Taco 0012 Problems..... Not pumping?

[deerefanatic]

Hi everybody...... I'm having problems with my primary loop pump. It's a 0012 running horizontally (pumps water left to right when facing the "bottom" of the pump motor.. The motor is also oriented horizontally......

My problem is, I think there is an air pocket trapped in the housing of the pump.. When I turn it on, it buzzes.......... Sounds sorta like the outdoor unit of a central air conditioner...... Not a nice quiet whoosh like the 007's or Grundfos that I have..... Also, I filled my loops with well water to test for leaks (cold stuff, like 55F) and let the 0012 run for a while. The motor gets HOT (140F) and the housing itself got to about 80F while the rest of the primary loop piping stayed around 65F.... that leads me to believe that there's a water pocket inside the pump housing keeping it from actually pumping water.....

My question is this, could a guy drill and tap the housing on top to let the air out and then put a small bolt in it when done purging? Ive seen other pumps (irrigation pumps for one) that do this, they just use a standard machine bolt with a rubber washer under the head when the bolt is in place.......

 

[deerefanatic]

I might add that the 007's got hot too when running (around 125F)... Seems that the motors on Taco pumps are not cooled by the water like Grundfos pumps are...... (And I know that the 007's were circulating because I could see the water pushing the air pockets out of my DHW heat exchangers when I kicked them on.....)

As a last note, all temps are measured by a Raytek non-contact thermometer........

 

[leaddog]

It sounds like you have air pockets and they could be anywhere in the system. When I fill my system I try to have it so I can open and close valves so I can back fill in both directions. The higher well water press will purge air better than circ. pumps. You might have to open a fitting down from the pump to purge it also. It's very easy to air lock.
leaddog

 

[deerefanatic]

I don't think there are air pockets anywhere else in the system as all the piping runs uphill to the airscoop which has an air vent on it...... I think the pocket is in the circ itself...... grr...... I'm thinking I will go ahead and drill/tap the housing to bleed the air from the pump...... Then plug with a cap screw.......

 

[atlarge54]

I have a pressurized system and bled out air at the pump by loosening the flange bolts until the air escaped and water sprayed out. I'm sure there's a better and safer way but it worked fine for me. I used a rag to deflect the spray. Be careful not to join the Darwin list.

 

[atlarge54]

I don't think there are air pockets anywhere else in the system as all the piping runs uphill to the airscoop which has an air vent on it...... I think the pocket is in the circ itself...... grr...... I'm thinking I will go ahead and drill/tap the housing to bleed the air from the pump...... Then plug with a cap screw.......

###### A straight threaded bolt is not designed to seal. You'll need a taper pipe plug.

 

[jebatty]

I was plagued by the same problem, but the fix was simple - mount the circ in a vertical run of pipe per the directions. I also found that when the pump operated with an air lock, it really got hot. I use Taco 007.

 

[deerefanatic]

Yah, I tried loosening the flange bolts......... Didn't do it............

I hate to try and mount this thing vertically because I have a large amount of parts involved in horizontal orientation.... But looks like that will be my best bet.........

As for the cap screw not sealing....... It will when you put a rubber washer under the head of it...

 

[mpilihp]

Hmmm didnt know you are not soposed to mount taco pumps horizontally, because of logistics thats just how I was planning on doing it. On the bottom input pipe to the wood boiler. No way/place to mount it horizontally unless I put it on the top output side of the pump but then Id be relying on pressure to allow me to pull the water up and out, doesnt sound like that will work at all.

Do others have pumps mounted horizontally sucessfully??

~ Phil

 

[steam man]

I am kind of in the same situation since I am currently installing a pump. I am going to try to mount vertically pumping up (as recommended). It just makes the piping scheme more complicated.

Mike

 

[deerefanatic]

Supposedly you can mount horizontally...... It will work fine...... IF you can get the air purged out......... I think the smaller 007's would be ok because the housing is smaller and should be easier to purge the water out of.......

 

[Bob Rohr]

right from the Taco install sheet.

If you burp at the flanges and no air comes out, the airlock is elsewhere. Or the impeller is stuck, or the shaft is broken, etc.

hr

 

[deerefanatic]

Not necessarily......

Have you ever seen a 0012? It is Massive! The housing is bigger than the flanges..... So, if horizontal, you can burp the flanges and still have water in the housing..... No, the pump's not completely airlocked, but any air in the housing will disrupt the mechanics of the pump......

Flange and shaft are fine..... brand new pump.

 

[Bob Rohr]

Ideally the pump was installed with iso flanges on both sides. With both turned off, you could losen the 4 bolts that hold the motor to the impeller cartridge then burp, by slowly opening the valve.

It's pretty rare that you would have to burp at the pump if an air purger is downstream and you have good purge valves installed. You should be able to use the system pressure to power purge. This pushes air and any debris out of the system.

hr

 

[deerefanatic]

No, unfortunately no iso flanges for this pump... Only pump in the circuit that doesn't have them.... Heck, I don't even know where you'd get them... Spent days just trying to find the regular iron flanges for this thing...... (0012 is a unique animal......)

I thought of burping at the pump casing.... But, I've bought the plumbing parts needed to plumb this baby vertically...... So that will fix my problem for good....

 

[heaterman]

A 0012 is a high volume, medium to low head circulator. The sweet spot would be about 18-25GPM at a head of 10-12 feet. Could you describe the piping that the circ is connected to in terms of pipe/tube diameter and length of the loop? Maybe that would shed some light on the subject and help find an answer for you.

That being said, a normal flow rate for that circ would mean it's connected to a load of probably 200,000 btu's or higher, all the way up to 350,000 or so. What kind of heat emitter is it connected to, or, is it just circulating a primary loop?

 

[deerefanatic]

High, the pump is installed in a primary loop.... the loop is all 2" black iron, about 21 feet full length........ Just pumps the water around in circles.......

 

[Bob Rohr]

you could have more pump then you need?

How many gpm, or btu's are you trying to "stir" around that loop. Running a circ way off it's curve can easily cause the overheating condition. You may be at run out on the curve, the lower right hand end. Notice most pump curves end before they reach that point on the curve. Because the manufacturer does not want to run it under that condition. If you have a valve in that primary loop try closing it down a bit to add some resistence, or head, for the pump to work against. see what happens as up bring the pump up it's curve a bit. show us a drawing and give us the load and we can help maybe.

The Taco TD09 tech doc I mentioned in another post describes this pump to system relationship, cause and effects.

hr

 

[deerefanatic]

Ahh, I noticed that the curve ended... Didn't know about what that was all about....... Hmm. No valves in the primary loop.. Guess I'll have to put one in.....

 

[beavah]

make sure that the pump is not an ifc pump, internal flow check, those pumps suck , the flow check holds air like crazy and they need constant purging, if it is just pull the check out of the outlet side of the pump and problem solved

 

[deerefanatic]

It's not an IFC pump. I moved the pump around so it is running vertically, with the discharge facing up... No possible way to have an air pocket that way. Still no flow. So I took the motor apart and sat the motor on the shop floor and applied juice to it.... Motor hums, impellor doesn't turn.... Turns out the impellor shaft was broken...... New cartridge on the way..

Probably rough handling in shipment I'm assuming.... The seller on eBay who sold it to me was cool about it.. They refunded me the cost of a new cartridge for it....