I bought a house with this stove in it. It's all clean and ready to go, but I have NO idea how to use it. It's just three girls living in this house (me and my two little daughters) and we're scared to death to light a fire in it. I downloaded the manual that someone posted in one of these threads and geesh, I can't understand updraft, downdraft, horizontal draft... There are also these two long metal things with a coil at the end of each which seem to be permanently affixed to the sides of the stove. What do they do? I can't find anywhere in the manual that explains them. If anyone knows about this old stove I would greatly appreciate the operation help. I'm far FAR from being a girl scout.
VC Defiant Parlor Furnace 1975 HELP PLEASE
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I would suggest having a chimney sweep or other pro inspect the chimney setup and the basics.
But here are the stove variables.
One of the coils on the side operates the bypass damper which changes it from updraft to horizontal draft. This may be hard to operate - put some strength into it - and you will see a flap inside the stove near the top open up - which allows the smoke from the fire to have a direct route up. That is for starting the unit, using it in temperate weather or with the doors open and screen (as open fireplace). So consider that as the stove being in gear or out of gear.
There is a small coil in the upper rear which operates a flap lower on the stove back. That is the primary air control. Opening it allows more air in - closing it allows less air in.
Other than those two, there may be a small secondary air flap with a small casting over it. This doesn't do much.
Page enclosed from manual shows all these systems. The bypass damper is two positions only - open or closed. The thermostat on the rear is variable.
If you search around you will find out that many people cannot use their Defiant in downdraft mode since you need a few things to do so:
1. You better need a LOT of heat!
2. You need a good chimney draft - very strong
3. Good fuel
4. A very good bed of embers.
One forum member had his Defiant for 20 years and never used it in the downdraft (horizontal) mode since it would smoke when he did so.
But here are the stove variables.
One of the coils on the side operates the bypass damper which changes it from updraft to horizontal draft. This may be hard to operate - put some strength into it - and you will see a flap inside the stove near the top open up - which allows the smoke from the fire to have a direct route up. That is for starting the unit, using it in temperate weather or with the doors open and screen (as open fireplace). So consider that as the stove being in gear or out of gear.
There is a small coil in the upper rear which operates a flap lower on the stove back. That is the primary air control. Opening it allows more air in - closing it allows less air in.
Other than those two, there may be a small secondary air flap with a small casting over it. This doesn't do much.
Page enclosed from manual shows all these systems. The bypass damper is two positions only - open or closed. The thermostat on the rear is variable.
If you search around you will find out that many people cannot use their Defiant in downdraft mode since you need a few things to do so:
1. You better need a LOT of heat!
2. You need a good chimney draft - very strong
3. Good fuel
4. A very good bed of embers.
One forum member had his Defiant for 20 years and never used it in the downdraft (horizontal) mode since it would smoke when he did so.
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Hi sugr64,
There's no reason to be indimidated by this stove. It is, in my view, one of the best stoves ever made. Mine has been in constant winter use for more than 30 years. Defiants are easy to use and regulate, if probably not as efficient as a more modern EPA stove.
So, the thingees with the spring-like parts attached to the sides are mitten driers. This was an option that could be ordered but did not come as a standard part of the stove. Mittens were simply slipped over the upper ends. The driers can be removed if you wish by loosening the screws on the parts which hold the rods to the stove.
There is one thing to check which is not emphasized as much as it should be in the manual. Perhaps the previous owner can tell you if it was done when the stove was last cleaned. As you stand facing the stove with the front doors open, the part of the stove with the cast in medallion and holes in a horizontal line at the bottom is called the fireback. There is a space between the fireback and the back of the stove itself. Very fine ash tends to build up in this area which can block the secondary air tubes and, if really deep, lead to excess heat and cracking of the fireback. The previous owner should be able to tell you if this area was cleaned along with the rest of the stove. In any case, it needs to be done every year.
Facing the stove with the stove pipe removed and the damper open, look straight down. You will see a cast iron removable plate that is held in place by tabs on the fireback and stove back. This plate is intended to be removable so you have access to the in between area for ash removal. Taking it in and out is difficult, so I use a vacuum (with a filter bag designed for fine dust) with a length of vinyl tubing duct taped to the hose to reach down next to the plate on the left hand side where there is a wide enough space for your hand. If the stove receives only light use this cleaning can be every other year, but should be checked every year.
