Timberwolf 2200 or True North T19 Wood Stove?

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Chuck the Canuck

Feeling the Heat
Hi. I've been a very quiet observer in the firewood and stove forums for quite a while now. I've loved this group of people from the minute I first stumbled upon it over a year ago. Me? I live outside of Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada. I've been burning wood in my shop for about 5 years (bought a Newmac 100-WB wood furnace last year), and slowly but steadily have become addicted to all things firewood, to the point that I processed and sold almost 50 cord of hard wood last year (1/2 in cords and half in bundles). I've pretty much cut out the cord business during 2013 because I'm doing a booming business selling bundles year round. And did I mention that I've learned a heck of a lot from these forums? That's an understatement!

So now to the point. The house, just under 1000 square feet bungalow (2 bedrooms, kitchen and large central living area upstairs, and completely open, unfinished basement, ICF foundation with cement floor). There has never been wood burning set up for the house. I switched from oil to a air to air heat pump a couple of years ago, and while I don't hate it (especially in the summer), it still doesn't give me the nice warmth that I need (especially cool floors and such), and it cost a pretty penny about 3 months of the winter when the auxiliary heating element has to kick in quite regularly. So I want to put a wood stove down in the basement to run during the winter and keep me and the wife nice and toasty. The wood stove wood be located almost square in the middle of the basement, right underneath the old chimney which was used for the oil furnace (which is obviously getting a brand new wood burning chimney piped up through the old chimney zone). This in turn is about 6 feet or so away from the main open stairwell which leads up into the central zone of the house (the middle of the living room).

I have 2 choices to consider: number 1 is the Timberwolf 2200 wood stove with ICC Excel chimney, and number 2 is the True North TN19 wood stove with Selkirk SuperPro chimney, both straight up through existing chases & attic and straight out through the metal roof. Both stoves have 1.9 cubic foot capacity and seems at first glance to be almost identical. The Timberwolf quote is about $100.00 more than the True North. Any thoughts, opinions, feedback would be most kindly appreciated.

Cheers,
Keith
 
With that size house if you have a very open stair well centrally located and that size firebox I would assume you could get good heating upstairs as long as you can get good airflow. Can you put a large ceiling fan directly over the staircase? If so you will certainly get goo movement of hot air up when its directing cold air to the basement.

I can't comment about the stove types, but I have a 1100 sq foot rancher (only the top floor counts) with a basement. So it is actually 2200 sq feet I am trying to heat. If you are in the same situation, a 1.9 fire box is a little on the small side especially with the stove in the basement and if you can't get good airflow up that staircase.

I have a spiral staircase about 4 feet away from the stove (metal) The diameter is about 4.5 feet and I have a large ceiling fan mounted directly above the staircase. I get a superb column of hot air to the second floor, However I have a 3.0 cubic foot firebox (encore) rated to heat ~1800 sq feet. And I would say it is the perfect stove for my rancher (had i bought a defiant we would probably be blown out of house and home). Little concerned that you are actually trying to heat 2000sq feet with a smaller 1.9cubic foot fire box.

If you just want supplemental heat that size is fine but it may not be all you were expecting.
 
With that size house if you have a very open stair well centrally located and that size firebox I would assume you could get good heating upstairs as long as you can get good airflow. Can you put a large ceiling fan directly over the staircase? If so you will certainly get goo movement of hot air up when its directing cold air to the basement.

I can't comment about the stove types, but I have a 1100 sq foot rancher (only the top floor counts) with a basement. So it is actually 2200 sq feet I am trying to heat. If you are in the same situation, a 1.9 fire box is a little on the small side especially with the stove in the basement and if you can't get good airflow up that staircase.

I have a spiral staircase about 4 feet away from the stove (metal) The diameter is about 4.5 feet and I have a large ceiling fan mounted directly above the staircase. I get a superb column of hot air to the second floor, However I have a 3.0 cubic foot firebox (encore) rated to heat ~1800 sq feet. And I would say it is the perfect stove for my rancher (had i bought a defiant we would probably be blown out of house and home). Little concerned that you are actually trying to heat 2000sq feet with a smaller 1.9cubic foot fire box.

If you just want supplemental heat that size is fine but it may not be all you were expecting.
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Well, I do have a large (reversible) ceiling fan located in the middle of the living room on the main floor, so that would certainly help to pull more warm air upstairs (good point), and I'm pretty sure that I've got good air flow through the house; I also have the recirculating fan on heat pump set to run 24/7 that constantly circulates air through the forced air ductwork..... So, are you saying that if I'm looking at say 1000 square feet in the basement and 1000 square feet upstairs, I should really be thinking that I'm heating 2000 square feet? That does make sense.... Thanks...
 
