Steel vs. Poly brush, in home comparrison.

[Hogwildz]

As most know after so many lingering debates, I normally use a Rutland steel chimney sweeping brush.
This summer, I saw a poly brush and said, ah to hell with it, gonna try it.
I was lazy again this year and just cleaned the liner a week or so ago, (forget) when we had a balmy, stifling 38 degree day.
I carry the step ladder up on the roof as usual, with my two 6 packs of rods, the screw gun to loosen and remove the cap, and the poly brush this time.
It takes more time to carry all the crap up there than to sweep the dame thing.

The cap & 2' of pipe outside the old flue were pretty caked, which I kind of expected, because I burned a lot of crap wood and less than desirable wood this fall.
So i put the poly to work, giving the steel a rest this year. From what I read in the past, I expected the poly to be a lil tighter than the steel, especially when I got down to the 5' flex section at the bottom.
To my surprise, the poly was a much looser fit, which actually made for more work for me, more wiggling, turning and trying to get a good scrap of the bristles against the interior of the pipe.
In my case, the poly also did not clean as well as the steel does. leaving a very thin black coating, almost like a stain on the inside wall of the piping.
The steel would leave not spotless, but no single layer, just a few brush scrub streaks etc.
Now maybe it is better not to get as close as the steel does, for fear of wearing the piping or protective layer/coating etc. But definitely gets cleaner and closer.
I will see what it looks like next fall, and try the poly once more. if the outcome is the same. I may stick with the poly just to keep from scratching the interior of the pipe for fear of exposing it to more wear & tear & premature corrosion. Maybe I'll use the poly, but every 3rd year or so just send the steel down to give a good fresh thorough clean. Who knows.
All in all, the piping looks great inside, which at season 4 it should. Everything is tight and looking good.
In my own opinion, either does a decent job, the steel a bit cleaner. Not sure what damage the steel would cause after years. Maybe some, maybe none. Honestly, I think using either, the liner will still outlast me.

 

[SKIN052]

leaving a very thin black coating, almost like a stain on the inside wall of the piping.

Was the Chimney cooled downed before you cleaned it? Sounds like you may have melted the poly brush. It should not leave a stain.

 

[pgmr]

I don't think that scratching, itself, is the main concern. The problem with a carbon steel brush, IIRC, is that microscopic bits of the brush wires can become embedded in the stainless liner, giving corrosion a foothold.

 

[burleymike]

I had a similar experience with my new poly brush. It looked like somebody spray painted the inside of the liner with a super thin layer of black paint that just would not brush off except for the occasional flake. The only thing I can think of is it is from the oil the manufacturer coated the interior of the liner with.

 

[thewoodlands]

[quote author="Hogwildz" here are some pics of the cleaning with the poly brush we use, our pipe is DuraTech double-wall. We haven't had that problem yet.


zap

 

[burntime]

When I run my poly down the flex liner it cleans right up. It is also snug. Not super tight but its not gonna fall down on its own either...

 

[pen]

Just cleaned my chimney for the first time today since installing the stainless liner. I bought a poly brush for cleaning the stainless. I don't have any complaints as it seemed to do just fine getting this liner clean. I would say that if I let go of my brush w/ a bunch of rods on it in the liner, that it certainly isn't going to go falling down the chimney, but it's not so tight that I wasn't worried about letting go the first time.

pen

 

[Hogwildz]

leaving a very thin black coating, almost like a stain on the inside wall of the piping.

Was the Chimney cooled downed before you cleaned it? Sounds like you may have melted the poly brush. It should not leave a stain.

LMAO, insert & liner were cool.
Not saying the brush would fall down in, although it felt like it might at the flex section. But at that point its near the insert.
I must admit, I was mistaken. The steel brush is by Imperial, the poly by Rutland.

No offense Zap, but you left a good bit of crud still in the stack, and you can see where the brush didn't even touch & sweep.
You should spin the brush and go up & down a few more times to obtain contact with all the surface inside the stack.
Just me, on mine the entire area gets swept, poly or steel.

As far as oils, at 4th season for this liner, I am pretty sure those manufacturing oils are long gone.
I'll see how it looks next fall.

 

[thewoodlands]

leaving a very thin black coating, almost like a stain on the inside wall of the piping.

Was the Chimney cooled downed before you cleaned it? Sounds like you may have melted the poly brush. It should not leave a stain.

LMAO, insert & liner were cool.
Not saying the brush would fall down in, although it felt like it might at the flex section. But at that point its near the insert.
I must admit, I was mistaken. The steel brush is by Imperial, the poly by Rutland.

No offense Zap, but you left a good bit of crud still in the stack, and you can see where the brush didn't even touch & sweep.
You should spin the brush and go up & down a few more times to obtain contact with all the surface inside the stack.
Just me, on mine the entire area gets swept, poly or steel.

Hogwildz the first picture is before the cleaning and the second after, could it be done better yes is there alot left no.

zap

 

[Hogwildz]

No problemo, if your satisfied, that is all that counts.

 

[BrotherBart]

Since my liners are 5.5" and brushes for them are in the hen's teeth category I use one of the soft six inch poly brushes made for pre-fab chimneys. I only do a one pull down cleaning so there is always a light black coating in them afterward. Same as it is gonna be after the next burn anyway.

