The Anabaptists (Amish, Mennonite, Church of the Brethren)

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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
19,988
Philadelphia
From what I gather they were never really a homogeneous group. It just took a long time for tech to advance enough to apply pressure to individual churches. One of my coworkers grew up Mennonite and has Amish extended family.

Moving the chat to a new thread, since this was pulling the inflation thread off-topic.

First disclaimer, nearly all of my neighbors and most of my daily social circle are Mennonite. I and my family attended a Mennonite church for a period of more than a year, before wandering back to good old-fashioned traditional Protestantism. Both of my kids attended Mennonite day cares and Mennonite primary schools for more than 10 years, and heck... even my house was built by and continuously owned by Mennonites, prior to me. My groceries, cars, and even household appliances all come from Mennonite owned businesses, you could say you can't swing a dead cat around here, without hitting a Mennonite.

Like most around here, I buy my furniture from the Amish, usually having it custom-made as sets of stand-alone pieces, or fitted as built-ins. I have also used Amish builders for my barn, and various other projects. But most of my knowledge of them comes more from reading about them, than everyday interaction. Likewise with CoB, they have two large churches within a 4 minute drive of my house, and one builder I've used for several projects is CoB, but I don't know them like I do the Mennonites.

That said, they all come from the same Anabaptist movement, right around the turn of the 18th century. The Mennonites came to this part of America as a large group in 1727, as a sort of less-famous reprise of the Pilgrims, and they settled in the northwest part of what was then Philadelphia county, later to become Montgomery County. A bit later another large group of Mennonites ended up in Ohio, with apparently some giving up the trek near Pittsburgh on the way, but I don't know if the Ohio group was a splinter from PA or if they came in a separate wave from Europe.

If you ever want to hear about the most fascinating story of the Anabaptists, look up the story of the hanging cages of St. Lambert's Church in Münster, and the usurpation and siege that lead to those cages. Fascinating history, for those with a strong stomach.

The Mennonites have been divided since at least the 1960's into "old school" and "new school". In fact, you will read obituaries saying things like, "born 1932 (OS), died 1993 (NS)." There are a few things wrapped up in this, mostly dress and outward displays of pride, not horses and buggies or a fear of electricity. The Mennonites drive cars, in fact they seem to have a much higher than average affinity for muscle cars, as every Hellcat or SRT owner I personally know other than myself is a Mennonite. A retired friend tells me how they'd all show up at church in their muscle cars in the 1960's, and then have drag racing after church.

The old-school Mennonite women do were head coverings (the doylees), and dresses and shoes that are plain and old-school, the men wear black suits, and they painted the chrome work on their old cars black. They wouldn't leave behind any pictures of property, as an outward showing of pride, and just have a generally meek and pious demeaner. But they live in very modern and very large houses, what most people would consider mansions, and have no fear of wealth.

More later, gotta run...
 
... back.

So the most important or interesting part: Whereas most outsiders not knowing their history will look at the lifestyle of these various Anabaptists, and consider them ultra-conservative, they were actually founded on principles of extreme liberalism or even fanaticism in their religious belief. Whereas the primary wave of Protestants following in the wake of Luther were relegated to making incremental change (improvement, in their eyes) over years and generations, the Mennonites in particular insisted all change must happen now. Their reasoning was that souls needed saving today, not tomorrow.

This put them at odds with everyone from entrenched Catholic and Anglican (CoE) leadership, to civil leaders, as they were seen not dissimilarly to the way our grandparents looked at the hippies. A serious social disruption, that was not welcomed in their home countries scattered across central and eastern Europe (Germany, Switzerland, etc.). Hence... America.

Even today, whereas most Protestant churches teach from both the Old and New Testaments, the Mennonites (and I believe Amish and CoB) only follow the New Testament. They've read and are aware of the Old, but whereas a Presbyterian, Lutheran, or German Reformed will be taught that any apparent contradiction between Old and New Testaments comes only from our own misunderstanding of the content, the Mennonites will say emphatically that the New replaces and usurps the Old.
 
