My trusty Vermont Castings Vigilant 1977 has developed a problem (which isn't bad after 16 years of mostly trouble-free service). The damper will no longer stay in the closed position - when you turn the handle from horizontal to vertical to close the damper, it springs back to horizontal under the weight of the damper door itself. Whatever 'catch' there was before to keep the damper closed is no longer working. I've examined the thing as closely as I can, hoovered it all clean, checked for obstructions, but can't see what the problem is. At the moment the fault is erratic but it seems to be getting worse. I have improvised a stick to wedge the handle in the closed position as a temporary work-around, but would be interested if anyone can shed any light or offer suggestions.
VC Vigilant 1977 damper problem
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Fsappo
Minister of Fire
There really isnt a catch there. Its done by weight. The bulges in that damper keep it balanced so it stays shut. What I have seen in the past that causes VC dampers to flop open (on Defiants and Vigilants)
1. the damper when closed has a lip at the top which rests against a lip on the inner top of the stove. The balance point is so close, that 1/8" to 1/4" of creosote on either of those lips will keep the damper from getting 100% to that balance point.
2. the older defiants and vigilants were famous for being great heaters but also for having firebacks that would warp, crack, burn thru, etc. If that fireback warps even a little, it can also throw that balance point off. This means the problem will slowly get worse.
Back in the day, as either thing started to happen, folks would shim up the front legs of the stove with washers to try to prolong the inevitable.
Let me know if you try this trick and it works.
1. the damper when closed has a lip at the top which rests against a lip on the inner top of the stove. The balance point is so close, that 1/8" to 1/4" of creosote on either of those lips will keep the damper from getting 100% to that balance point.
2. the older defiants and vigilants were famous for being great heaters but also for having firebacks that would warp, crack, burn thru, etc. If that fireback warps even a little, it can also throw that balance point off. This means the problem will slowly get worse.
Back in the day, as either thing started to happen, folks would shim up the front legs of the stove with washers to try to prolong the inevitable.
Let me know if you try this trick and it works.
"There really isnt a catch there. Its done by weight. The bulges in that damper keep it balanced so it stays shut. What I have seen in the past that causes VC dampers to flop open (on Defiants and Vigilants)
1. the damper when closed has a lip at the top which rests against a lip on the inner top of the stove. The balance point is so close, that 1/8†to 1/4†of creosote on either of those lips will keep the damper from getting 100% to that balance point.
2. the older defiants and vigilants were famous for being great heaters but also for having firebacks that would warp, crack, burn thru, etc. If that fireback warps even a little, it can also throw that balance point off. This means the problem will slowly get worse.
Back in the day, as either thing started to happen, folks would shim up the front legs of the stove with washers to try to prolong the inevitable."
Thanks, I understand the damper mechanism better now. Had a look with torch and mirror and I can see the bulges you refer to. There appears not to be any creosote deposit stopping the damper from contacting the lip at the top of the stove, but when I push it into contact and let go, the damper flops back about 1/8" and the damper handle comes to rest at about 5.30pm rather than 6pm on the clockface, if you're with me. And from that position it randomly either stays poised on the balance point or flops right back to open. My stick solution, although a bit fiddly, seems to work quite well, because it forces the damper against the lip, so I get a better slow burn.
If you were going to shim up any legs, would it not be the back ones you would raise, to force the damper forward ?
1. the damper when closed has a lip at the top which rests against a lip on the inner top of the stove. The balance point is so close, that 1/8†to 1/4†of creosote on either of those lips will keep the damper from getting 100% to that balance point.
2. the older defiants and vigilants were famous for being great heaters but also for having firebacks that would warp, crack, burn thru, etc. If that fireback warps even a little, it can also throw that balance point off. This means the problem will slowly get worse.
Back in the day, as either thing started to happen, folks would shim up the front legs of the stove with washers to try to prolong the inevitable."
Thanks, I understand the damper mechanism better now. Had a look with torch and mirror and I can see the bulges you refer to. There appears not to be any creosote deposit stopping the damper from contacting the lip at the top of the stove, but when I push it into contact and let go, the damper flops back about 1/8" and the damper handle comes to rest at about 5.30pm rather than 6pm on the clockface, if you're with me. And from that position it randomly either stays poised on the balance point or flops right back to open. My stick solution, although a bit fiddly, seems to work quite well, because it forces the damper against the lip, so I get a better slow burn.
