Small "cord"

[Mo Heat]

It's too bad that people don't give true measurements.

That reminds me of a joke, but I'll skip it...

Don't feel singled out. I have never had a full cord delivered. And I drug a couple guys over the coals. After a make-up delivery, it was still short! It is nearly an impossible task. Wood Men are a different breed it seems. Many of the Wood Men I've bought from don't even know what the true definition of a cord is. That's frightening. We have all those same laws here in MO and no one knows of them or cares. Not even the commercial tree services that sell large scale. I know. I bought from them, too.

One thing that makes measuring firewood difficult is the varying lengths of each split. Few if any dealers have uniform lengths. This leaves a lot of estimating. If splits were cut to 16 inches (there's that joke again, ahem...) it would be easy to measure three stacks of 4 x 8 and know what you had. But this is never the case. It is probably more difficult than calculating a moon shot. At least for the Wood Man it is.

I'd recommend that from now on you keep the new deliveries segregated so as to know exactly what you have. That's what I do although I'm not having to buy any this year (or so I think at this stage of the game) thank goodness.

 

[Nokoni]

Well, they brought the firewood today and guess what?????? I (plus Crow & husband) stacked it and measured it out and I got
8 feet long by 46 inches tall by 35 inches wide. From my calculations (my math is bad) I'm missing a row 8 foot long by 48 inches tall by 12 inches wide. That seems like it would be a lot of extra fires for me. My husband called the guy back and he is bringing (supposedly) the missing amount next Saturday. We shall see. Am I being picky about this extra row that I'm missing?

 

[Roospike]

I got
8 feet long by 46 inches tall by 35 inches wide.

This is 0.69 of a cord. Here ya go Nokoni ----->FIREWOOD CORD CALCULATOR http://www.state.me.us/ag/firewood.html

 

[Mo Heat]

... Am I being picky about this extra row that I'm missing?

Not even a little picky. Get what you paid for. You deserve it. Period. But good luck with getting it. If your make-up delivery is like mine have been, it will still be a bit short. At a certain point it becomes a diminishing benefit effort. You decide where that point is.

 

[ourhouse]

You paid for a full cord.Get what you paid for. And thats not being picky.

 

[crow]

I got
8 feet long by 46 inches tall by 35 inches wide.

This is 0.69 of a cord. Here ya go Nokoni ----->FIREWOOD CORD CALCULATOR http://www.state.me.us/ag/firewood.html

Thanks for posting the cord calculator ! What a fabulous thing!

I just don't understand why people who sell wood seem so hell bent on the short change?! Seems to me it would be well worth being legit and earning a loyal repeat customer and getting referrals. Just good business sense , if you ask me. But what do I know?

 

[Roospike]

Yeah , I bet the wood supplier after he delivered the wood would $hit his pants is you handed him an envelope with the money and was $25.00 short of the total. THEN it would be a big deal.

 

[slofr8]

This is how I stack my wood. I cut it on my own wood lot (a year in advance) and pile it in one cord rows very loose to help it dry better and faster. Once I bring it to the house, I pile it as tight as posible to save room but the "cord" I had in the woods isn't quite a cord in the garage. This would not account for a big shortage but if your lacking a little from your cord this could be one reason.
Dan.

 

[crow]

I was with Nokoni when she got her wood. We stacked it so it was close enough to get an accurate measure...but not so close that it would impede air circulation.
I totally understand that tight stacking might diminish the size of "a cord" ...but not by a whole row of 12-14" x 8'x4' worth. The cord was short. and short a substantial amount.

My theory is that they have a small dump truck with the side walls extended so that it will fit roughly a cord...they fill the damn truck...& voila, that's your "cord".
If they stacked it neatly in the truck, instead of throwing the wood in, it probably would be a true cord...but that's too much work and they probably don't think you'll know the difference.

 

[crow]

Yeah , I bet the wood supplier after he delivered the wood would $hit his pants is you handed him an envelope with the money and was $25.00 short of the total. THEN it would be a big deal.

You got that right! :roll: >:-(

 

[Mo Heat]

The cord measurement per Univ of Kentucky:

The Cord and Other Measures
Firewood is commonly measured by volume, not weight. The standard unit of measure is the cord, defined as the amount of wood that can be stacked into a space with the dimensions of 8 ft x 4 ft x 4 ft. Although the volume of this space is 128 cu ft, the volume of wood in this space is closer to 80 cu ft because of the air spaces between irregularly shaped pieces of wood. A carefully stacked cord of uniformly sized firewood could contain as much as 100 cu ft of wood, whereas a haphazardly stacked cord may only be 60 cu ft.

In Missouri, the Dept. of Agriculture regulates the sale of firewood and the definition of a cord. It states that a cord is a measurement of tightly stacked firewood. There is no need to stack firewood loosely to accomodate green wood to seasoned wood shrinkage. This is one of the reasons why green wood sells for less than seasoned wood. That is, there won't be quite as much of it there once the water disappears. Buying water is a suckers' game.

