Shoulder season = small fires = secondaries?

[ClydesdaleBurner]

I'm into my second year with my stove and this is the first fall I've burned it. Temps outside in the mid-high 40's. I could get by without it, but frankly I'm just too excited to have the stove going so I've been burning small fires. 2 small splits on the coals and letting the fire run down to ashes and then reignite when the stove top temp gets to 200 degrees.

My question is with these smaller fires should I be trying to get secondary combustion going? I don't think it would be possible with the fires I've been burning since the stove top temp is only getting to 250-300, but that's all I need to warm the house. Now I know this is not the most efficient way of burning, but when its 45 outside it works.

So what do you do during the shoulder seasons?

Thanks!

 

[SlyFerret]

As far as I know, to burn these EPA stoves properly, you should always get them going enough to have secondary combustion.

I've been building big enough fires to run the stove the way it wants to burn, but that also means that I end up having to light up a cold stove by the time the house gets back down to temp.

I'm dying to get a coal bed established but that is going to have to wait.

-SF

 

[North of 60]

So what do you do during the shoulder seasons?

Thanks!

I load the stove up to the gills and set the stat on low as she goes once all has ignited and then check it the following day and repeat.
Stove top temp will be between 275 and 300 after it settles down for the rest of the burn.

 

[eernest4]

I don't know, maybe its just me or maybe my stove, but the stove wants 500 deg, & 600 deg stove top is more better ,to initiate a secondary burn I can believe in.

But it don't worry me none. I do it & the stove does it & that is that, Warm & Happy!

Except for last night. It went down to a frosty 24 deg F & my house was 60 deg when I got home. (I don't ever leave a fire burning when I am out. Safety Rule of Mine.)

So I gets in at 3 am & lits the fire & am freezing still at 7:30 am. I don't know where the heat is going. 95 in the basement, 69 in the living room & 55 FINALLY on the second floor. Was like 50 all night on the second floor.

I am begining to think that my house warms up through osmosis, Get it hot- takes all day, two
or three fires worth & then you had better keep it hot or else

I was out in my comericial building which I lost my tennant & he had the natural gas & electric disconnected & I drained down all the water lines running all over the place & made just one water line to supply my remaining tennant.

That was as far as I got, except to stick a 1 burner propaine camp stove in the building & good thing too because my 7:30 am check was a temp drop from 65 deg at midnight to 48 deg this morning with the propaine going constantly.

Late Today, after get at least some sleep, I have to wrap that cold water line with electric heat tape and fiberglass insulation & a vapor barrier & then it can go down below zero for all I care, & it wont freeze, if the mfg of the heat tape is not lying like a rug.
So,I will have to keep the eye on it, I think,
until I determine what to expect from it.

Anyway, I see now that I will need to keep a head of heat up in my house if I dont want to freeze my hair off.
Oh wait---To late for that,I'm alread bald headed!! Well, at least I am sure ,if you were drinking coffee, that its all over your keyboard by now :lol:

Time for a smiley face & a box of cleanex :lol:

 

[branchburner]

I've been burning small fires. My question is with these smaller fires should I be trying to get secondary combustion going? I don't think it would be possible with the fires I've been burning since the stove top temp is only getting to 250-300, but that's all I need to warm the house. So what do you do during the shoulder seasons?

I do pretty much what you do, a small fire to take the edge off. Even though these EPA stoves are made to run hot and burn clean, you can still use them for what they are: a metal box that holds fire. Don't worry about secondaries, especially since your stove top is under 300.
Yesterday was the first day cold enough for me to justify a "real" fire, so we really cranked 'er. The house went from 56 in the am to near 80 by noon. The wife loved it, the kids loved it and I loved it, so we ran it all day. Got to see some nice secondary "ghost" flames dancing in the firebox. Smiles all around.

 

[stanb999]

NO,NO,NO.....

Always, Always,Always.... Bring the stove up to temp. You regulate the heat buy the amount of wood not the rate of burn. The damper is to slow a really hot fire not make a cold one.

Tips for a "low" heat fire.

Use small splits and lots of kindling.
Keep the draft open fully.
When the secondaries fire, You can bring the draft control back a little but keep them firing.
Use the mass of the stove to keep the house warm. It works.
three small hot fires are better than 1 smoky mess.
Wood heat isn't central heating so don't expect 68 degrees at all times. Let the house temp cycle up and down. You will have a lot less frustration come winter.