If you were going to shim up any legs, would it not be the back ones you would raise, to force the damper forward ?
Fsappo
Minister of Fire
The proper fix for this is fireback replacement. The thing is, if it's a 2 piece back, then you're good . If a 1 piece, then you have to consider other options. Look at the fireback where ti says 1977. Now go all the way to the top right corner of that plate just below the damper itself. If yer seein' the head of a bolt there, 7/16 actually, then congradulations. If no bolt, then it's an expensive and maybe impractical repair. Lemme know what you find, and we can go to the next step if you like. Oh and Merry Christmas.
"The proper fix for this is fireback replacement. The thing is, if it’s a 2 piece back, then you’re good . If a 1 piece, then you have to consider other options. Look at the fireback where ti says 1977. Now go all the way to the top right corner of that plate just below the damper itself. If yer seein’ the head of a bolt there, 7/16 actually, then congradulations. If no bolt, then it’s an expensive and maybe impractical repair. Lemme know what you find, and we can go to the next step if you like. Oh and Merry Christmas."
Bad news - it's a one piece back. No bolt showing. Also I found an 8/9" crack running from the bottom left hand corner of the fireback roughly horizontally across the lower part of the back above the '1977' plaque. Thanks for your input, and Marry Christmas too - if a little late.
Bad news - it's a one piece back. No bolt showing. Also I found an 8/9" crack running from the bottom left hand corner of the fireback roughly horizontally across the lower part of the back above the '1977' plaque. Thanks for your input, and Marry Christmas too - if a little late.
So do you guys even have V.C. dealers on that side of the pond? Well With luck they're on most every corner. No matter though just wondering...
Well the fix is taking the stove apart and rebuilding it using the Vigilant IC fireback kit. It is in fact the ONLY Vig kit they make currently. Anyway, it includes all the stuff you need, even cement and tie rods. It would cost around $600.00 here in the States, and if you're handy you'd manage. New stoves are nice too...
Well the fix is taking the stove apart and rebuilding it using the Vigilant IC fireback kit. It is in fact the ONLY Vig kit they make currently. Anyway, it includes all the stuff you need, even cement and tie rods. It would cost around $600.00 here in the States, and if you're handy you'd manage. New stoves are nice too...
Don't know how confident I would be about rebuilding the stove, or how keen I am to hose hundreds of pounds/dollars at it, given its age...plus we may not be in this house much longer anyway. BUT I did just find an Exploded Parts Diagram (http://www.discountstove.com/0039.html) which shows a screw just to the right of the '1977' plate, which I completely missed on my first inspection of the fireback, looking for the bolt mentioned by defiant3. What does this screw do ? can you unscrew it and remove the fireback ? is it likely to be totally seized after all these years ?
Frightfully sorry, old boy, the screw you see simply holds in place"cover plate B" which helps distribute secondary air to gasses leaving the firebox when damper is closed. I would wager my life on it being quite siezed up , but that is of course the least of my worries ,or yours at the moment. Jotul makes a lovely stove these days! How far is Norway from you?
Ah well. Funny you should mention Jotul, my dad installed Jotul stoves in our house in the sixties when woodburners were pretty rare in the UK. He loved to get a really good fire going, and sometimes I would end up sitting there with no shirt on it was so hot...
Inde3ed, all over Scandanavia too there are droves of people sitting nearly naked by their Jotuls absolutely swealtering, after which they promptly dash outside to roll in the snow! Is this also a tradition among Brits? Ido learn a great deal at this site, it's just priceless.
THe Oslo is a suitable replacement for a Vigilant, and those I know who have them love them. There is a world of good products however, and finding a good retail dealer is often the best way to begin. Hope you're staying warm.
THe Oslo is a suitable replacement for a Vigilant, and those I know who have them love them. There is a world of good products however, and finding a good retail dealer is often the best way to begin. Hope you're staying warm.
I agree with you about the site, it is both entertaining and informative, which is a rare combination online. I am sure we Brits would do more rolling in the snow if we ever had any - until the last 2 years snow in my part of the world has been limited to the occasional dusting maybe once or twice each winter. Which is why this winter's prolonged snow and sub-zero temperatures have come as such a shock.
Just had a look at the Oslo, it certainly is a good-looking stove - but I doubt I will be buying a new one until we have a new house, and I am intending that the new house will be as green as possible, having spent 16 years in big old stone building dating back to the 17th century, and with matching insulation properties. I like to say that we heat the place by setting fire to £100 notes...right now though I am extremely warm, basking in the heat of our other VC stove, a Defiant Encore, which I installed about 15 years ago and which has always worked like a dream.
In terms of comparing stoves, do you know if it is possible to get objective efficiency comparison data for a range of woodburners ?
Just had a look at the Oslo, it certainly is a good-looking stove - but I doubt I will be buying a new one until we have a new house, and I am intending that the new house will be as green as possible, having spent 16 years in big old stone building dating back to the 17th century, and with matching insulation properties. I like to say that we heat the place by setting fire to £100 notes...right now though I am extremely warm, basking in the heat of our other VC stove, a Defiant Encore, which I installed about 15 years ago and which has always worked like a dream.
In terms of comparing stoves, do you know if it is possible to get objective efficiency comparison data for a range of woodburners ?
After a paolonged period with an old stove in an even older house, one can redily apprehend your desire for maximum efficiancy in all aspets of life, especially wood burning. How could one not applaudthis desire? Yet, looking at the "big picture" one is immediately confronted by the fact that ALL wood burning stoves these days are materially more efficiant than the old Vig., and oone's decision might better be driven by other factors. I know I'm about to stir up the hornet's nest here, but no matter HOW efficient they are I would likely avoid a new Vermont Castings product. They are exceedingly complex, and have all kinds of expensive parts inside which seem to like to wear themselves out.
Whatever you do , consider a much larger stove, as it would seem that global climate change has a period of glaciation in store for the U.K. Indeed, how many feet of snow have you in Somerset? Is it still possible to exit your house from the first floor, or are you reduced to climbing out 2nd story windows?
Whatever you do , consider a much larger stove, as it would seem that global climate change has a period of glaciation in store for the U.K. Indeed, how many feet of snow have you in Somerset? Is it still possible to exit your house from the first floor, or are you reduced to climbing out 2nd story windows?
remkel
Minister of Fire
Have the same crack in my backplate going from the reburn chamber west through the stove.
The stove was my Pepere's and has a lot of sentimental value, but I know that I am going to have to begin researching my options. A new Defiant would be nice.....
The stove was my Pepere's and has a lot of sentimental value, but I know that I am going to have to begin researching my options. A new Defiant would be nice.....
Remkel, before you do anything rash, consider that if your beloved Vigilant has served you well and is a good fit for your home,it'll be WAY less to restore it than to buy ANY new stove . New V.C. products you also may find to be expensive to maintain if you bourn like 3 cords of wood per season or more. Stuff justv wears out in there; expensive stuff. Go back through this thread and figure if yours is a one piece fireback (I assume it is).If you want to contact a stove guy who can do the work in your area,lemme know.
I am not overly impressed with the design of VC stoves myself. I think I chose VC back in '95 because we already had one in the house, and because it was recommended to me by the retailer. One thing that seems unsound about them is that the controls on different stoves work entirely differently - damper levers dotted about all over the place, 'up' is 'closed' on one stove and 'open' on another etc. When explaining how to use them to people I have to give an entirely different speech about each stove, which is exasperating. You expect a certain amount of design consistency from an established manufacturer. I would be interested to hear what it is about Jotul stoves that makes you recommend them - simplicity for one, I suppose.
We have only had about 5 to 6" of snow here, which is probably small beer to you guys with your recent blizzards (you are in New Hampshire, yes ? haven't been there since summer '73). And it has all gone these last two days as temperatures have at last emerged above zero.
We have only had about 5 to 6" of snow here, which is probably small beer to you guys with your recent blizzards (you are in New Hampshire, yes ? haven't been there since summer '73). And it has all gone these last two days as temperatures have at last emerged above zero.
remkel
Minister of Fire
defiant3 said:
Chunk,
It is a one piece back. I had a new back priced out (they only make the two piece back now) at a little over 500. I most likely will replace with the two piece but I might look into some people that have old stove parts to see if I might be able to scrape up a one piece back.
Stove is great for our house. Keeps down at 70 and up at 64. Rest of the stove is in great shape. Just tore it down last year and resealed everything. Only issue is creosote with this stove, but just bought a sooteater to try and make the regular cleanings a bit easier.
Grew up in a house heated with a Defiant, Pepere had this Vigilant (both stoves bought within a few months of each other and both still running). Definitely some attachment there.
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