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Well, I do have a large (reversible) ceiling fan located in the middle of the living room on the main floor, so that would certainly help to pull more warm air upstairs (good point), and I'm pretty sure that I've got good air flow through the house; I also have the recirculating fan on heat pump set to run 24/7 that constantly circulates air through the forced air ductwork..... So, are you saying that if I'm looking at say 1000 square feet in the basement and 1000 square feet upstairs, I should really be thinking that I'm heating 2000 square feet? That does make sense.... Thanks...

Yep, that would be the right way of looking at it. Is your basement finished? If not you will need something large like an Englander NC30 or a Drolet Myriad to name two cost-effective options.
 
Either stove is going to do the job. The setup is not perfect with the basement install, but it should work. If you are thinking of burning 24/7 then upgrading to the PE Super 27 could be a bit more efficient and extend the burn times. I'm assuming that with an ICF foundation that it's pretty well insulated. Is that correct? Is the upstairs also well insulated? If so, that will work to your advantage with this install.
 
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Others here are much better qualified than I to comment on stove selection, but I'm just wondering why you're looking at different chimney brands? You might save some money by just going with the Selkirk - ICC Excel is top of the line and you tend to pay for it. Lots of threads on here if you do a search to see different opinions on whether top of the line is what you want.

My local stove shop carried Security Chimneys that was a similar price to the Selkirk from Home Hardware (and the stove shop was very helpful in making sure I had all of the right pieces), so that's what we put in (DIY) but I'm glad I had help from the Hearth - the SC install manual was pretty light on the details and confusing in places. From what I've seen online, Selkirk is a lot more helpful for DIY if you're thinking of going that route.
 
Hi Chuck Don't think the class a chimneys are as important (both are good brands), but I know the True North is a nice quality PE product. The TW is a good value, but I'd rather buy the TN. In your climate though, don't think either may be enough heat. Consider the larger Super 27 or even the summit if you can. Good luck with it.
 
Hi all. Thanks for the input thus far. When we bought the house (built around 1962) we jacked up the house and put in the ICF foundation, which really gives it a super insulation value. We also had all new windows and doors installed over the past few years and had extra insulation blown into the attic. The house is pretty much sealed now without pulling down all the inside walls (and that aint gonna happen). We live on a pretty well travelled highway and we can't hear anything outside at all (except for the odd trucker coming down the hill with the jake brake on).

As far as the chimney choice goes, I had 2 different quotes from 2 different companies is all: the Timberwolf was quoted with the ICC and the True North was quoted with the Selkirk. Both are competitively priced, only $100 difference between them, so the money issue is NOT an issue. I just want the best stove. But I guess they both seem pretty much the same as well. Both 1.90 cubic feet box, both have secondary combustion, so how to choose????
 
Hi Chuck, In my view, TW is a lower level of Napoleon, while TN is a division of PE. Also, in my view (and this is no slam on Napoleon, they are a good value stove), PE is a better stove than Napoleon. Opinions will vary too. Good luck.
 
. . .I just want the best stove. . .
. . .If you are thinking of burning 24/7 then upgrading to the PE Super 27 could be a bit more efficient and extend the burn times. . .
Good advice right there. Apparently PE really got it right with the Super. Not to say that the TN does not have good burn times, but it's fairly new, and there aren't many reports on the TN. The TN has secondary burn tubes under a ceramic baffle, like most non-cat stoves, instead of PE's more rugged stainless baffle. I would at least ask the dealer for a quote on a Super. . .T5 if you want to get snazzy.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/pe-true-north.60306/

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/pacific.htm
 
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Hey Chuck!

As a fellow Frederictonian, I welcome you to the forum! I grew up there but have been away for 9 years. I was actually there for the entire first week of September with my family. I have friends out the Keswick Ridge way.

Are you looking at getting those stoves at CT ot Kent's? Is that why you are looking at that them? What is your budget range?

You mentioned you wanted to heat the basement right? And the main floor? And the stove would be in the basement?? I have a similar setup. I have a stove in my finished basement, 1300 sq feet. I have R24 on the walls (spray foam + roxul). It takes about 2-3 hours for the heat to start going upstairs. I don't have a heat pump. That fan will be a life saver to take the warm up and circulate it around. I learned the hard way that a wood stove is a space heater. It is not that easy to move air around an entire house. For that, you need something with ductwork and a blower. Your setup should work fairly well.