"Shoulder Season" is the most critical time of the year. When it's hardest to use the wood heat. Your draft is less, your heating requirements are less, your fires are smaller. You will create most of your creosote in these few months.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Well, we've been having fires since late September and there have been only a couple days without needing it. However, we do build small fires and don't use much kindling to get it going either. In fact, I just started a fire in the stove about 15 minutes ago. I used 3 pieces of small kindling and 2 small splits.

As for firing up the secondary, there is no need to on most stoves. We haven't yet this year and won't until it gets real cold. We simply lite a small fire and then maybe add 2 or 3 splits and let it go out lest we heat the outdoors too by having to open windows and doors.

When I started this fire, there were no hot coals to be found, however, the stove was still warm to the touch! The last time wood had been added to that stove was the night before last. Yes, we were still getting heat from it last night and it did not get very cold overnight so we just left it. So why should I build a big fire when it is not needed? The stove burns just fine without that big fire and we have no creosote problems nor any problems with the stove. Hey, I just love this stove!

 

[stanb999]

Well, we've been having fires since late September and there have been only a couple days without needing it. However, we do build small fires and don't use much kindling to get it going either. In fact, I just started a fire in the stove about 15 minutes ago. I used 3 pieces of small kindling and 2 small splits.

As for firing up the secondary, there is no need to on most stoves. We haven't yet this year and won't until it gets real cold. We simply lite a small fire and then maybe add 2 or 3 splits and let it go out lest we heat the outdoors too by having to open windows and doors.

When I started this fire, there were no hot coals to be found, however, the stove was still warm to the touch! The last time wood had been added to that stove was the night before last. Yes, we were still getting heat from it last night and it did not get very cold overnight so we just left it. So why should I build a big fire when it is not needed? The stove burns just fine without that big fire and we have no creosote problems nor any problems with the stove. Hey, I just love this stove!

The reason you burn the stove hot is to avoid cresote. If you choose to ignore that little fact you will hear the woosh. It may take some time but you will.

When a small amount of heat is needed a small amount of wood is used. But when using "small" wood you still want the 10 pieces or so that you would get in a larger fire. When I said small splits, they are 1" x 1" or so. Fill the fire box if you want. Then let it go. you will get a secondary burn for 35-45 min. then it will be down to coals. It will heat your house gently.

I realize that not all folks have access to unlimited small sticks and twigs, So with this in mind. This is how we do it.
Living on a farmstead what we do is take 2 small splits, 3-4 " in size for the bottom. Then I go and get a satchel full of little sticks enough to fill half the fire box. Then little paper knots for the top down fire. This fire burns at full temp. for about 1 hour. goes to coals then goes out clean.

Here is a simple way to tell if you are burning right. Is your fire brick and glass black. Or is the clean? My stove glass and brick are as clean as the day we bought it new.

 

[Martin Strand III]

NO,NO,NO.....

Always, Always,Always.... Bring the stove up to temp. You regulate the heat buy the amount of wood not the rate of burn. The damper is to slow a really hot fire not make a cold one.

Tips for a "low" heat fire.

Use small splits and lots of kindling.
Keep the draft open fully.
When the secondaries fire, You can bring the draft control back a little but keep them firing.
Use the mass of the stove to keep the house warm. It works.
three small hot fires are better than 1 smoky mess.
Wood heat isn't central heating so don't expect 68 degrees at all times. Let the house temp cycle up and down. You will have a lot less frustration come winter.

"Shoulder Season" is the most critical time of the year. When it's hardest to use the wood heat. Your draft is less, your heating requirements are less, your fires are smaller. You will create most of your creosote in these few months.

I agree, in part. Even small fires should be hot enough to heat the stove to proper operating temperature and prevent smoldering. This "partial charge efficiency" varies between different Mfg. stoves. Your job is to know your stove and burn properly w/o smoldering.

The "draft" of your stove is driven by temperature differential between inside the firebox and the outside temperature beyond the chimney cap. Bigger temperature difference, better draft. This means in Spring/Fall when it's "warmer" outside, your fire must be "hot" to keep a good draft. To keep the firebox hot, the draft may require dampening (aka closing it down a bit) since a high volume of incoming air can actually cool a fire.

Review this:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/operate_spring_fall

Aye,
Marty

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Stan, I understand what you are trying to say and I partially agree with you. I certainly agree that you do not want a smoldering fire.

What I do not agree with is loading that stove with all that small stuff and letting it burn hot. Can you not also get a hot fire with say three small splits? And why fill that firebox half full if you don't need that much heat?

We basically do the same thing. That is, build a hot fire and let it go out. We just don't believe you need all that really small stuff. We use just enough kindling to get the splits going. When the stove gets to the right temperature, we engage the cat. and let it do the work.

As for chimney fires, we have never experience one of our own and do not care to either. We also do not have a creosote problem. For example, we installed a new chimney last year and have not cleaned it yet....and it is still clean!

 

[stanb999]

Stan, I understand what you are trying to say and I partially agree with you. I certainly agree that you do not want a smoldering fire.

What I do not agree with is loading that stove with all that small stuff and letting it burn hot. Can you not also get a hot fire with say three small splits? And why fill that firebox half full if you don't need that much heat?

We basically do the same thing. That is, build a hot fire and let it go out. We just don't believe you need all that really small stuff. We use just enough kindling to get the splits going. When the stove gets to the right temperature, we engage the cat. and let it do the work.

As for chimney fires, we have never experience one of our own and do not care to either. We also do not have a creosote problem. For example, we installed a new chimney last year and have not cleaned it yet....and it is still clean!

I think we are quite possibly doing thing a little different because the very differences in the stoves.

You have a Cat. So you can burn the smoke of 3-5 splits...

My non-Cat. wont burn the smoke if you don't have full flame and high heat. If I put in a few splits like that it would burn in a smoking mess.




So maybe this is the big difference? I see the OP has anon-Cat. So this is addressed to those with non-cat. stoves.

 

[BrotherBart]

What I do not agree with is loading that stove with all that small stuff and letting it burn hot. Can you not also get a hot fire with say three small splits? And why fill that firebox half full if you don't need that much heat?

We basically do the same thing. That is, build a hot fire and let it go out. We just don't believe you need all that really small stuff. We use just enough kindling to get the splits going. When the stove gets to the right temperature, we engage the cat. and let it do the work.

Same thing I do Backwoods with the 30 non-cat. Three splits, kindling on top and the paper knots and let'er roll. Around 300 degrees stove top temp I close it 1/2- 3/4 down according to how it is burning and let it roll till it burns out for the day. It usually peaks at 500-600 and eases down from there for hours.

 

[branchburner]

Stan, I understand what you are trying to say and I partially agree with you. I certainly agree that you do not want a smoldering fire.

What I do not agree with is loading that stove with all that small stuff and letting it burn hot. Can you not also get a hot fire with say three small splits? And why fill that firebox half full if you don't need that much heat?

We basically do the same thing. That is, build a hot fire and let it go out. We just don't believe you need all that really small stuff. We use just enough kindling to get the splits going. When the stove gets to the right temperature, we engage the cat. and let it do the work.

I think we are quite possibly doing thing a little different because the very differences in the stoves.
You have a Cat. So you can burn the smoke of 3-5 splits...
My non-Cat. wont burn the smoke if you don't have full flame and high heat. If I put in a few splits like that it would burn in a smoking mess.
So maybe this is the big difference? I see the OP has anon-Cat. So this is addressed to those with non-cat. stoves.

I agree that whatever you burn you don't want smoke, and you are more likely to get smoke w/ larger wood. But I don't think burning the smoke with your secondary method, whether it cat or not, is always required. A really hot fire will burn a lot of its own smoke pretty well.
With my non-cat I toss in a small load of very dry small stuff. With full air and bypass open the stove comes up to temp really fast. If it's a quick, hot fire, I am not burning any smoke with my afterburner, but if I go outside I don't see a wisp. I can shut the air back as needed to keep the stovetop from getting too hot, but I'll try to keep it opened enough for a fairly clean burn. I have the tem for afterburn, but not the coals, so the damper stays open.
Sure, I'm losing some heat, but it's shoulder season. No biggie. Plus, I can afford it. I'm also a guy with an endless supply of dry twigs in the back lot and free pallets from work. My motto: burn dry, burn hot.

 

[stanb999]

With my non-cat I toss in a small load of very dry small stuff. With full air and bypass open the stove comes up to temp really fast. If it's a quick, hot fire, I am not burning any smoke with my afterburner, but if I go outside I don't see a wisp. I can shut the air back as needed to keep the stovetop from getting too hot, but I'll try to keep it opened enough for a fairly clean burn. I have the tem for afterburn, but not the coals, so the damper stays open.
Sure, I'm losing some heat, but it's shoulder season. No biggie. Plus, I can afford it. I'm also a guy with an endless supply of dry twigs in the back lot and free pallets from work. My motto: burn dry, burn hot.

This is exactly what the OP needs to read.