Smoke in my house again! What's with my piping? HELP!

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Mattbph

Member
Dec 20, 2010
38
Dutchess County, NY
My stove has been working fine and then when I wasn’t home my wife decided to change the settings (GRRRRR): Lowering the temp to level 2 and draft fan to 4.

I guess this caused my fired to go out in the stove which caused some massive ammounts of smoke to leak from my piping!! I could see where the smoke was coming from, mostly my 45 degree pipe which already has specialized tape wrapped around the seam. The smoke was also coming from the bottom of the T pipe and also from where the pipe exits the wall. What’s going on here? Did I get a crappy vent kit from Duravent? Any suggestions??

Since last night I cleaned the stove and it seems to be working fine. Smoke issues seem to occur when the fire on my stove goes out unexpectantly.

Input is greatly appreciated!!

Also, when you shut down the stove where should the vent be kept? Pulled out all the way or pushed in??
 
By vent you mean air intake? Did you rtv sealant all your seems of the pipe,especially the 45's ?
 
Matty,

Please describe your venting starting at the stove going to and including the termination cap.

If possible provide a picture of the outside venting and tell us if you are venting into the prevailing wind for your location.
 
Matty said:
My stove has been working fine and then when I wasn’t home my wife decided to change the settings (GRRRRR): Lowering the temp to level 2 and draft fan to 4.

I guess this caused my fired to go out in the stove which caused some massive ammounts of smoke to leak from my piping!! I could see where the smoke was coming from, mostly my 45 degree pipe which already has specialized tape wrapped around the seam. The smoke was also coming from the bottom of the T pipe and also from where the pipe exits the wall. What’s going on here? Did I get a crappy vent kit from Duravent? Any suggestions??

Since last night I cleaned the stove and it seems to be working fine. Smoke issues seem to occur when the fire on my stove goes out unexpectantly.

Input is greatly appreciated!!

Also, when you shut down the stove where should the vent be kept? Pulled out all the way or pushed in??

Not enough information in your ask for help.

what is the stove?
list all components of your venting starting with diameter (3" is the most common)
where is the stove located in the house?

Eric
 
Hello Everyone,

Still I am having issues with smoke leaking from the pipes but it only seems to happen when the stove goes out or I am low on pellets in the hopper. Is it common for the stove to leak a ton of smoke into your house when it goes out? Yesterday when I got home from work my house was FILLED with smoke and what’s scarier is that my smoke alarms didn’t go off!! How long will it take for that smokie smell to leave the house? It felt like I was breathing in all of those fumes all night long!! I woke up and my throat was killing me and I had a headache!! Are the fumes from a pellet stove dangerous to be breathing in? Any suggestions on how to air out my home?

So, what I am thinking is that the stove went out due to crappy pellets (pennington) because not only did my stove go out but there was a TON of creosole on the glass of the stove! It was almost burnt, what’s the best way to clean the window of the glass stove?? Not only was I using crappy pellets but my damper was not out far enough which probably caused the flame to go out :(

I’m thinking about calling my service guy out again to see why smoke leaks from my pipes and into my home. I have already put high temperature tape on all of the pipes that are sealed together but there may be a couple of spots that could use a little more tape. I’ve noticed that when my stove goes out it seems like alot of the smoke comes out of the 45 degree pipe and the pipe that exits the wall to the outside. I’ve been told to use some high temperature sealant on the pipe that exits the house to the outside.

I’m starting to get really bummed out… I’m considering getting rid of the stove completely if it doesn’t get fixed!

My stove is a US Stove 6041. I bought a duravent woodpellet/corn piping kit and had it installed professionally. There is a pipe that comes out of the stove and then connects to a T pipe. Then there are about 3 12" pipes going up which are connected together that lead to a 45 degree pipe (which seems to be where I have most of my issues). There are 2 more 12" pipes connected together which exit the wall through a thimble. Yesterday I noticed that there was alot of black residue around the last pipe that goes through the thimble, it could be from all of the smoke that was billowing into my house yesterday.
 
If you bought the lowes grade duravent w/ the rope gasket which is what it sounds like you need to disassemble all the pipe and silicone seal all the connections. the pipe will not be sealed without silicone. do not burn stove untiol this is done. Also give the stove more air. you should not have a black build up inside the stove. ash and glass build up should be gray/light brown
 
Matty,

First off do what rickwa suggested.