We see Mennonites vacationing on the Outer Banks. Easy to spot on the beach. :)

Our kitchen table and chairs are from the Amish.

Used to go to the market in Flemington, NJ. GREAT place! Closed today for Ascension Day. How many businesses do that nowadays?


Great food at Philly's Reading Terminal Market! Yum!
 
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Great food at Philly's Reading Terminal Market! Yum!
Oh yeah, forgot about that! Many of those vendors come from the various Anabaptist sects scattered across Montgomery and Berks counties. Maybe even a few as far afield as Lancaster.
 
There was certainly another migration out of Europe in the 1800's, my family came over in 1867 I believe. My family was destined for the US but my ancestors fell in love with a girl and came to Canada to meet up with her when her family arrived in Manitoba about a year later.

My family came primarily from Poland, but had left and spent about 20 years in Crimea before coming to North America.

There's a sizable Mennonite population up here of a couple different factions. We don't have true Amish around here. But we do have quite a few Hutterite colonies.
 
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My college room mate married a Mennonite girl in Lancaster county. Nice experience that was, in their farm barn.
 
There seems to be a considerable Amish population in the Fremont Michigan area. I haven’t been out that way in about 5 years, but when my daughter lived there, I saw many horse and buggy combos on the road. And plenty of warning signs on the road too.
 
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There's a significant Amish population in Maine, but I haven't met any yet. I'm always interested in learning about the Amish and really enjoyed a series by semi-pro filmmaker Peter Santenello when he went to Amish country in Ohio and stayed with some Amish and Mennonite families. They talked about the different churches and their rules about tech, how they dress, schools, etc.
 
There seems to be a considerable Amish population in the Fremont Michigan area. I haven’t been out that way in about 5 years, but when my daughter lived there, I saw many horse and buggy combos on the road. And plenty of warning signs on the road too.
There is a substantial Amish-Mennonite community in northern Indiana's Elkhart County too.
 
There is a substantial Amish-Mennonite community in northern Indiana's Elkhart County too.
I said Ohio, but I'm wondering now if my memory is failing me. As soon as I saw your "Indiana", it rang a bell, and I think this is the group of which I was thinking in my first post.

I have several letters written by an elderly family historian of the family who bought my house in the 1770's, and added most of what's standing here today, atop an older and smaller house. I think it was from her letters that I'm remembering the migration story, so I'll have to dig them out and see. Since my focus was solely here in PA, I remember reading it, but not doing anything useful with the info.
 
I said Ohio, but I'm wondering now if my memory is failing me.
The Holmes county area (and surrounding) part of Ohio has what I understand to be the second largest population of Amish in the US, second only to Lancaster PA.
And there are tons of Mennonites around too...they both are extremely varied groups as far as their religious beliefs and lifestyles.
Something @Ashful mentioned about Bible belief...in this area the old school Amish use only the old testament, and often the church bishop is the only one the has a copy...he reads and interprets it to the church...lots of control in that...not healthy.
The Mennonites I know own and use their own copies of both the new and old testament.
 
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Ohio has a substantial Amish community too, but I think Indiana's is larger with many more recent immigrants coming in.
 
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Yeah, I'm only one county over from Ashful I think (my GF's family is scattered around Montgomery County), but not a lot of Mennonites here, ASFAIK. I do see them in the city and around.

Lots of Quakers around here, and I have a couple Quaker friends, and have been to a Quaker funeral. Lots of Quaker schools and meeting houses.

My area was settled by a large number of Welsh, and used to be called New Wales. My town has a Welsh name. I jokingly call it New North Wales, to distinguish it from NSW in Aus.

Fun fact, is that the state name Pennsylvania was first suggested by the Welsh as 'Pensylvania' which is Welsh for 'deep wood.' Someone added a second 'n' in honor of Governor Penn, and that is what stuck. But it started out Welsh.

My youngest went to a daycare in a large colonial-era building (a good use, given the low ceilings). The marker says that the building had been held under siege by the British for 60 days during the war (before they surrendered).
 
Even today, whereas most Protestant churches teach from both the Old and New Testaments, the Mennonites (and I believe Amish and CoB) only follow the New Testament. They've read and are aware of the Old, but whereas a Presbyterian, Lutheran, or German Reformed will be taught that any apparent contradiction between Old and New Testaments comes only from our own misunderstanding of the content, the Mennonites will say emphatically that the New replaces and usurps the Old.​
“The New is in the Old concealed; the Old is in the New revealed.”
- Saint Augustine​
 
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I live in Lancaster County. I currently live in Ronks right on the Amish Village tour bus route. The Amish were really out and about yesterday for ascension day.

I have some Mennonite roots and so does my wife. The house I'm buying soon is surrounded by mennonite folks riding their bikes and steel wheeled tractors. I even saw a steel wheeled lawn mower.

I love the area but boy do I get tired of passing buggies....
 
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Mennonites and Amish in Georgia and South Carolina as well. I always stop at Mennonite restaurants in rural areas. They have really good food.

They have some of the really impressive farms in central Georgia
 
The Holmes county area (and surrounding) part of Ohio has what I understand to be the second largest population of Amish in the US, second only to Lancaster PA.
That is what I thought. I think what got me tripped up is that I've only studied the Mennonite immigration of the early 1700's, as that is tied to the construction and history of my house. Begreen already noted the Indiana group might be larger today, but perhaps only more recently so.

Something @Ashful mentioned about Bible belief...in this area the old school Amish use only the old testament, and often the church bishop is the only one the has a copy...he reads and interprets it to the church...lots of control in that...not healthy.
Wow, that's interesting. Being both derived from the same Anabaptist movement, I'd not have expected Mennonites and Amish to be so nearly opposite, in this regard. I attended a Mennonite church for a year or two, and as noted my kids grew up in Mennonite schools with their required religion coursework, so I know that end of things much better than anything Amish. In fact, despite having grown up Presbyterian, on a diet of equal Old and New testaments, I appreciate and somewhat reconcile with the Mennonite perspective on this.

The Mennonites I know own and use their own copies of both the new and old testament.
Same here, but as noted, heavy emphasis on the new. When a conflict or discrepancy is perceived, the New always governs.

Lots of Quakers around here, and I have a couple Quaker friends, and have been to a Quaker funeral. Lots of Quaker schools and meeting houses.
Yes! And don't they have the prettiest meeting houses? One of my closest aunts married into an old Quaker family, who came to America in the 1690's and settled in New Hope. They raised my cousins Quaker, and I went to a Quaker sleep-away summer camp two summers. It's interesting, but very different, if you've never attended. It lacked appeal for me, I've been too acclimated to hearing a sermon, but worth checking out if you've never been.

My area was settled by a large number of Welsh, and used to be called New Wales. My town has a Welsh name. I jokingly call it New North Wales, to distinguish it from NSW in Aus.Fun fact, is that the state name Pennsylvania was first suggested by the Welsh as 'Pensylvania' which is Welsh for 'deep wood.' Someone added
Oh geez, we're practically neighbors. I'm in central Montco now, but spent most of my life in central Bucks, New Hope thru Doylestown. I used to nearly live at George's Music... the old George's.

My youngest went to a daycare in a large colonial-era building (a good use, given the low ceilings). The marker says that the building had been held under siege by the British for 60 days during the war (before they surrendered).
An uncle's house in New Hope landed in the same scenario, under seige. It was being used as a makeshift field hospital at the time, and they ended up having to inter two dead soldiers in the basement. Legends and stories exist as to whether the place is haunted for that reason, although my uncle who spent all of his 93 years living in that house will say it's all BS. Yes, it was a hospital, yes it was under siege, yes they interred dead bodies there, but only temporarily... and it's not haunted. ;lol

I love the area but boy do I get tired of passing buggies....
Only quaint to outsiders... like the seven deer in my back yard, right now.
 
We have pull-offs on public roads for slow agricultural vehicles. Would be useful in Lancaster county too (I have not seen them the cumulative 3 weeks I've been there).
 
We have pull-offs on public roads for slow agricultural vehicles. Would be useful in Lancaster county too (I have not seen them the cumulative 3 weeks I've been there).
Everyone is pretty used to the horses and buggies there, so it's just part of daily life, not a big deal. We have them around here too, I pass one maybe a few times per month, but nowhere near as common as in Lancaster.

Teens in cars can cause some problems for buggies, teens can be inconsiderate a**holes, but pull-offs won't fix that!
 
An uncle's house in New Hope landed in the same scenario, under seige. It was being used as a makeshift field hospital at the time, and they ended up having to inter two dead soldiers in the basement. Legends and stories exist as to whether the place is haunted for that reason, although my uncle who spent all of his 93 years living in that house will say it's all BS. Yes, it was a hospital, yes it was under siege, yes they interred dead bodies there, but only temporarily... and it's not haunted. ;lol

For a Massachusetts Yankee, I love this stuff. It feels like the only history I got taught in school up there was the Revolutionary war, like every single year ;lol. And yet, we just had a few landmarks, like Bunker Hill and Paul Revere's ride to cling to.

I now understand that Boston was a backwater largely ignored by the British... they went to the center of colonial population and commerce (Philadelphia) to kick our azz, invaded and occupied a legit city, chased Washington's Army out to the burbs to freeze to death and there were mass casualties. And there is a still a mass grave and eternal flame for the US fallen in Washington Square a few blocks from Independence Hall.

Unlike a poem and a few smaller skirmishes up in MA.
 
Even here, much of what we learn about Rev. war history focuses on Bunker Hill, Lexington, and Concord. Paul Revere, yadda, yadda... then we skip ahead to Trenton, and then boom... Valley Forge! ;lol My kids seem to be learning a lot more about the 1st Continental Congresses, than I remember learning in school, but maybe I just wasn't a great student. I do remember learning more about the 2nd CC, which is where more of the relevant action began.

Most of my learning of and interest in rev. war history came from stories handed down through my family, not what I learned in school. I have several family connections to that war, mostly from owning or donating the use of key properties used as either headquarters, hospitals, camps, or jails, but also some stories of offering key information or even serving as guide in the Christmas day battle of Trenton. Washington, Lord Stirling, and most of the troops were camped on lands either then or later owned by my family, for the ten days preceding that attack, in fact it was planned in the dining room of the house in which my grandmother later grew up. It was common, at least during that phase of the war, for the various general officers to set up office in the home of any supporter with house of sufficient size and accessibility to serve the purpose.

Getting back to the Mennonites, they were heavily persecuted and abused for refusing to support the patriot effort. It was common to have their homes and farms burglarized or "commandeered", or for them to be displaced out of their homes against their will, to be used as quarters for lower officers on both sides. The general officers were famous enough that there seem to have always been supporters clamoring to house them, but not so much with lower ranking officers. Records indicate that construction on the house in which I live in now was underway in 1775, but that the family who had it built did not live here until 1779. I've always wondered if the war being hot in this area 1776-77 had something to do with that delay, as the owner was pastor of a large Mennonite church in the area, and so would have been very visible in the community.
 
It is important to understand, just saying “Amish,” “Mennonite,” or “Brethren” is relatively meaningless. There are broad stripes within each of these groups.

The Amish vary from conservative (e.g. no bicycles, steel tired buggies, corn-shuck beds, etc.), to moderate (electric bicycles, pneumatic tires, solar panels, etc.), to liberal (automobiles, modern farm machinery, computers, etc.). The latter group is known as Beachy Amish Mennonite – so possibly not “Amish,” per se. Besides doctrine, common elements include men’s beards and broadfall pants; and women’s solid-colored dresses and headcoverings. During the week, the women wear cape dresses only in some communities.

One interesting rule with the Amish in Aylmer, Ontario is no internal combustion engines. That includes chainsaws(!)

