Tarm or EKO

[lawandorder]

Current thoughts have us purchasing a gassifier this year. We were planning on a two car garage also. (Looks like home equity loan gets a workout)
Questions:
Differences between the Tarm or EKO are they major or just fluff. I am partial to the Tarm only because right now they offer complete setups with storage etc... But they dont have any reps in upstate ny that i could find. EKO has one two counties over but is that a big deal??? IF we decide to do it I am guessing that storage should be done at the start. We are looking at putting a boiler room attached to the outside of the rear of the garage with a seperate outside entrance. What size of a room would be preffered.

If we do this I would rather do it right the first time and get it over with now rather than doing things piece by piece.

Thanks for the information and all your help this site has become an automatic morning ritual with my coffee and breakfast. ALso I spoke with local oil company yesterday and they anticipate 5.50 gal prebuy costs in Aug/Sep for heating oil. It is currently 4.29 in northeast NY.

 

[webbie]

Tarm has a longer history, which is a feather in the cap, but EKO is a unit that a lot of people here are happy with also. I think the EKO may cost a bit less.

I don't think you can go wrong with either unit. I would suggest doing the whole thing correctly with storage from the start.....as to the room size, that depends on what else you are going to store in there (wood, water storage?).....if it is just the boiler, you can make it just big enough for the clearances and to be able to work on the system (clean, etc.).

Wow, at 5.50 a gallon electric heat starts to look very good. I may be wrong, but I predict a lower price than that. I told a friend NOT to prebuy......but that is pure guesswork.

 

[Willman]

Wow, at 5.50 a gallon

I just got off the phone with my oil company. Contract for next year on budget will be $4.19 plus 25 cents a gallon for downside protection which brings a gal up to $4.44, and that price is only good till this fri.
Will

 

[Eric Johnson]

The EKO has a few more bells and whistles (turbulators that double as heat exchanger cleaners) for a bit less money. It also has some nice features like a blower that starts up periodically during idle to keep the coal bed alive and modulating speed on the blowers so that they slow down as the temp in the boiler rises.

You read very few complaints about either brand here in the Boiler Room. Like Craig says, I think either one would be a good choice. Other gasifiers with similar design are the Biomax, Econoburn and Wood Gun.

 

[EricV]

There seems to be quite a few of each of those units here on the board and I don't recall hearing any complaints on either. I know, that doesn't help at all.

 

[Redox]

Might I also suggest discounting the relative proximity of the dealer as you are going to find more experience and knowledge right here in the Boiler Room? You guys are out there on the "fringe" of central heating as far as most are concerned!

I think the VS fan on the EKO would tip it in my favor if I had to decide on one. Process modulation is the key to efficiency in just about any application, but then again, I sell/service drives in my current line of work, so I'm biased.

Chris

 

[Paul]

I have been reading the info on this site for a while to help in my heating choice. I have been using a oil wood combo furnace and need to replace it.
I've decided to switch to gassification boiler with a heat exchanger in my duct work. I have narrowed my choice to Tarm, Woodgun or Eko. All are close in price due to Uro and US$.
I am not able to afford lg storage at this point so need one that will work to heat my 2500sq ft. home without it. (hope to add in storage when I can find cheap propane tank(s) may take a while)
Tarm- great warranty but concerned with operation without extra water storage.
Woodgun- only 20yr warranty on stainless option -6yr on steel- good shutdown cycle for better use without storage
- also large refractory will need to be replaced in +-10yrs ($800)
Eko - puzzling me- looks great - but the Canadian distributor will only give a 2 yr warranty- says factory offers one year and any extra is given by local distributors that are only as good as long distributor is in business?

I wish there was a clear winner for which one is better. Spending the money to set up is necessary but I would like it to work for a very long time with as little trouble as possible.

 

[Nofossil]

As far as I can tell, you have three good choices, and no bad ones. Wish the presidential race was like that ;-)

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Hate to rain on your parade but. . . . I'm going to ;-)

Do NOT borrow against your house in this economy and RE market.

I have no advice on the units you're considering, though if you go with Tarm, get them to apply my deposit from a couple of years ago to your purchase, and I'll split it with ya :coolsmile:

 

[free75degrees]

Do NOT borrow against your house in this economy and RE market.

What if the loan payment is lower than the oil bill he would be otherwise paying? I think that makes it a no brainer.

 

[Paul]

As I am trying to reduce costs in my endevour to switch to gassification: Is the electricity cost to operate the pumps and fans on the different models any different. Or am I over thinking this as usual? I think the would gun has a larger motor on it to pull the air through the unit?
Also wondering if the amount of chimney draw required for different units is something to be concerned with.

 

[lawandorder]

yeah, I already know i have to replace the wood stove in the living room which is 30 yrs old and has issues. Even with the newer stove I am still looking at 700-800 gals for heat/dhw which in NY looks like $5-$6 a gallon which puts next years fuel bill at 350-450 a month even if I budget it for 12 months. THats pretty much the monthly payment for the boiler plus the garage and the tax benefits in the interest deductions. ANy thoughts???

 

[Geno]

I spend some time watching commodity investments, trends and forecasts that are predicting crude reaching at least $150-$200 a barrel this fall. I have seen existing prices from different retailers ranging from $3.93-$4.29 for fuel oil today. At this point, I expect to see at least $5.00 a gallon by November and then all bets are off for the rest of the winter. Market anaysts were predicting gas at $4.00 a gallon by July 4th and it hit $3.99 on May 12th so it looks like things are happening a little more quickly than anticipated.
I know the EKO can be run quite sucessfully without storage that you can always choose to add in the future and carries a 5 year warranty. I just heated last winter a 2,100 sq ft old farmhouse and a 800 sq ft garage, all at 70* when it was -20*, with 4 full chord using an EKO 40 without storage. I know that my usage will go down when I add storage but I also look at 12 face chord useage as pretty good. When I was using my Vermont Castings Defiant and heating only the house, I used 16 face chords @ 16".
I would suggest that the boiler room you intend be insulated to save on heatloss from the boiler. You don't have to store your wood in the same room as the boiler and saves on insulation if you don't. When you want to add storage into the equation, you need to consider the space it's gonna take up. The tanks are HUGE! So if you include the space for it in any design it is a BIG plus!
The amount of electricity that any unit uses depends mostly upon what size pumps you use. I would suggest that your supply and return be at least 1 1/4" up to 100' of run and 1 1/2" over that and you could get by with a Taco .007 that's using .71 amps. Providing there isn't too many twists and turns running up the head. Just check the flow charts.
While some companies may offer the package with storage from the start, you're still going to be paying the price for it. There are different options to consider if you're interested in keeping the price down by buying from other sources. You could pay as much for storage as you did for the boiler.
Many boilers have been in use for decades in Europe while having been introduced in the states fairly recently. Bio-Max and EKO's are both made by ORLAN in Poland. An interesting thing in Europe is that they don't seem to have the same trade laws over there that we have here and you find the exact same boiler with different labels on them. As an example, check out the Biasi WOOD3 SERIES WOOD BOILER from QHT, then check out the the EKO COAL BOILER on Zenon's site. Hmmm... looks like the same unit too me. Interesting to say the least.

 

[lawandorder]

Thanks for all the reply's. Spoke a long time to Tarm Rep and I was very surprised at the conversation in that I was almost expecting a used car sales type of pitch and I didnt get that. HE seemed real honest and gave me a name of a local installer who I met with last week who impressed me as well. The install price with boiler and storage is going to come in at the 15-16K. he recommended two sealed closed storage tanks with a solar connection?? in case we decide on solar DHW. HE said its only a few hundred dollars now versus a lot more down the road if we decide to run solar DHW. He quoted a tarm storage tank or two Buderos tanks in line?? Make sense??? PRice included 1 1/4 pex, copper in the boler room and connections to current oil burner. Install would be in boiler room attached to rear of garage. Did not include excavation for trench from house to boiler room which is no biggy since we need footers for the garage dug anyway. ANyt thoughts comments still appreciated.

 

[verne]

just for reference ,I purchased an eko 40 with all fittings , 130' 1 1/4 " pex a large expansion tank for 1000 gal propane tank storage . Total investment at this point $ 9800 including tank ( $ 650) and chimney. I built a 24' x32' pole barn to house the set up.