Second please complete the list of what your venting is and if possible post a picture of the vent from outside the house.

It actually takes very little smoke to leave a rather strong smell, to get rid of the smell you'll likely need to open up some windows.

You need to understand that improperly installed or operated stoves can lead to major problems up to and including death.

Your smoke detectors didn't go off for any number of reasons, a very likely one is that they didn't see enough smoke or that they are in fact heat detectors and never got warm enough.
 
Just wanted to say thanks for everyone's help!

I've tried airing out my home this past weekend and it helped a little.

I've become paronoid about leaving my stove on when I am not home. Since the smoke incident I've been turning my stove off before I leave for work.

The stove has been operating fine with my lingentic blue label pellets but noticed that my house hasn't been getting as hot as it normally did. It used to be 74/75 degrees on the bottom floor, 68/69 in the middle and 64/65 on the top floor. Now, my stove barely makes my bottom floor go to 70 degrees. What could be the reason?
 
Matty,

I have recently installed a USSC 6041 PT in my home. I used the Simpson Duravent kit that I purchased from TSC for venting. I have not had the any of the smoke issues you have described as of yet, granted its only been up and going for a few days. I sealed all joints inside and out with RTV. I know that taking them back apart will be a challenge but I didn't want to risk smoke leaking out. I have also been using the Auto Modes, which will still allow me to adjust the fans within a certain range. I am still in the learning stage with my stove as well. I have learned, which reading the posts on here also verified, that after trying a few brands of pellets there is definitely different results from each, heat, ash, etc.
 
I recently install my stove used the tape on the joints. I use the simpson duravent I had leaks with the tape and had to remove it and use the high temp silicone to seal the pipe. I only seen smoke coming from one joint but when I removed the pieces of tape I could see a brown line where it had been leaking. You could remove a piece of tape and see if you are having same problem.
 
Matty said:
Just wanted to say thanks for everyone's help!

I've tried airing out my home this past weekend and it helped a little.

I've become paronoid about leaving my stove on when I am not home. Since the smoke incident I've been turning my stove off before I leave for work.

The stove has been operating fine with my lingentic blue label pellets but noticed that my house hasn't been getting as hot as it normally did. It used to be 74/75 degrees on the bottom floor, 68/69 in the middle and 64/65 on the top floor. Now, my stove barely makes my bottom floor go to 70 degrees. What could be the reason?

You never did complete the venting description. It is likely that your venting is still incorrect, but we can't be certain.

Now as for the decrease in temperature, it is likely because now you allow the house to cool down past the stoves ability with a short firing run to recover prior temperature.

There is nothing magical about pellet stoves, installed, maintained, and operated correctly they do an excellent job of heating.

If you neglect to provide proper venting you have smoke issues, this is true of any heating device that has a flame and burns wood.
 
My stove is a US Stove 6041. I bought a duravent woodpellet/corn piping kit and had it installed professionally. There is a pipe that comes out of the stove and then connects to a T pipe. Then there are about 3 12†pipes going up which are connected together that lead to a 45 degree pipe (which seems to be where I have most of my issues). There are 2 more 12†pipes connected together which exit the wall through a thimble. Yesterday I noticed that there was alot of black residue around the last pipe that goes through the thimble, it could be from all of the smoke that was billowing into my house yesterday.
 
cheap stove, cheap pellets, cheap pipe if its the big box store stuff. I would use a heavy dose of mill pack in every little seam in that pipe. Mill pak is better than silicone because its much easier to take the pipe apart later for cleaning.
 
Matty,
I'm still trying to figure out why your stove is smoking at all? As long as i have any flame at all in the burnpot i have no smoke out the flue pipe. The only time i ever have any smoke is when i light the stove when the pellets are smoldering just before they light then as soon as they light no more smoke or when i didn't have the damper out far enough when i first got the stove and the pot filled with ash and put the flame out creating a smoldering smokey burnpot. My flue is the same brand as yours but a little shorter mine comes out of the stove to the appliance adapter into the t then up 3' to a 90 then out through the thimble with another 1' piece and then the cap. I sealed all of the inside connection joints with high temp rtv except for the outside cap so i can remove it easy to run the brush or hook the leafblower to.
 
