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Summer DWH options

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by MaineGuy, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. MaineGuy

    MaineGuy New Member

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    This summer I will be installing a Garn Jr. I hope. 95% sure at this point. Right now I heat my hot water with my owb in the winter and an oil boiler in the summer with an indirect (amtrol) water heater which is used with either wood or oil. I want to do away with heating hot water with oil in the summer and hopefully eventually eliminating my oil boiler all together. I don't really see the point in keeping the oil boiler just to heat water in the summer. And I'm thinking about adding the electric option to the garn for a backup. Since we don't really go anywhere for too long in the wintertime.

    The way I see it is I have a few options. I'd like to stick with electric of some sort. I have LP on site but would like to have something that doesn't rely on a fuel source that gets delivered on a truck. I'm heating water for a family of 4. 2 adults and 2 children (7 years old Yes there twins)

    The 3 options I'm thinking about are:

    1) a hybrid electric water heater
    2) an ordinary electric water heater
    3) I'm not sure if its possible, but was wondering if I could use an electric tankless water heater to heat the water in my indirect water heater tank? I'd be interested if anyone is doing or has tried doing this? Or maybe even just use a tankless electric water heater without a tank?

    It appears there is going to be about 5-600 dollars difference in the initial setup. I've read good and bad reviews on the hybrid electric water heaters. Anyone have a recommendation on what brand would be the best if I plan to go that route.

    Any advice or previous experiences with any of these setup would be greatly appreciated.

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  2. iceguy4

    iceguy4 Minister of Fire

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    I Love my HP HW heater...Honestly, it eliminates the necessity of a dehumidifier ...virtually invisible on my electric bill...
    BoilerMan likes this.
  3. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    I'll second the HPWH. If you use the add-on unit you can still use your indirect with the wood. Nyletherm1 for $365 on ebay.

    An electric tankless will require a 200amp service.

    TS
  4. DZL_Damon

    DZL_Damon Member

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    There are lots of Nyle and Hallowell heat pumps on Maine craigslist for $300. I'm happy with mine. Newer ones might be a dite more efficient... but... $300
    BoilerMan likes this.
  5. STIHLY DAN

    STIHLY DAN Feeling the Heat

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    So NH
    I don't know whats best, but my ge with the indirect tied into it for the wood furnace works great no issues and a 10 yr warranty. I love the dehumidification, use hot water all the time in the summer just for that.
    flyingcow likes this.
  6. iceguy4

    iceguy4 Minister of Fire

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    lol me too:p
  7. MaineGuy

    MaineGuy New Member

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    Well I have a 200 amp service already. I'm somewhat intrigued by the heat pump water heaters. I see the ones on ebay for 365 and there's some used units on craigslist for $135 I think I would rather pay 365 for a new old stock unit. what is involved in hooking up one of these? Can I use one to heat the water in the indirect water heater I have now? Anyone have a good source of information, wiring diagrams, plumbing schematics, etc?
  8. jeffesonm

    jeffesonm Feeling the Heat

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    central NJ
    Another heat pump water heater vote... it's only been a few months but haven't noticed much of a blip on the electric bill. I went with the GE GeoSpring which had some nice state/power co rebates (plus federal 25c if you haven't used that yet). You can some install pics here. It hooked up just like a regular electric water heater, plus someplace to drain the condensate.

    Haven't yet decided if it's worth the trouble to make fires in the summer just for DHW but I'm leaning towards no at this point...
  9. mustash29

    mustash29 Feeling the Heat

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    If you are thinking about the GE GeoSpring HPWH, consider taking a day trip to CT. Lowes has them for 599.
  10. tom in maine

    tom in maine Minister of Fire

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    I am now the technical support guy for the ones on Ebay and on Maine Craigslist.
    We are presently selling new old stock Nyletherms for $300 plus tax in Maine. If you want them shipped they are $365.
    There is a video on YouTube. Just search for Nyletherm. We warranty them for 30 days to not be DOA. They operate on 240vac.

    New Geysers are $850 for the ones that tie into electric water heaters. The units for other tanks (Geyser RO) are $900. You can purchase them directly from Nyle.
    They no longer sell through dealers. Geysers carry a one year warranty. The Geysers operate on 120vac.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  11. kopeck

    kopeck Minister of Fire

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    Maine
    Another vote for the HPHW heater.

    I had a bit of a bumpy road with mine but in the end I was very pleased.

    K
  12. avc8130

    avc8130 Minister of Fire

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    I installed an electric water heater in 2012 for summer DHW.

    Had I known about these add-on heat pumps, I would have used that to make my super-store indirect an electric water heater.

