smoke coming out as you can get "..Sucks to be you" was his parting reply...

Things keep going the way they are...everyone is going to have to be a "stealth burner".

Also, you all are getting a little to bent out of shape over this. there will never be regs for outdoor BBQs. Indoor wood burners will only fall under more strict requirements if they become a problem - meaning that they affect national ambient air quality standards - like EVERYONE gets one in a densly populated area. There are too many other sources that will be regulated before modern wood stoves - uncontrolled gas pumps, for example. Diesel engines, for example (this is already being implemented). Outdoor wood boilers are coming out a problem because they are...they have no place in a residential area, especially within city limits.

 

[elkimmeg]

Harley get this. Our new Gov is looking into the Dept of public safety. One proposal is to do away with the state building inspectors and agenciy
That would leave it up to towns to adop/ admend their own building codes. Imagine all the efforts to make them unifiorm would be gone.
Each town could adopt and adopt admendments to suit its own purpose. This would be a giant step backwards. No two towns would be enforcing the same codes.
or there could be admendments to indivual base codes Caaos.. All as part of an effort to reduce services and move money around.
IT been 16 years of rep govenors here a lot of appointments were made by them. A lot of republican appointments, including many state inspectors.

The new Gov wants to put his people in place or eliminate past Rep appointments.

Wow... You are right... That would be a HUGE step backwards... How the heck could any builder survive that? You would have to know every little nuance if the regs in every town in the Commonwealth? I'm sure our new Gov. Coupe Deval wouldn't want to do anythink like that, would he?

I was at the regional inspectors meeting Wed, The State inspector told us of this potential of no state agency. No state agency to regulate licencing No appeal process outside of court. No licencing agence to renew licences or issue new ones Another proposal is to go under the fire marshall dept but only NFPA ia reconised. they do have a model building code but it is not reconised on the federal level. At this point in time I still would have my part time job we are not hired by the state buy by local towns

 

[colsmith]

Keyman said What I’m saying is if everyone who burns wood in general doesn’t get together on this topic it is going to get out of hand. Today it is anyone who has a “solid fuel outdoor appliance”...tomorrow fireplace and stoves?

I don't think that is true. So many people have fireplaces and indoor wood stoves right now, and there tends to be no serious conflict about them among neighbors. As older stoves wear out and get replaced by the clean burning modern stoves, it will be even less likely to cause conflict and hence rules and legislation. Why make laws about and regulate things that people don't notice?

The first house down the road north of us has a wood burning stove. I only know this because when I was chatting with the neighbor and said I had a wood stove, and he said that he did, too. I had no idea. The second house to the south of us also has a wood stove. Again, I only know because when I stopped in to bring them some fruit (we have an orchard) he took me in and showed me his wood stove. Two years ago he and his wife were cutting down 2 big willow trees and burning the branches. I stopped to see what they were burning and if I might want it, and they brought me a truck load of bigger willow wood, so that is how they knew I had one. (Our first firewood - they had so much hardwood they didn't want it.) So we all have clean wood burning stoves, and would not be aware of each other's stoves except for mentioning it. And of course I have lots of wood piles visible from the road. I don't know where the next door guy keeps his, but he has a large garage and enormous sheds. The other couple evidently keeps it behind their house, between the house and the woods where I suppose their wood comes from. Another neighbor who lives over a mile away stopped and asked me why I had all the wood, he wanted some. He didn't realize we had a wood stove either, guess he thought I was planning way ahead for bonfires. So since our neighbors can't tell we have wood stoves, why would they complain and demand regulation? If outdoor wood burners didn't make such ghastly pollution, they wouldn't be in this pickle right now.

Most people don't have the time or energy to schlepp wood around so much and tend to their stove, and even if they did, people in cities wouldn't have enough space to store wood. So although it may grow in popularity, I think there is a built in limit. As we run lower on oil and natural gas, I don't think anyone is going to want to take clean burning wood stoves away from us. Maybe we will get conservation tax breaks or something.