My PL Vent (Selkirk 4" pipe) was thoroughly sealed with silicone by contractors who install several pellet burners per week, and I had leaks at the Tee (out the cap) as well as some leaks from the 45° elbow near the top of my PL vent where the venting exits my basement out through the house. I gooped on RTV silicone all over my 45° elbow, I mean I covered it in high temp silicone to stop the leaks on the elbow as well as I could. On the Tee, I ran a bead of RTV silicone on the outside of the cap seam to seal that off. Once my pellet burner is running (after ignition), there is no smoke smell whatsoever. Even with the leaks in the cap and 45° elbow, exhaust smell was nearly nonexistent once the furnace was running, but bad when it first ignited. However, even after sealing everything with high-temp silicone, during ignition, there is still a slight smoke odor when the pellets first ignite, but it goes away quickly once the flame is going.

I spoke with an engineer at Fahrenheit about PL venting in general - the elbows and tees are notorious for leaks, even if they are sealed with foil tape and the inner pipe is sealed properly. During pellet ignition, smoke is generated as the pellets transition to a burning state, and since the PL vent is cold, the smoke is not drawn up the vent like it is when it's warm. A slight backup occurs and some wood smoke odor results. I also have a good deal of PL vent inside my home, I have a 3' horizontal run to the Tee, then a 6' rise to a 45° elbow, that's all inside my home, only portion of the pipe outside is a couple of feet of horizontal pipe with a cap on the end. This is because my pellet furnace is in my basement. Most go with a short horizontal run right out the back of their house, or go up through a chimney. In those cases, the sealing job is less complicated, and due to the nature of a chimney, if there were small leaks in the PL venting inside, the natural rise of the chimney will take care of any smoke or exhaust leakage. Just my $0.02 from what I've learned over the past week or two.
 
Matty said:
My stove is a US Stove 6041. I bought a duravent woodpellet/corn piping kit and had it installed professionally. There is a pipe that comes out of the stove and then connects to a T pipe. Then there are about 3 12†pipes going up which are connected together that lead to a 45 degree pipe (which seems to be where I have most of my issues). There are 2 more 12†pipes connected together which exit the wall through a thimble. Yesterday I noticed that there was alot of black residue around the last pipe that goes through the thimble, it could be from all of the smoke that was billowing into my house yesterday.

You still have not provided a complete description of the venting.

They must have a termination cap and you should not vent into the prevailing wind where you are.

If that is a 45 degree pipe for the bend going through the wall thimble then you can not possibly have the proper termination cap.

This isn't a guessing game, if that venting was "professionally" installed get the so called "professional" installer back to fix it.
 
SmokeyTheBear said:
You still have not provided a complete description of the venting.

They must have a termination cap and you should not vent into the prevailing wind where you are.

If that is a 45 degree pipe for the bend going through the wall thimble then you can not possibly have the proper termination cap.

This isn't a guessing game, if that venting was "professionally" installed get the so called "professional" installer back to fix it.

I have a 45° elbow basically going through my wall thimble as well, the installer is in the process of ordering me a new termination cap because the one I have vents exhaust out both sides at a 90° angle, and he mentioned that he thought I needed a different type of cap (hence why he ordered another one). Is that the correct termination cap that I should be using on my PL vent? Just curious as I have no clue which is right or wrong. Thanks.

Here are a couple of photos of my termination cap:

IMG_20110106_095112.jpg


IMG_20110106_095122.jpg
 
ChrisWNY said:
SmokeyTheBear said:
You still have not provided a complete description of the venting.

They must have a termination cap and you should not vent into the prevailing wind where you are.

If that is a 45 degree pipe for the bend going through the wall thimble then you can not possibly have the proper termination cap.

This isn't a guessing game, if that venting was "professionally" installed get the so called "professional" installer back to fix it.

I have a 45° elbow basically going through my wall thimble as well, the installer is in the process of ordering me a new termination cap because the one I have vents exhaust out both sides at a 90° angle, and he mentioned that he thought I needed a different type of cap (hence why he ordered another one). Is that the correct termination cap that I should be using on my PL vent? Just curious as I have no clue which is right or wrong. Thanks.

Here are a couple of photos of my termination cap:

IMG_20110106_095112.jpg


IMG_20110106_095122.jpg

Do you also have a vertical section just prior to the "45 degree elbow" going through the wall thimble?

If so lets see how you get from vertical to horizontal using a 45 degree elbow.

ETA: That is one of several correct horizontal termination caps.
 
Here is a quick diagram of how the PL vent is constructed inside the basement, sorry about the low-tech drawing but it's easier to describe this way...

pellet_layout.jpg


There are two 45° elbows near the top of the PL vent, with a short diagonal run of pipe going to another elbow before the whole pipe goes out through the thimble and outside the house. The second 45° elbow goes right into the thimble to that exterior horizontal run I photographed above.

Here is an actual photo of my Fahrenheit furnace showing the bottom portion of that drawing above...

IMG_0988.jpg


Matty - it seems to me that we have a similar PL vent setup, which was why I chimed in on your thread. I can tell you that I had to seal that entire upper 45° elbow with gobs of RTV silicone to really make it air-tight. Any PL venting inside the home must be sealed as air-tight as possible, and since we both have a lot of PL vent inside, it takes more work to ensure the vent is sealed up properly inside and out.
 
Yup, two 45 degree elbows = 90 degrees and that isn't a 45 degree elbow going from vertical to horizontal it is two.

It makes a huge difference.
 
Yeah, I read in the furnace manual that each elbow is equivalent to 5 ft. of venting in terms of the resistance it creates. Now that you know the deal with my vent, do you have any recommendations of anything I should be doing differently? Any suggestions for improvement? should I be using a better termination cap? Thanks for the input to this point.
 
In your case the only thing I'd do differently is shorten both the horizontal run and the OAK. I haven't read the manuals for your furnace but in venting of exhaust systems shorter horizontal runs cause fewer problems.

Also any dips in that OAK should be minimized as well. One should think of anything attached to the air intake to act exactly like the exhaust venting, it should be as short and free of turns as possible. That OAK outlet also should be below the level of your exhaust vent outlet.

Which looks like a problem for your current setup.

Are you having a problem with ash build up, the burn itself, or are you just wondering?

I'm still wondering about the OP's setup, it is something that can be fixed, but first we need to know what is actually there.

There are several other folks with problems here that really need just a few things done to get things running right.
 
I was just curious and wanted a more knowledgeable opinion, Smokey. The OAK inlet is below the exhaust outlet, by several inches (a couple of siding slats lower, if you look at the exhaust photos above, though the OAK inlet is not in the photo), they are several feet away from one another as well, so it's not like the Oak is drawing in exhaust from the termination cap. The burn is clean, I have a nice bright, sharp flame, and ash build up has been minimal. I've run over 5 bags through the furnace and the ash pan isn't even 1/2 full yet. I initially had issues with small exhaust leaks from the tee and the first 45° elbow, which I have since sealed with high-temp silicone. If something was wrong with the PL vent setup, I wouldn't have necessarily known about it, and if I ever had to call the installer to fix it, I would need to have some sort of explanation as to what was done incorrectly.

My only concern is what happens during a power outage, will the overall design of the vent pipe cause a lot of exhaust backup, or will the 6' rise in the pipe be enough to vent most everything out? I've considered a UPS, but since we have a generator (not automated), and our power rarely goes out, I'm not sure the extra expense is really necessary. I wasn't aware of specs on the OAK inlet pipe, all I can say is that the entire thing is ICE cold from drawing in the outside 20°F air, so it seems to be pulling in air without problems. If I noticed a lazy flame or a lot of soot/ash build-up, I would probably need to adjust the damper, but haven't bothered with it since the furnace seems to be operating ok. The small leaks in the exhaust pipe got me thinking, and I wanted to chase down whether or not the install is to blame, or if sealing with high temp silicone was the proper way to correct those small leaks at the elbow joints.
 
The OAK being below the exhaust outlet will help in getting the smoke out of the furnace during a power outage as will the rise in your vent. Once again all venting issues will come into play.

It might pay you to actually pull the plug and find out instead of waiting for it to happen.

I'll bet the furnace will pass the (no) smoke test.
 
The 45° Pellet Vent Pro elbow I purchased had RTV smeared on each connection of the inner liner.
 
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