VC Montpellier questions

[glennm]

Hello Everyone
I am new to this forum and have some questions. I have been burning wood for over 35 years. I have had a few different stoves, all standard baffled wood stoves. For the last 20 years I have been using an insert in my great room and it has worked very well, noisy and kind of inefficient, but plenty of heat.
Last week we replaced it with a Montpellier insert and I have found the EPA stoves to be a whole new learning experience.

I have a few things i am hoping you can help me with:

1: I seem to need to crack the door at start-up, there is not a lot of draft with the lever all the way to the left. Is this normal?

2: The air channels in the front seem to very easily get full of ash, if there was much air coming in why does the airflow not keep the channels clear?

3: I have a lot of coals build up, this may be a matter of letting it burn down with some softwood, but I feel like I may be spending a fair bit of time keeping the stove from filling up with coals. My other insert could burn for a week or more without thinking about cleaning it out

4: I have to be very careful opening the doors during a burn or I get plenty of smoke into the room

That should be enough for now, thanks in advance for your help!

 

[shawneyboy]

First off welcome to the Forum !!

Hello Everyone
I am new to this forum and have some questions. I have been burning wood for over 35 years. I have had a few different stoves, all standard baffled wood stoves. For the last 20 years I have been using an insert in my great room and it has worked very well, noisy and kind of inefficient, but plenty of heat.
Last week we replaced it with a Montpellier insert and I have found the EPA stoves to be a whole new learning experience.

I have a few things i am hop in you can help me with:

1: I seem to need to crack the door at start-up, there is not a lot of draft with the lever all the way to the left. Is this normal?

Not all that unusuall but it may indicate a draft issue, how tall and what constructon is the flue? Is it lined and insulated?

2: The air channels in the front seem to very easily get full of ash, if there was much air coming in why does the airflow not keep the channels clear?

This again may indicate poor airflow, but it could be nothing, see above more details may be needed to answer.

3: I have a lot of coals build up, this may be a matter of letting it burn down with some softwood, but I feel like I may be spending a fair bit of time keeping the stove from filling up with coals. My other insert could burn for a week or more without thinking about cleaning it out

Usually depends on wood, moisture content, how you burn, (do you throw in a split or 2 or do you run in full cycles).

4: I have to be very careful opening the doors during a burn or I get plenty of smoke into the room

This again may be poor draft...... see question 1...more info needed

That should be enough for now, thanks in advance for your help!

The EPA inserts are different animals, they burn different and you need to re-learn the insert. If you can give some more details of the installation and more specificly the flue (the engin of the insert) the people here will be more than happy to give you some suggestions.

Shawn

 

[glennm]

Thanks Shawn
The insert is in a masonry fireplace with a stainless liner. It is insulated, sealed at the cap and the flue is about 12 ft high from the top of the insert. The chimney is on an outside wall. This is the same installation as the previous stove
Hope this helps

 

[shawneyboy]

Thanks Shawn
The insert is in a masonry fireplace with a stainless liner. It is insulated, sealed at the cap and the flue is about 12 ft high from the top of the insert. The chimney is on an outside wall. This is the same installation as the previous stove
Hope this helps

How large is liner? if it is 6 inches and 12 feet long that is the minimum requirement per page 3 of manual. I do not have this insert but.... minimum may not be enough for your house, setup, etc. How tight is your house? I am sure others will chime in soon enough with a more "intimate" relationship with this insert, but I am trying to get the groundwoork done.

Also, for the coaling issue, how well seasoned is your wood? Did you buy it, if so when ? Do you know species? If you harvested it yourself, when was it cut to stove length and split ?

 

[glennm]

Hi Shawn
Yes, 6" is the flue size. I live in the country, harvest my own wood. A variety of hard and softwood, all seasoned under a roof for a minimum of 2 years. I have been using smaller splits to begin with, looks like this stove really needs east west placement, the firebox is shallow. The house was built in 77and not really very tight. There is plenty of draft with the door cracked a bit.

 

[shawneyboy]

Hi Shawn
Yes, 6" is the flue size. I live in the country, harvest my own wood. A variety of hard and softwood, all seasoned under a roof for a minimum of 2 years. I have been using smaller splits to begin with, looks like this stove really needs east west placement, the firebox is shallow. The house was built in 77and not really very tight. There is plenty of draft with the door cracked a bit.

There is the caveot, with the door cracked a bit. You should not have to crack the door to get plenty of draft the entire time. On initial reload, cold start, etc, it may be acceptable, but you should not have to have it cracked the entire burn. I am begining to think part of the issue may be you are at minimum requirements. EPA stoves/ inserts need more draft than non EPA stoves/inserts for the secondary burn, which gives you alot of your heat, and keeps it burning clean.