Starting fires is very easy. There are many ways to do it. Start with the damper and the adjustable thermostat open. I place two small split pieces of wood parallel to each other with a space between. Crumpled up newspaper with kindling on top goes in the space. Light the newspaper with the side door open. Once the kindling catches, add more wood and close the door. When you feel heat begin to radiate from the stove, you can close the damper. You'll now be in the secondary burn mode automatically. Damper open = updraft. Damper closed = secondary burn. That's all there is to it. When you add wood using the side door, you must open the damper to open the door, so you will maintain a good draft. Starting fires with the front doors open is more difficult and tends to be smoky. If you want the fireplace effect, start as above until the fire is going well, then open the damper and front doors.
Finally, before any fires, make sure the chimney is clean and in good shape. House inspection may have covered this. If not, inspection by a chimneysweep or your fire department is very cheap insurance. One of the virtues of the Defiant is its simplicity of operation. There's no better or easier stove to operate. You will learn to love it as I have.
There's no reason to be indimidated by this stove. It is, in my view, one of the best stoves ever made. Mine has been in constant winter use for more than 30 years. Defiants are easy to use and regulate, if probably not as efficient as a more modern EPA stove.
So, the thingees with the spring-like parts attached to the sides are mitten driers. This was an option that could be ordered but did not come as a standard part of the stove. Mittens were simply slipped over the upper ends. The driers can be removed if you wish by loosening the screws on the parts which hold the rods to the stove.
There is one thing to check which is not emphasized as much as it should be in the manual. Perhaps the previous owner can tell you if it was done when the stove was last cleaned. As you stand facing the stove with the front doors open, the part of the stove with the cast in medallion and holes in a horizontal line at the bottom is called the fireback. There is a space between the fireback and the back of the stove itself. Very fine ash tends to build up in this area which can block the secondary air tubes and, if really deep, lead to excess heat and cracking of the fireback. The previous owner should be able to tell you if this area was cleaned along with the rest of the stove. In any case, it needs to be done every year.
Facing the stove with the stove pipe removed and the damper open, look straight down. You will see a cast iron removable plate that is held in place by tabs on the fireback and stove back. This plate is intended to be removable so you have access to the in between area for ash removal. Taking it in and out is difficult, so I use a vacuum (with a filter bag designed for fine dust) with a length of vinyl tubing duct taped to the hose to reach down next to the plate on the left hand side where there is a wide enough space for your hand. If the stove receives only light use this cleaning can be every other year, but should be checked every year.
Starting fires is very easy. There are many ways to do it. Start with the damper and the adjustable thermostat open. I place two small split pieces of wood parallel to each other with a space between. Crumpled up newspaper with kindling on top goes in the space. Light the newspaper with the side door open. Once the kindling catches, add more wood and close the door. When you feel heat begin to radiate from the stove, you can close the damper. You'll now be in the secondary burn mode automatically. Damper open = updraft. Damper closed = secondary burn. That's all there is to it. When you add wood using the side door, you must open the damper to open the door, so you will maintain a good draft. Starting fires with the front doors open is more difficult and tends to be smoky. If you want the fireplace effect, start as above until the fire is going well, then open the damper and front doors.
Finally, before any fires, make sure the chimney is clean and in good shape. House inspection may have covered this. If not, inspection by a chimneysweep or your fire department is very cheap insurance. One of the virtues of the Defiant is its simplicity of operation. There's no better or easier stove to operate. You will learn to love it as I have.
Wow, thanks to both of you! I have printed it all out and will find all of it's parts tomorrow. I had the chimney cleaned, but the rest of the stove is up to me, I didn't realize there was anything left to clean. I did acquire a chimney brush, but I can almost gaurantee that it will never be used. I guess I can figure this out. I was going to sell it, but I'll try it out now. I'm embarassed about the mitten warmers, we got a good laugh out of that. I had three people here today trying to figure out what exactly those things did as they didn't seem to affect anything on the stove. Everyone laughed. Accessories! Why didn't I think of that!
If my girls see that I can handle this, it will be a valuable option for my ever so expensive oil heat. Right now they just see "house fire highly possible" and I want to convince them otherwise.
I can't thank you enough! Look for more questions as I light this thing!
Oh wait...I do have a question...all of the warnings in the manual are based on over heating. Do I just buy a thermometer to lay on top like in the pictures? If so, what type would I get? Do I monitor the thermometer constantly when the stove is lit?
If my girls see that I can handle this, it will be a valuable option for my ever so expensive oil heat. Right now they just see "house fire highly possible" and I want to convince them otherwise.
I can't thank you enough! Look for more questions as I light this thing!
Oh wait...I do have a question...all of the warnings in the manual are based on over heating. Do I just buy a thermometer to lay on top like in the pictures? If so, what type would I get? Do I monitor the thermometer constantly when the stove is lit?
Do I just buy a thermometer to lay on top like in the pictures? If so, what type would I get? Do I monitor the thermometer constantly when the stove is lit?[/quote]
Yes, just lays on top.