If I were in your shoes, wouldn't get anything less than 2.5-3.0 cubic feet. Why? Because 1.9 will become tiresome in Dec-Jan-Feb when your heat pump can't handle the job alone, you will be reloading every 4-6 hours. The TW 2300 may suit your needs a bit better (however I don't know about the cost difference). For $1100 (regular price), you can get a Timber Ridge (made by Englander Stove works - it is the same as the NC30) at Canadian Tire. And they come on sale every second week about $100 off. It has a 3.5 cubic foot stove. Also, another cost effective option is the Drolet Myriad (as mentioned above). And it comes with a blower. You can make a small fire in a big stove but you can't make a big fire in a small stove.

Good luck!! Big decisions..

And as others mentioned, that selkirk chimney seems to be top of the line - in price. You could perhaps saves a few $ if you get another brand name chimney (I have a Security Chimney like Cynnergy).

Andrew.
 
Hi Swedishchef. No, I haven't been to Kent or Canadian Tire; the quotes were from the only 2 reputable stove shops in town (Sunpoke Energy and Classic Stoves and Fireplaces). The stoves identified (True North and Timberwolf 2200) are classified as "medium" firebox size, and if that was the only cost I had to worry about I would certainly upgrade to the next level. But I have to have a new chimney run up from the basement (through existing chases from the old oil furnace chimney, and that drives the cost up to the point that right now it's either the True North, the Timberwolf 2200, or nothing. I'm thinking that it's not so bad though; I'll pick one or the other for now and probably upgrade the stove in a few years after I make my first million from selling firewood bundles.... :)

Thanks for all the info and advice people!
 
Chuck: I certainly know where those are, I grew up out on the Hanwell road. They are certainly reputable.

I think you could easily upgrade a stove for $300 or so and save the cost on the chimney, but that is my opinion.

One thing is true: not many people sell firewood in Freddy. What's your price? How big is a bundle?

GOod luck

Andrew
 
Hi again. Well, the bottom line is that I didn't realize it was going to cost so much to get an install in the basement. It took me a long time to get my wife to agree to put a wood stove in the basement, and she really only agreed because she loves me and knows that it would make me happy; nonetheless, the whole thing almost fell through when WE saw the price tag. So, to be perfectly honest, I'm pretty happy just going with the options presented for now. I'll know by the end of the winter if I really need to upgrade the stove, and then we can move on from there....

As for the bundles. I figure they be about 1.7 cu.ft. of dry hard wood (mostly rock maple, red maple, beech and yellow birch) per bundle, $5.00 a bundle (the wood I've been cutting and stacking over the summer will probably start selling in April, May, June......). People are loving the bundles, and I find it hard to keep up at times. It's like a second full time job..... But, whatever floats yer boat, right? :)

Cheers
 
. . .So, are you saying that if I'm looking at say 1000 square feet in the basement and 1000 square feet upstairs, I should really be thinking that I'm heating 2000 square feet? That does make sense. . .
Yep, that would be the right way of looking at it. Is your basement finished? If not you will need something large like an Englander NC30 or a Drolet Myriad to name two cost-effective options.
. . .If I were in your shoes, wouldn't get anything less than 2.5-3.0 cubic feet. Why? Because 1.9 will become tiresome in Dec-Jan-Feb when your heat pump can't handle the job alone, you will be reloading every 4-6 hours. . .
+2
Swedishchef said:
. . .The TW 2300 may suit your needs a bit better (however I don't know about the cost difference). For $1100 (regular price), you can get a Timber Ridge (made by Englander Stove works - it is the same as the NC30) at Canadian Tire. And they come on sale every second week about $100 off. It is a 3.5 cubic foot stove. Also, another cost effective option is the Drolet Myriad (as mentioned above). And it comes with a blower. You can make a small fire in a big stove but you can't make a big fire in a small stove. . .
Chuck, I understand budget, but I don't see how that prohibits you from getting a bigger stove for the same $. AFAIK, the TN19 lists for ~ $1k. As Swedishchef has pointed out, the NC30 is available in Canada for that price. $1k(or less) is also the going rate for the Drolet mentioned.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200307391_200307391

The Drolet might be even cheaper up there, since it's made in Canada.

I'm sorry you're not getting any owner responses to your specific TW2200 vs. TN19 question, but seems like your real question is: "To which of these 2 dealers should I write a big check for a package deal on a stove + chimney?"

I'm going to suggest that you put down the checkbook and step away from the dealer, at least for a short time, and truly consider some of the other options being suggested, instead of dismissing them because they haven't been offered to you in a nice package from a dealer. When the going gets tough, the budget-limited get creative.:)

Swedishchef said:
. . .as others mentioned, that Selkirk chimney seems to be top of the line - in price. You could perhaps saves a few $ if you get another brand. . .
+1
I understand that there only 2 dealers in town, and these are the 2 brands of chimney that they offer. Have you looked for an independent chimney sweep to do the job?
. . .Installation by an independant chimney sweep/installer here in CT was $500. . .The other cost will be for your chimney liner which I got online at Chimney depot and I think it was about $400 for a 25 foot liner, and all of the caps etc that you'll need for installation.