Check out this info on the Missouri Dept. of Agriculture web site. It gives good guidance for buying firewood. It's short and sweet.

http://www.mda.mo.gov/Scales/woodprods.htm

 

[elkimmeg]

Mo print that out and give it to your wood men. Might be the first time they had it described correctly.

 

[ourhouse]

Mo thats perfect, There is no BSing around with that.

 

[Nokoni]

I didn't stack the wood super tight. I just kind of stacked it. So, I'm sure if I would have taken the time to stack really tight I would feel even more ripped off! Any advice on how to find a reliable wood dealer? This is getting kind of old.

 

[seaken]

I didn't stack the wood super tight. I just kind of stacked it. So, I'm sure if I would have taken the time to stack really tight I would feel even more ripped off! Any advice on how to find a reliable wood dealer? This is getting kind of old.

Sorry, can't help you. A main reason why there are few, if any, "reliable" wood dealers is because there is no way to make a profit. It is a starvation enterprise, as far as businesses go. The only way a wood supplier can make it is to be a cheat - somewhere. A reputable business person will not cheat. Therefore, no reputable wood dealers.

My appoligies to any who ARE reputable. You are a rare breed indeed. In my area, if I were to attempt running a reputable wood supply business I would have to charge over $500 per cord. How many cords will I sell at that price? Yeah, that's what I thought. Most of the wood "dealers" are not really running a business around here. It is a sideline thing. Chopping and cutting and picking up a few bucks for beer, or in some cases groceries for the family. Some of these guys are so poor they can't afford a ruler and others are so uneducated they can't read a ruler or do the math. Again, I apologize for being so crude and offending any true "dealers' who are trying to be honest wood suppliers. There have been many here who have given it a try and start out trying to be honest business men who treat customers with fairness. It simply cannot be done. At $150-$200 per cord you can not make it.

By far the majority of wood burners in my area have their own wood supply on their own property, or can afford to spend more than $300 per cord and understand that they are not buying "cords" but "psuedo-cords". They pay $150 for a truckload and don't worry about the math. They are paying well over $300 per cord (probably $450 if a standard pickup truck). If you are going to try and buying cordwood by the cord you will have to educate your "dealer" and probably argue with them about what you are paying for what you are getting. It is not a fun excercise.

I recommend to my wood buying customers (I sell wood stoves but not the wood fuel) that they buy green wood for as cheaply as they can get it and then stack it and season it themselves. And I tell them to not expect too much from the "dealer". Negotiate the best price they can get for the best wood they can get. Don't buy rotten and don't pay "good oak" prices for "pine", etc. With a little education you can control what you buy. The trick to is to do it early and learn to negotiate. You may luck out and find a reputable guy, for awhile. You'll be lucky if that guy is around next year. After he counts his revenue and subtracts his expenses he will start looking for another opportunity.

This subject has come up several times here and will continue to come up. I don't see things changing. Buying cordwood is not like buying oil, or even pellets and corn. Some states try to regulate but there really is no standard. A "cord" is not a scientific measurment by weight so there is a lot of wiggle room even in those states that regulate it. The best way to solve this problem is to require a standard weight and moisture content. That will not happen. Cord wood is very small potatoes and no such regulation will ever be paid for by the tax payer or the wood burner. The biggest benefit of burning wood for many people is the cost savings. Those savings disappear for most wood burners when wood goes over $300 per cord. If regulated by weight and moisture the cost will be closer to $500 per cord. Won't work.

 

[BikeMedic2709]

Sean,
The truth can hurt, sometimes. It can be a tough pill to swallow. Oh Well. I know of a great place to get wood. This older gentleman I know has 2 racks built. Both are 2' wide, 4' high, and 8' long, with a board over the top. Next to the racks is a HUGE pile of mixed split cordwood. You fill the racks with as much wood as you can. (He watches.) You haul it home. $50. If I am ever in need of wood, I will go here.

 

[Mo Heat]

Hey Sean, you're not far off the mark, but I wouldn't have the courage to be quite so blunt. Fact is, there is no good money to be made by the average firewood dealer (the weekend, neighborhood cruiser with a pick-up or trailer). Once they realize it, they either get out, or do what all other businesses do and start raising prices or lowering quantities.

The only way to burn wood economically IMO is to cut it yourself (partially or completely) or be extremely lucky and find someone from the old school of firewood economics who probably isn't depending on his profits to feed himself.

BikeMedic, I think that is a great price for wood, even considering you do a lot of the work and transport. This is the kind of lucky deal I refer to above. But you need a pick-up truck or trailer, etc., a strong back, free time, a storage location, etc., etc. At least you don't need a chain saw, protective gear, lumberjack experience, etc., etc. with this setup.