I got mine at HD.
I monitor mine when the stove is lit, play with the air control, and otherwise find excuses to play with my stove. You will too.
Fire it up!
After chimney sweep says all is ok, of course.
Yes, just lays on top.
I got mine at HD.
I monitor mine when the stove is lit, play with the air control, and otherwise find excuses to play with my stove. You will too.
Fire it up!
After chimney sweep says all is ok, of course.
It might be worth considering to sell it. I'm saying that if it is over sized or if you don't have a great supply of wood. If any of these are true, then you can probably get decent $$ for it, and then buy a smaller (and updated) stove which will probably be friendlier to you.
The Defiant is for major heating - meaning you also need major piles of wood to keep it fueled. So that would be a consideration - selling it to someone with 6 cords stacked up and an old farmhouse, and getting something newer to replace it.
The Defiant is for major heating - meaning you also need major piles of wood to keep it fueled. So that would be a consideration - selling it to someone with 6 cords stacked up and an old farmhouse, and getting something newer to replace it.
Well, we've had thousands of Defiants burning for years in our community so I can't say it is completely out of the question for you to make it work for you. However, the CHANCES of having a problem (Chimney fire, house fire, smoke damage, etc.) is MUCH higher with that stove than if you had a more modern technology alternative. If you have never burned a wood stove before your risk is even higher. You can be successful if you are cautious, careful, and determined. But, if you have the resources, you should carefully consider removing the Defiant and installing a modern clean-burning stove.
The advice of a few local chimney professionals should be considered. The safety of the chimney system will be the most critical.
Sean
The advice of a few local chimney professionals should be considered. The safety of the chimney system will be the most critical.
Sean
Craig and Sean have vastly wider experience than I do, so selling the Defiant and replacing it with a more modern stove may well be the best way to go before next winter. I can't, however, resist adding a little perspective. We used about 7.5 cords of wood last year to heat a 1600 square foot 1870 house with less than ideal amounts of insulation in Maine. That was about average. Total oil consumption was 92 gallons. I've had the same chimneysweep for 25 years and he gets about 4 gallons of loose flaky creosote at the annual cleaning. Each time he tells me he gets at least as much and sometimes a lot more from more modern stoves. Defiants do produce a lot of heat and if they are oversized for the space, the temptation is to run them in a smoldering, shut down mode. This will create creosote. With hot fires, dry wood and an internal chimney, they are fine.
A fire extinguisher is a wise investment for any woodburner. So is a five gallon pail of baking soda - best means of quickly putting out a fire in the stove without destroying it or sending hot coals into the living space. I really don't see any way the Defiant is inherently any more likely to be a fire hazard than any other wood stove. In fact, good friends and very experienced burners replaced their original Defiant with a new Everburn model winter before last. It was the new one that scared them to death. They sold it and wish they still had the original.
A fire extinguisher is a wise investment for any woodburner. So is a five gallon pail of baking soda - best means of quickly putting out a fire in the stove without destroying it or sending hot coals into the living space. I really don't see any way the Defiant is inherently any more likely to be a fire hazard than any other wood stove. In fact, good friends and very experienced burners replaced their original Defiant with a new Everburn model winter before last. It was the new one that scared them to death. They sold it and wish they still had the original.
4 gallons?! You should probably be cleaning more often. And if your sweep is telling the truth those owners/users of the new high-tech stoves are not paying attention. I routinely get not more than one CUP of dust out on a yearly cleaning from a stove like and Avalon Olympic, or Rainer, or an Encore or Acclaim, or something similar. And these folks use the stove 24/7 all heating season. What do they know that these other owners don't?
That's the thing. The Defiant, while a fine stove in it's time, does not give you the opportunity for a truly clean burn no matter what you do. The modern high-tech stove gives a user the opportunity for extremely clean burning. The key word is "opportunity". Even with a new modern stove a lot of users never figure out how to get that clean burn because they either have not been taught the correct technique or have no interest in learning how to do it.
I believe it is part of a sweeps job to try to educate the owner/user about how to properly use their stove and eliminate that dirty burn. Of course, some folks would rather not be instructed so they can only do so much. But you can only go so far with an old stove like the Defiant. To have a realistic shot at a truly clean burn you must upgrade.
Sean
That's the thing. The Defiant, while a fine stove in it's time, does not give you the opportunity for a truly clean burn no matter what you do. The modern high-tech stove gives a user the opportunity for extremely clean burning. The key word is "opportunity". Even with a new modern stove a lot of users never figure out how to get that clean burn because they either have not been taught the correct technique or have no interest in learning how to do it.
I believe it is part of a sweeps job to try to educate the owner/user about how to properly use their stove and eliminate that dirty burn. Of course, some folks would rather not be instructed so they can only do so much. But you can only go so far with an old stove like the Defiant. To have a realistic shot at a truly clean burn you must upgrade.
Sean
Sean: I don't disagree with anything you've written. A cup of creosote is pretty impressive and my point about my sweep's comments was precisely that the way in which the stove is operated tends to be more important than the technology. My reluctance to part with the Defiant has several components. Advancing years and thus increasing stubborness. Loyalty for 30+ years of excellent operation. Fear that a newer stove will not work as well. Dislike of glass/ceramic doors. Lack of a side loading option. Needlessly complicated and not very functional ash removal systems in most newer stoves I've looked at. Experiences of several friends who were less than overwhelmingly happy with more than one brand of newer EPA stove.
In any case, I do think sugr64 can, with sufficient care, use her Defiant without going through an enormous quantity of wood or incurring unreasonable risk.
In any case, I do think sugr64 can, with sufficient care, use her Defiant without going through an enormous quantity of wood or incurring unreasonable risk.
I have a relative that is equally stubborn with his old Vigilant. Goes through a prodigious amount of wood which they can barely afford. The by-pass no longer works, but he doesn't seem to care. He also drives 70's vintage cars that belch and smoke like his stoves, but it's been working for over 30 years. There does come a time for retirement of the best of the old beasts.
A cup of creosote is not an exaggeration. There have been years where I barely clean the chimney. Personally, I don't understand the dislike of door ceramic, viewing the fire is one of the best parts of wood burning, but each to their own.
The Jotul F600 or PE Summit would come close to the Defiant for performance, yet easily out do it with a cleaner more efficient burn, and use less wood. Both of these stoves are simpler to operate with no by-pass. And they are built to last another 30 years. I concur with Sean, especially for a newbie that wants to keep it as easy as possible. The great fireview will help her learn what the fire is doing and regulate it better. Good advice.
A cup of creosote is not an exaggeration. There have been years where I barely clean the chimney. Personally, I don't understand the dislike of door ceramic, viewing the fire is one of the best parts of wood burning, but each to their own.
The Jotul F600 or PE Summit would come close to the Defiant for performance, yet easily out do it with a cleaner more efficient burn, and use less wood. Both of these stoves are simpler to operate with no by-pass. And they are built to last another 30 years. I concur with Sean, especially for a newbie that wants to keep it as easy as possible. The great fireview will help her learn what the fire is doing and regulate it better. Good advice.
BeGreen: In my more rational moments I know you and Sean are right. There are people, and I readily admit I am one, who do not deal well with change. I drove a 1968 Volvo until 1989. Then a Mazda pickup from 89 to 2004. I still have a rotary dial phone. I do like aspects of the PE stoves, but the design is awfully modern for our house. Jotul has probably produced the most consistently good stoves over time - a 602 was the first stove I ever owned. (Yes, I still have it.) Also,I really do not need a stove that will last another 30 years as I certainly won't, but I do thank you for your thoughts.
Fraxinus, we're kindred spirits. I had old Volvos for years. My last was a restored 66 Volvo wagon (with overdrive) that I kept until I got a new Honda Accord in 1981. And I still have my 602, hopefully to go in the greenhouse this year.
Forgot to mention the Morso 3610 which is an admirable yet simple cast iron stove. I do hear you on the look of steel, we also prefer a classic look in our old house and stuck with cast until PE came out with the Alderlea line. The T6 is starting to spoil me. We'll see how it does in the next season, but I think it will be a winner. It's simple, nice looking, well-behaved and really stout, plus a fine heater.
Forgot to mention the Morso 3610 which is an admirable yet simple cast iron stove. I do hear you on the look of steel, we also prefer a classic look in our old house and stuck with cast until PE came out with the Alderlea line. The T6 is starting to spoil me. We'll see how it does in the next season, but I think it will be a winner. It's simple, nice looking, well-behaved and really stout, plus a fine heater.
BeGreen: I have written down your three stove suggestions and I am thinking about the concept of retirement for even the noblest of beasts. I just finished stacking six cords of wood yesterday and the idea of getting the same amount of heat from less wood has a definite allure - a cord certainly has increased in weight over the years. For the record, the Defiant has been maintained in very good shape with all systems operational (not entirely true of the Volvo - or me - in the twilight years) and of the four gallons of creosote removed, three-quarters is already at the bottom of the chimney, not scraped out. Never any of the dangerous glassy stuff, either. Thanks again.
PS: The Defiant made its trip from Randolph, VT to Maine in the back of the '68 Volvo.
PS: The Defiant made its trip from Randolph, VT to Maine in the back of the '68 Volvo.
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