FYI, my experience when looking for people to install them is that understandably, they all want to sell you and mark up all of the liners/components by saying "we can't guarantee if we don't sell you the parts ourselves" and many will turn you down. It's sometimes tricky to find someone this time of year to do it (at least here) since the local hearth stores won't give you the names either because they subcontract the same install people and don't want you to get installed unless you buy from them as well. I'm sure if you call around enough you'll find someone in your area who is hungry and will do a great job or you can do it yourself. . .
Considered DIY? Probably ~ half of us on hearth.com have installed our own chimney/liner. It's usually not that tough a job, and you can save big $, not just because you don't pay for an installer's labor, but also because you get out of the dealer/installer's package pricing.

How 'bout starting a thread on your chimney situation and letting hearth.com analyze that for you?
 
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Last I checked the TN19 could be found for about $800, but I haven't checked since last season.
 
The Drolet is currently $920 from NorthernTool.
They might not have NT in Canada, but I would think that SBI products could be found for similar $ or cheaper up there.

The point is not ± $100, but that if you are really on a tight budget, there are alternatives to going to a dealer and writing a big check. I don't know if OP is giving these alternatives due consideration. Sure, it's not as easy as letting a dealer handle everything, but processing firewood isn't easy either. How much firewood do you have to sell to pay a dealer ~ $3k for a chimney?
 
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You could buy the products somewhere else (for perhaps cheaper) and get a WETT technician to install.
Check out this site, http://wett.hind-smith.com/searchresults.cfm there are tons of guys servicing the Fredericton area. My search came up with 17 guys of which one is on your side of the river.

Eugene Cavanaugh
Technician, Chimney Sweep, SITE Basic Inspector
Tel:
506-474-0580
The Chimney Sweep721 Union St
Fredericton NB E3A 3N9
 
I guess I never gave much thought to putting the chimney in myself. My brother in law is an ex-home builder, and spurred on by the advice I've recieved so far I've decided to put everything on hold until I talk with him next week. I just assumed that having it installed was what I had to do... duhhh. If he can help put the chimney in (or rather, if he can install it with a bit of help from me), then I can shop around and pick a larger stove more suited to my space requirements. In the long run that sounds like it will be the most satisfying route to take....

Thanks again...
 
He is he an ex-home builder, you can get it done in a day. Piece of cake (class A chimney outside...).

I am as useless as a 3 legged horse in a sprint when it comes to installing chimneys and I helped a buddy of mine install his (caviat: I got someone to install mine, I didn't even have a stove when I got it put in...).

Let us know how you make out! With the extra savings, you can easily get a bigger/different stove that would suit your needs much better.

Andrew
 
Kent has the Drolet Austral, currently $999.97. Stainless steel baffle 3.1 cu.ft. fire box (advertised)

Canadian Tire has the TimberRidge (Englander) 50-TNC30T currently $1099.99 3.5 cu.ft fire box. (advertised)

I bought the Austral because of the more robust baffle system.

I'm sure you will be happy with either choice.
 
Drolet also has some support on this website and offer amazing customer service (SBI). IF you ever have problems, he can help troubleshoot or put you in touch with the right people. His forum handle is Fyrebug. Great guy.
 
You can definitely do the install yourself. I built my hearth, picked my stove and supervised the installation of my chimney (by the OH and our roofer) all from the advice here. It is all up to code and safe as can be. An ex-home builder bro-in-law is a great resource. Just make sure to read all of the instructions that come with whatever chimney and stove that you choose (all of them have install manuals online), and if in doubt, search the forums here or ask away!

You can also send in pics of your install and ask the forum members to double-check, but that can get expensive if you make a mistake :p. Better to ask questions first.

Some municipalities do have bylaws that state that you have to have a certified WETT person do the install though, so you might want to check on that.
 
Call your homeowners insurance. I have geico underwritten by liberty mutual. The required a licensed and insured contractor/builder install my chimney liner otherwise I would be kicked off the policy... And they wanted to ensure the stove was purchased from a authorized wood stove dealer.

Not like I really wanted to install my own chimney anyway...but just be careful everything is kosher with your insurance.
 
Call your homeowners insurance. I have geico underwritten by liberty mutual. The required a licensed and insured contractor/builder install my chimney liner otherwise I would be kicked off the policy... And they wanted to ensure the stove was purchased from a authorized wood stove dealer.

Not like I really wanted to install my own chimney anyway...but just be careful everything is kosher with your insurance.

The OP, being in Canada, will have to have the installation inspected by a WETT certified inspector which should cover those bases.
 
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