Mennonites span an even wider range. There are Old Order Mennonites who travel by horse and buggy and live similarly to some of the Amish groups. Other Old Order groups drive black cars (as has been mentioned). At the other end of the spectrum are folks having no distinctive attire or manner of living. They have cars, televisions, and computers. In between are all manner of conservative, moderate, and liberal groups. Some of their doctrines even differ, somewhat, from one another.

Among the Old Order Mennonites, beards and broadfall pants are rare on the men. Print (with fine prints) cape dresses and headcoverings are the norm with the women.

The Brethren are situated like the Mennonites. There is a very conservative Brethren group in Indiana that makes some of the Old Order Amish appear liberal. The Church of the Brethren is the most liberal group among the Brethren. There is quite a spectrum within the CoB, too. Until recently (possibly still, today), there are a number of CoB churches in Lancaster County, PA (probably elsewhere, too) in which the women still cover their heads. Other groups are extraordinarily liberal. Again, there is the full spectrum between the horse-and-buggy groups and the liberal CoB. Some of those intermediate groups are considered Old Order, some are not.

You will find a mixture among the Old Order Brethren men. Beards are very common, but there are some men who are clean shaven. Broadfall pants and suspenders are not worn universally. Women wear cape dresses in either solid colors or prints; and headcoverings.

A “hybrid” group is the Old Order River Brethren. Their doctrines are mostly Mennonite, but their practices are Brethren. Once again, there is a more conservative horse-and-buggy group. The other two groups use automobiles, modern farm machinery, electricity, and most other modern conveniences.

I have not heard the terms “Old School” and “New School” used to refer to Mennonites until now. Old Order implies following the old order in manner of worship. For instance, Sunday schools are nonexistent in Old Order churches. There are New Order Amish churches. They typically have broken from the Old Order Amish for spiritual (rather than practical) reasons. However, as it turns out, the New Orders tend to be somewhat more liberal in practice than many of the Old Order groups.

I have never run across an Amish church that only uses the Old Testament. Very commonly in their own stores, I see “Testaments” (their abbreviation for New Testament Bibles) in German, English, and bilingual English/German. Full Bibles (Old and New Testaments) are also sold in these stores in the same languages.

Regarding the Amish, Mennonites, and Brethren deferring to the New Testament (over the Old), yes, I concur.

I am a member of one of the Old Order Brethren groups. We have cars, electricity, telephones, computers (of course), and chainsaws (thankfully).

A common thread among all the more conservative (not necessarily Old Order) groups is the avoidance of electronic entertainment. Televisions, stereos, electronic games, etc. are not found in these homes.

Some of the most important things among (at least) the more conservative groups of Anabaptists are community, accountability, and fellowship. Many members do not carry insurance of any kind. When help is needed – be it a building project, financial assistance, caring for the elderly, farm work for an injured or ill member, etc., the members willingly step in. These people enjoy being in one another’s company.

For those who are interested in learning more about the conservative groups, any of Stephen Scott’s books are sound. His Old Order and Conservative Mennonite Groups explains all the various such groups. There are many books written about the Amish. I am sure some of them contain inaccuracies (or, at least, gross generalizations). Information about the Brethren is more limited. Steve Scott lamented there was too little interest in the Brethren for a book to be successful.
 
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Excellent post, @River. One thing I remember in all of my past reading about the Amish inclination to avoid labor-saving technology and machinery, is the basis of this principle being reliance on your neighbor. My take-away was that they saw value in having to rely on your neighbor for tasks that might be achieved alone, with the aid of modern machinery.
 
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The house I'm buying soon is surrounded by mennonite folks riding their bikes and steel wheeled tractors. I even saw a steel wheeled lawn mower.
'splain that one, please. Why no rubber tires? Do the bikes have steel wheels too?
 
'splain that one, please. Why no rubber tires? Do the bikes have steel wheels too?
Air in tires is "worldly"...some sects even break it down to you can have rubber tread on steel wheels...some are steel only. Never seen steel wheeled bikes, but they might exist!