I do believe odds are your flue temps are lower now, with this insert, than they were in the past, cooler flue means less draft, which means not best burn. If you run the insert with a good size load and close the doors after initialy flaming up, does the flame go out? Does it smolder? Do you get secondary burn from the tubes in the top ?

Perhaps not a perfect example but is this what it looks like ???

 

[glennm]

Yup. I just took a photo but looks like I cant post it yet.

 

[summit]

that insert actually works pretty well. One thing to remember about using it, however: you gotta get it hot first. Using alot of small splits and kindling, build a nice log cabin stack of tinder and small firewood. Light it off, then leave the door cracked and the air control wide open. Let it Rip, and when you think you are getting it too hot, let it rip for a minute more. Once everything is consumed by flame, and the smaller bits are starting to crumble down, close the door and let it run full open unitll the little cabin collapses. Then, rake it all around, load up some more, leave air control open till it all starts to burn, then shut the air control back to achieve desired burn time. Once you've established a fire like that, and a super hot firebox, the thing will go indefinetly untill you let the fire go out.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I have a few things i am hop in you can help me with:

1: I seem to need to crack the door at start-up, there is not a lot of draft with the lever all the way to the left. Is this normal?

2: The air channels in the front seem to very easily get full of ash, if there was much air coming in why does the airflow not keep the channels clear?

3: I have a lot of coals build up, this may be a matter of letting it burn down with some softwood, but I feel like I may be spending a fair bit of time keeping the stove from filling up with coals. My other insert could burn for a week or more without thinking about cleaning it out

4: I have to be very careful opening the doors during a burn or I get plenty of smoke into the room

1: At start-up yes this is normal for a cold stove. There are ways to eliminate this "need" but you can decide which is easier. You can load it up with lots of small dry kindling and paper to get a large flame and strong draft going. Then add bigger splits later. Or you can baby-sit it with the door cracked open.

2: I get the same thing w/ my Monte. I don't like this feature but I've learned to clean it out regularly. The ash builds up because there are other ways for air to enter into the box. So if those bottom ones plug up there is no "air jet" to blow them clean because the air just comes through another route. Actually if you ARE burning this hot enough to blow the ash clear you probably are running the insert full-open too much which indicates other problems.

3: I get a fair bit of coals but they need not be the problem people think they are. When I wake up in the morning the insert is cool enough to touch with gloves (I use this oportunity to clean the glass and lower air ducts). I take a poker iron and rake the charcoal around a bit this settles the ash, and brings a few live coals to the surface. I place some splits on top of the coal bed. Then tuck some newspaper on one side. This newspaper catches, and the draft starts up. With a good draft blowing on those coals the live ones quickly grow until the hole coal bed is glowing and then the splits catch. By the time the splits are forming new coals, the old ones are nearly spent. I repeat this routine for several days without actually having to shovel anything out (we burn from morning 'til bed time).

4: Normal. Especially during start-up. Once stove is cranking this should not be a problem. EPA stoves gain their efficiency precisely because they are engineered to only generate enough draft to supply combustions thereby reducing the amount of wasted heat going out the flue. You weren't thinking you were getting a free lunch were you?

 

[glennm]

Nope, I wasn't expecting a free lunch. I did think that a fully open damper would pass more air than it does. Once I get a fire established I get a great long burn. I don't have the output of the older stove but wood consumption is much less with a longer burn time. I can't get my house much above 70 with this stove but I can hold the temp for a longer period of time.
Guess it's just going to take time to adjust
Thanks again for the help

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

How big is your house?

My Monte struggles when the mercury gets down below 15*. But I'm asking a pretty tall order - 2000 sq feet, exposed to wind, old poorly insulated house, fireplace is on outside wall.

 

[glennm]

Sounds like we have a similar layout. I have 2200 sq ft. Very open floor plan. The house was built in the 70's, it's a bungalow and the monyy is on an outside wall. I am finding it works quite well, just not a ton of heat like the previous stove. Getting used to the drafts has been a challenge.

 

[rover47]

When I first start my montpellier I leave the door unlatched until things get going well. I also see some ash in the out lets. I think that is caused when I reload. Also keep an eye one the screens for the blower motors. We have a dog that sheds some and you would be surprised how much junk gets sucked in there.
When it gets good and hot I usually run the stove with the handle about straight out or about 1/2 the travel in the adjustment. This stove really wants well seasoned wood. Otherwise the glass gets dirty real fast. This is the second season for us with the stove. Still love that big door.
You may hear some people complain the blower is to noisy. Mine is a little noisy when it first comes on but seems to get quieter the longer the burn. I have to shim mine a little when we first got the insert.
Now that I think about it when the installer lit the first fire he actually had the door cracked to get it going.