Like Dave Johnson (a long time, but infrequent poster hear) says, "Wood-burning is an expensive hobby for most people."

Elk, That's not a bad idea to convey the information, but I know they'd never come back again for me to benefit from it. I guess you have to almost accept some shorting after you realize the staggeringly bad economics of firewood dealing. Otherwise, no one is going to supply you with wood (unless you're really lucky as I stated earlier).

 

[BrotherBart]

A guy down the road from me has been selling firewood since long before we moved here in 1985. He has a lot down there with a pile about the length of a football field and around fifteen feet high. He has a single axle straight truck with high sideboards and delivers it dumped for $450 a load. He says it runs around three cords per load.

My neighbors have been buying their wood from him for years and have never complained about the wood or the measure.

I have to believe the guy is making a buck or two somehow or he wouldn't have been doing it this long.

 

[seaken]

A guy down the road from me has been selling firewood since long before we moved here in 1985. He has a lot down there with a pile about the length of a football field and around fifteen feet high. He has a single axle straight truck with high sideboards and delivers it dumped for $450 a load. He says it runs around three cords per load.

My neighbors have been buying their wood from him for years and have never complained about the wood or the measure.

I have to believe the guy is making a buck or two somehow or he wouldn't have been doing it this long.

That sounds like the kind of operation that has a chance of at least breaking even. There are few operations like that around. Probably because there are few buyers who want to buy wood that way. I can tell you, if more people were willing to spend $500 at time for their wood there would be a better chance of getting honest business people involved. He can deliver three cords at once just as easily as he can one. Buying wood by the pickup load is not going to yield as good a result for either party. If wood was sold and handled like pellets it would make sense for fuel suppliers who can make a go of it with pellets (which is also very hard to do in a profitable manner but is being done by several competent suppliers). In some areas it may turn out that wood burners will want to buy wood in that way. In our area, where wood is plentiful, there is resistance to paying a professional rate for professionally supplied wood. Hard to crack the thought of "I can get the same stuff down the road from the pickup truck guy for half the price". (Even if it's not true, as we have all agreed here). Too bad.

 

[seaken]

If there ARE any reputable wood dealers in my area, and you were offended by my comments, please contact me. I can give you a LOT of good leads. I am always being asked this question. Every day. We have yet to find a good wood "dealer". (Although we have had a few who have tried. They couldn't make it.) Can you?

 

[BikeMedic2709]

To me; cutting wood is the essence of woodburning. I burn wood to support my woodcutting habit. I love to be out in the woods, cutting wood! I love the work. I love the equipment. I love being outside. (Truth is my wife runs an in home daycare, and I can't wait to get out of the house on my days off!)
Seriously though; I really do love to cut wood. (I have thought of trying to get a part time job for a tree service.) And I feel like I never have enough wood.

 

[BrotherBart]

To me; cutting wood is the essence of woodburning. I burn wood to support my woodcutting habit. I love to be out in the woods, cutting wood! I love the work. I love the equipment. I love being outside. (Truth is my wife runs an in home daycare, and I can't wait to get out of the house on my days off!)
Seriously though; I really do love to cut wood. (I have thought of trying to get a part time job for a tree service.) And I feel like I never have enough wood.

Like I told Eric J.

I am thinking 12 step program here.

 

[BikeMedic2709]

Hello!
Uh.. My name is Mike....
And..uh...um... I am a woodcutter....

 

[Mo Heat]

Hi Mike, and welcome.
My name is Mo, and I'm an energy abuser.
It's been 5 days since my last thermostat setback.
< Hi, Mo >
My energy usage increased steadily for years,
Eventually it got completely out of control.
I once spent an entire paycheck heating with propane and electricity.
I completely lost interest in my cool house.
I ran with a Jacuzzi jet set, getting hooked on hot, fast water.
For a while it was electrifying. The watts flowed like wine.
Then it happened. I contracted AMPS from an unsafe Sachs worker,
Eventually transmitting AMPS to my unsuspecting wife.
It was shocking, but I actually became grounded by the guilt,
And my habit had become too expensive to support anyway.
Unexpectedly, my supply was cut off and I went into withdrawal.
My home was cold and dark and the future looked grim.
I ate poorly and loathed the smell of my natural gas.
As a crutch, I used Sterno to warm Hawaiian POO-poo.
That was when I knew I had hit rock bottom.
If I hadn't acted, it might have been too late.
Somehow, I found hearthnet and the support of good people.
I installed a wood stove. Things slowly began to improve.
Now there is hope for the future.
Again, welcome, and keep coming back.
Please join me...
God grant me the urbanity to axe-up the wood I cannot chain[saw],
The courage to chain[saw] the wood I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

Mo Heat
(all rights reserved

 

[Roospike]

YA'LL NUTS ! truth be told the more you guys confesse .......... the less i look so bad. :sick: