Softwood vs Hardwood and Savings???

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lessoil

Minister of Fire
May 31, 2008
731
Western Maine
Did a quick calculation and was wondering what you thought.
Example:
Softwood $260/ton and Hardwood $210/ton
Same house/weather/# of tons (4)

Cost:
Softwood $1040 and Hardwood $840.
Difference is $200. So in order to come out even as far as cost goes,
you would have to burn about 39 bags less of the softwood. (Higher heat so fewer bags)

Does this sound right and has anyone seen this difference in use to justify the higher cost of softwood?
 
Did a quick calculation and was wondering what you thought.
Example:
Softwood $260/ton and Hardwood $210/ton
Same house/weather/# of tons (4)

Cost:
Softwood $1040 and Hardwood $840.
Difference is $200. So in order to come out even as far as cost goes,
you would have to burn about 39 bags less of the softwood. (Higher heat so fewer bags)

Does this sound right and has anyone seen this difference in use to justify the higher cost of softwood?

Some hardwood pellets burn as good or close to the softwood types, it comes down to price and quality IMO.
I've had Hamer's Hot Ones ( hardwood) that outperformed any softwood I've used.
 
Softwoods tend to be a bit cleaner than the hardwoods. Slighty more heat. But there are some hardwoods that run right with the softies. So it depends on what brands you are compairing. Apple to apple per say. I got all mussy for the softies when you could score them for far less than the topshelf hardwwods, But things have equaled out and you now pay as much for a good softwood as you do a good hardwood.

You can still find some reasonably priced hot/clean pellets if you do some digging. Pellets aren't always priced by quality. You'll also find some expensive pellets that just don't cut it. With homework you'll find a deal or 2 lurking in the forest. Usually in the middle price range for a cold weather pellet and a shoulder can always be found in the bargin bin.

What brands you looking at?
 
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We have been burning MWP blended the last 2 Winters. We have ordered 3 tons of blended and are waiting for one
ton of their Softwoods which will be made this month. This will be the first time we burn softwood.
I guess based on all the comments about Softwood, I would expect to see quite a difference in usage.
We burn close to 4 tons now with the blend. 24'X32' Cape heating about 1500 sq ft. (First/second floor)

What sticks in my mind is the comment made by the Harman Tech for New England at a seminar.
He stated that if the center of a softwood tree and the center of a hardwood tree were made into pellets there
would be little difference in heat. He did give a "slight" nod to softwoods. The biggest differences are caused
by adding/not adding fillers etc like bark.

Thanks for listening!
 
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We have been burning MWP blended the last 2 Winters. We have ordered 3 tons of blended and are waiting for one
ton of their Softwoods which will be made this month. This will be the first time we burn softwood.
I guess based on all the comments about Softwood, I would expect to see quite a difference in usage.
We burn close to 4 tons now with the blend. 24'X32' Cape heating about 1500 sq ft. (First/second floor)

What sticks in my mind is the comment made by the Harman Tech for New England at a seminar.
He stated that if the center of a softwood tree and the center of a hardwood tree were made into pellets there
would be little difference in heat. He did give a "slight" nod to softwoods. The biggest differences are caused
by adding/not adding fillers etc like bark.

Thanks for listening!

What gives the dramatic differences in heat is size/density(amount you get into the burnpot). Every pellet out there has a slight variation in the amount they are compressed and the physical size/length. Because the stove feeds the fuel by volume the pellet that packs the most volume will give more heat. The draw back is it will also generally use up the hopper content faster unless you turn the feed rate down. A pellet that feeds less volume would last longer and would need to be turned up to match the others heat. The reason I started posting burn lenth in my reviews. Finding a pellet that has excellent heat but lasts a long time is a good balance and I have seen that in both species of pellets.

Softwood fiber contains more lignin that a hardwood fiber. So there is less need for binders to the process. Also rumored to add a wee bit more BTU's. The softwoods like Douglas Fir contain less ash content within the fiber. We have heard many things used as fillers, What these fillers do to the end product is anyones guess. Everything that burns has its own ash content and physical BTU rating. So anything added could increase/decrease the ash content and increase/decrease the BTU content. The variables would make your head spin! I think if we knew what some were really adding? We might not be buying their brands!

I would like to hear the pellet makers that manufacture both chime in and pass on their thoughts on the differences. I have only touched the surface and What I got is just what I fished around for. More like wild guess's . But I'm close in a few area's. The real scientist are the guys making these. Maybe ScotL can chime in? He makes both a softwood and hardwood pellet at the MWP mill. He could shed some light on these.
 
We have been burning MWP blended the last 2 Winters. We have ordered 3 tons of blended and are waiting for one
ton of their Softwoods which will be made this month. This will be the first time we burn softwood.
I guess based on all the comments about Softwood, I would expect to see quite a difference in usage.
We burn close to 4 tons now with the blend. 24'X32' Cape heating about 1500 sq ft. (First/second floor)

What sticks in my mind is the comment made by the Harman Tech for New England at a seminar.
He stated that if the center of a softwood tree and the center of a hardwood tree were made into pellets there
would be little difference in heat. He did give a "slight" nod to softwoods. The biggest differences are caused
by adding/not adding fillers etc like bark.

Thanks for listening!


You're talking a $10 difference between the Softwood and Blend ~ not $50 as in your scenario. I guarantee you will notice a $10/ton difference between the two.
 
You're talking a $10 difference between the Softwood and Blend ~ not $50 as in your scenario. I guarantee you will notice a $10/ton difference between the two.
I should not have put in the 2 prices from MWP in my post.
How about Okanagan vs MWP blend. That would be closer to my scenario.
We paid $209/ton for MWP this last Winter. How much were Okanagan's at that time?

Bottom line: Do people save in the long run by spending more on Softwood initially?
If the answer is no, then I will continue burning MWP and empty the ash
pan more often.
 
I should not have put in the 2 prices from MWP in my post.
How about Okanagan vs MWP blend. That would be closer to my scenario.
We paid $209/ton for MWP this last Winter. How much were Okanagan's at that time?

Bottom line: Do people save in the long run by spending more on Softwood initially?
If the answer is no, then I will continue burning MWP and empty the ash
pan more often.

Actually the MWP blend and the softies could be a good case for comparing. They are made very similar. About the only difference is the fiber species.

I know what your trying to find. But its not an easy answer. Variables will throw curves. What works for me might not work for you. No 2 stoves are the exact same and will react differently to changes. Fuel included. You would need to run your stove with the pellets you want to match head to head. Try to use a day with similar temps and try to keep the house at the same temp with each. Run the stove with each and see how long they last. The pellet that keeps the house warmer can be turned down, The pellet that burns cooler must be turned up to keep it fair.

Now the tough part. Where is the savings? If the pellet that ran the longest is the cheapest? its a no brain-er. Otherwise you need to do some math. Basically price of pelletA x quantity compared to price of pelletB x quantity.

My later pellet testing has temps and length of burn. You might get some clues from them? But I didn post how many days they lasted. I did a couple and kept track of the days, But they were all hardwoods. My stove only stays on long enough to satisfy the thermostat. A hot pellet didn't need to run as long during the day, Where a cooler pellet ran longer. I'll post something if your interested?
 
if i couldn't get the mwp softies for $235 delivered, i probably would never have tried them.
i did fine with the blend this year. but for just $20 more a ton, i can satisfy my curiosity.
my real hope is is not so much to save a lot of money (i really don't see that happening) but to burn the softies when it's 20 below and not have to run the stove on high for long periods.
 
What gives the dramatic differences in heat is size/density(amount you get into the burnpot). Every pellet out there has a slight variation in the amount they are compressed and the physical size/length. Because the stove feeds the fuel by volume the pellet that packs the most volume will give more heat. The draw back is it will also generally use up the hopper content faster unless you turn the feed rate down. A pellet that feeds less volume would last longer and would need to be turned up to match the others heat. The reason I started posting burn lenth in my reviews. Finding a pellet that has excellent heat but lasts a long time is a good balance and I have seen that in both species of pellets.

Softwood fiber contains more lignin that a hardwood fiber. So there is less need for binders to the process. Also rumored to add a wee bit more BTU's. The softwoods like Douglas Fir contain less ash content within the fiber. We have heard many things used as fillers, What these fillers do to the end product is anyones guess. Everything that burns has its own ash content and physical BTU rating. So anything added could increase/decrease the ash content and increase/decrease the BTU content. The variables would make your head spin! I think if we knew what some were really adding? We might not be buying their brands!

I would like to hear the pellet makers that manufacture both chime in and pass on their thoughts on the differences. I have only touched the surface and What I got is just what I fished around for. More like wild guess's . But I'm close in a few area's. The real scientist are the guys making these. Maybe ScotL can chime in? He makes both a softwood and hardwood pellet at the MWP mill. He could shed some light on these.


Our tests on softwood have been a little over 8500 BTU/lb and the 60/40 blend has been 8250 BTU/lb. They've been staying close to those values every test (we've had WAY more of the blend tests than the softwood tests but I still trust the softwood results). Between the labs and the university, they tell me the biggest difference is the resin content. There's more resin in pine and it burns hotter than cellulose. Maybe that's correct, maybe not. But, the results seem to be consistent.

There are some difficulties with making all softwood pellets. For us, the softwood starts out very wet. We don't have a large supply of pre-dried or dead-on-the-stump softwood so we have to dry it all. It also requires a larger volume of softwood to create pellets that are the correct density because the softwood is less dense to begin with. Throughput is lower and raw material consumption is higher so the softwood pellets are more expensive to manufacture.

As far as binding, I don't use any binders or fillers at all no matter what type of wood we're using. There are certain species of wood we won't buy because they don't make good pellets. The blend of the raw material is critical. You can make 100% wood pellets without using additives. It does require using the correct effective length dies and some practice - there are at least 6 factors that have to be just right. Softwood pellets require a much longer effective length than hardwood. In fact, you can't get hardwood through a softwood die - it will plug up and break the shear pins on the machine.

Speaking of binders and their secret use - you may find United States Patent: 4529407 an interesting read.
 
Our tests on softwood have been a little over 8500 BTU/lb and the 60/40 blend has been 8250 BTU/lb. They've been staying close to those values every test (we've had WAY more of the blend tests than the softwood tests but I still trust the softwood results). Between the labs and the university, they tell me the biggest difference is the resin content. There's more resin in pine and it burns hotter than cellulose. Maybe that's correct, maybe not. But, the results seem to be consistent.

There are some difficulties with making all softwood pellets. For us, the softwood starts out very wet. We don't have a large supply of pre-dried or dead-on-the-stump softwood so we have to dry it all. It also requires a larger volume of softwood to create pellets that are the correct density because the softwood is less dense to begin with. Throughput is lower and raw material consumption is higher so the softwood pellets are more expensive to manufacture.

As far as binding, I don't use any binders or fillers at all no matter what type of wood we're using. There are certain species of wood we won't buy because they don't make good pellets. The blend of the raw material is critical. You can make 100% wood pellets without using additives. It does require using the correct effective length dies and some practice - there are at least 6 factors that have to be just right. Softwood pellets require a much longer effective length than hardwood. In fact, you can't get hardwood through a softwood die - it will plug up and break the shear pins on the machine.

Speaking if binders and their secret use - you may find United States Patent: 4529407 an interesting read.


Thanks Scot! Good information. Especially about the binders.
 
Thanks Scot for the feedback!
In our situation, your product has worked very well.
Keep up the good work. 4 tons MWP ordered for next Winter from Steve at SIB.
 
I don't know if there is that much difference between a quality hardwood or softwood pellet but there is a big difference between a quality pellet and a shoulder pellet. I will no longer waste money on a shoulder pellet, just can't get the heat out of them!
 
I don't know if there is that much difference between a quality hardwood or softwood pellet but there is a big difference between a quality pellet and a shoulder pellet. I will no longer waste money on a shoulder pellet, just can't get the heat out of them!

With prices climbing, There is a time and place for shoulder pellets for some of us. If the dollars aren't an issue? Sure I'm with you. But if I have to save a dime, I'm gonna do it in the shoulder season where a pellet that isn't as hot can work for me. But I can't skimp in the cold season! No way will I ever be cold again. As I get older the more I love having a warm house. We all do what we need to get by as comfy as possible.

There's a bunch of reasonably priced pellets in my area, I sometimes can find one that rivals the topshelf stuff with some digging. Enough heat to handle the cold as well. But it usually requires a little work sorting through them. But thats the fun part! ;)
 
I don't get it. 8500 for the soft and 8250 for the blend. I don't know how I could say one was better than the other unless it is how they burn. My blended MWP burn as clean as anything I have burned. I guess the only thing left for me to do is to try some and see for myself how or why these could be so much better.
 
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