    If you use a "tankless" setup as of now, get a combo unit. The $599 in CT GE is a heck of a steal.

    ac
  13. brant2000

    brant2000 Burning Hunk

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    I agree with the HPHW. You could also check into other "add-on" options that may work well if you already have a domestic hot water tank. The unit I'm using is an Airtap A7. Not sure if they're still available, as they seemed to fizzle out, but I haven't had any issues with it. I actually got more back in state and federal credits/refunds than the unit cost to purchase (I bought it about 3 years ago for $585). I know that Nyle also makes an add-on unit, that you may be able to find.

    The only thing to note, is that depending on what the climate is like, the cooling effect can eliminate the dehumidification benefits. I have had times when my basement gets so cool in the spring/early summer that I have had issues with mold.
  14. MaineGuy

    MaineGuy New Member

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    Thanks for all the input, right now I'm thinking about going with a geyser RO, it appears I can hook this unit into my boilermate tank. I'm trying to find out right now if this qualifies for our states $300 rebate. Plus I just found out there actually made about 30 miles from where I am.

    I'm hoping with a geyser I will be able to use my boilermate with the garn and also have the geyser hooked up for summer use.

    Again thank you, I wasn't really aware of the add on heat pump water heaters until you people mentioned it here on the forum.
  15. avc8130

    avc8130 Minister of Fire

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    Unfortunately, in NJ the Geyser does NOT qualify for the $500 rebate available as it is NOT Energy Star rated.

    ac
  16. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    I've been very happy with the Nyletherm from Tom (didn't know if I was allowed to say that Tom). I'm a licensed refrigeration tech among other things, and you can't build an air-to-water setup for what Tom is selling these for. Very good ROI!

    I'm always trying to get people to buy these, bang for the buck there is no better deal out there!

    FYI, just because something is not energy star rated is no reason not to buy it, or think it will save you less $$$$ than something that was energy star qualified.

    TS
  17. MaineGuy

    MaineGuy New Member

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    I'm not so worried about energy star, its the rebate that I'd like. If I can't get a rebate on the geyser I'll most likely buy a nyletherm from Tom.
  18. Vizsla

    Vizsla New Member

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    ewdudley likes this.
  19. avc8130

    avc8130 Minister of Fire

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    It's not that I care about the Energy Star rating to proves it's efficient, I care because it unlocks a $500 rebate in NJ.

    ac
  20. BoilerMan

    BoilerMan Minister of Fire

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    I knew that, I was just saying that the yellow sticker doesn't say the whole story.

    TS
  21. MaineGuy

    MaineGuy New Member

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    I got my nyletherm 1 up and running last Wednesday evening. Its been humming along making hot water. So far I'm very pleased, it's quite a bit quieter than I was expecting it to be. I'm just using a strap on aquastat between the return line that comes off the top of my boilermate. The Heated water gets returned to the boilermate at the bottom. It not really set up the most efficient right now. But it will do for the summer. I'm supposed to be picking up a Garn Jr this Friday so I'll be moving the boilermate and the heatpump to the basement where the new garn will be installed. sWhen I re-install it in the basement I'll try to put a sensor on the bottom of the tank where the boilermate sensor is I think if I remember correctly. The heatpump comes on and off quite a bit but I think its because the pipe cools down so it kicks on and heats the pipe up and the shuts back off.

    I just wanted to post and update and say So far I'm very pleased with the unit. I have noticed the oil burner is running much less than it used too. Which is a good thing
  22. infinitymike

    infinitymike Minister of Fire

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    Can these units be used with an indirect hot water heater or are they only used as a supplement to an electric water heater?
    I have a Weil Mclain 40 gallon gold plus hooked up to be heated either by wood or oil.
    I hooked it up a year after getting the Wood Gun hooked up and last summer was the first time I burned wood to heat the water.
    Quite honestly, after burning all of last winter, all of last summer and all off this brutally cold winter I kinda wanna take a break from burning.
    But I don't want to buy a stand alone electric water heater.
    woodsmaster likes this.
  23. MaineGuy

    MaineGuy New Member

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    I've got mine hooked up to an Amtrol Boiler mate. It will circulate your potable water so you can keep your boiler hooked up. It was a pretty simple install. And Tom is great if you have any questions. There is a resistor you have to install but it's simple once you get better instructions from Tom.

    It basically took me an afternoon to install.
  24. KenLockett

    KenLockett Member

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    What is a HP HW heater?
  25. infinitymike

    infinitymike Minister of Fire

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    So that means I would still need to use either oil or wood as a primary source of heating the water and this unit would be an add on supplement.

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