 

[webby3650]

The Rutland poly brushes, as well as some others, aren't near the quality of a Pro brush, even if they say Pro on the box. To get a good Poly it must come from a Wholesaler in my opinion. A good Poly should fit tight and never feel like it might "fall", if this is the case then the brush is too small.

 

[BrotherBart]

The Rutland poly brushes, as well as some others, aren't near the quality of a Pro brush, even if they say Pro on the box. To get a good Poly it must come from a Wholesaler in my opinion. A good Poly should fit tight and never feel like it might "fall", if this is the case then the brush is too small.

And just what brand are we looking for? And I believe you mean "distributor", not wholesaler. Like Sooty Bob.

 

[madrone]

I've tried both and agree that the steel brush gets the chimney cleaner in a single pull. I'm torn on the corrosion concern. I won't argue the possibility of carbon steel imbedding in the surface of the SS, which could compromise the protective oxide layer. I'm not convinced it will lead to significant early failure though. Any sweeps ever seen evidence first hand?

 

[BrotherBart]

I've tried both and agree that the steel brush gets the chimney cleaner in a single pull. I'm torn on the corrosion concern. I won't argue the possibility of carbon steel imbedding in the surface of the SS, which could compromise the protective oxide layer. I'm not convinced it will lead to significant early failure though. Any sweeps ever seen evidence first hand?

When the concern was brought up here a few years ago it was in regard to the thin stainless corrugated liners. But I have talked to one long time pro in this business and they have been cleaning all stainless pipe and liners for twelve years with steel brushes without a single liner failure.

 

[webby3650]

The Rutland poly brushes, as well as some others, aren't near the quality of a Pro brush, even if they say Pro on the box. To get a good Poly it must come from a Wholesaler in my opinion. A good Poly should fit tight and never feel like it might "fall", if this is the case then the brush is too small.

And just what brand are we looking for? And I believe you mean "distributor", not wholesaler. Like Sooty Bob.

Exactly, see you knew what I meant to say Copperfield is a very good source. We get most of our supplies from them or National Chimney Supply. I personally don't see the corrosion being a real problem, the brush can cause more corrosion than creosote? I just don't feel that a steel brush is necessary, I have never cleaned a SS lined flue that didn't come clean with a Poly brush.

 

[Mcbride]

I tried a poly brush years ago, after giving it 2 tries, sold it in a garage sale.
My steel brush is vastly superior in my opinion.

 

[JotulOwner]

[quote author="Hogwildz" here are some pics of the cleaning with the poly brush we use, our pipe is DuraTech double-wall. We haven't had that problem yet.


zap

Your after photo is exactly what I was talking about in my separate topic titled "Brush Question" (I didn't see this posting at the time). Anyway, maybe I am being too picky, but, when I am done cleaning something, I like to see all of the crapola gone. The bristles in a rigid brush tend to miss a lot of spots. I was wondering if a softer 8" brush would be better for removing more of the light powder stuff.

 

[JotulOwner]

[quote author="Hogwildz" here are some pics of the cleaning with the poly brush we use, our pipe is DuraTech double-wall. We haven't had that problem yet.


zap

Your after photo is exactly what I was talking about in my separate topic titled "Brush Question" (I didn't see this posting at the time). Anyway, maybe I am being too picky, but, when I am done cleaning something, I like to see all of the crapola gone. The bristles in a rigid brush tend to miss a lot of spots. I was wondering if a softer 8" brush would be better for removing more of the light powder stuff.

oops.... here is the link to the softer brush. http://www.northlineexpress.com/item/5RU-PF-8/8-SweepsAll-Brush

 

[thechimneysweep]

We've been sweeping stainless liners with steel brushes for over 31 years now, both the built-in liners in manufactured chimneys and stainless relines in masonry chimneys. Several types of stainless have been involved, including 304, 304L, 316, 316L and even, if memory serves, a couple of 400 series blends. For the past ten years or so, this has included the "new" ultra-thin 316Ti liners. We've replaced a few manufactured chimneys and stainless liners over the years, but always in the aftermath of one or more chimney fires that buckled the liner, or after repeated exposure to the exhaust from burning chemicals or salt-impregnated wood. We bought poly brushes for all the trucks when they first came out, but the Sweeps don't use them: the universal feeling here is that steel brushes do a faster, more thorough job.

 

[Hogwildz]

We've been sweeping stainless liners with steel brushes for over 31 years now, both the built-in liners in manufactured chimneys and stainless relines in masonry chimneys. Several types of stainless have been involved, including 304, 304L, 316, 316L and even, if memory serves, a couple of 400 series blends. For the past ten years or so, this has included the "new" ultra-thin 316Ti liners. We've replaced a few manufactured chimneys and stainless liners over the years, but always in the aftermath of one or more chimney fires that buckled the liner, or after repeated exposure to the exhaust from burning chemicals or salt-impregnated wood. We bought poly brushes for all the trucks when they first came out, but the Sweeps don't use them: the universal feeling here is that steel brushes do a faster, more thorough job.

Thanks Tom ;-) NOw I don't feel like just a hard headed stubborn SOB, even though I might just be LOL.

 

[Green Energy]

Well I did not check the brain trust here and just got a 6" poly brush for my 316t liner per the manufacturer's instructions. Tight enough fit that I am sure that the brush/rods are not going to slide down if I let go to screw on another rod, but not too tight - easy enough to push it down and pull it up. Seems to be clean from what I can see of it. I am only getting about 3-6 oz of powder so I guess the poly brush is fine for now.