Very Confused.. Opinions Please Regarding Wood Stove Heat Output

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Drew1024

New Member
Jan 29, 2008
90
Central NJ
I have an Englander 13 series that heats up to 1800 sq ft. I bought this for my cabin which is 480 sq ft on the first floor and the same for the loft area. Plenty of stove one would think. My install is as follows: small vertical pipe from the stove and then out through the wall with my stainless chimney running along the side of the cabin which is a 14 ft run. The cap is slightly ( a few inches) above the peak. The cabin is in a very wooded area with mostly tall pines. Anyway, I got there this morning and the inside of the cabin was about 15 degrees. By the time I left at 4 PM, I was only able to get it to 40 degrees. The loft is fully insulated, the side walls in the loft and on the first floor are insulated. However, the floor is not. The cabin underneath is wide open with basically just the plywood floor and knotty pine on the inside. You would think the upstairs loft would have all the heat but it remains freezing up there. I don't know if it is a draft issue or the fact that my floor isn't insulated. I was told this stove would blow me out of the cabin. Do I need to add another chimney pipe to get to the two ft above the peak? Do I need to insulate the floor? Outside air kit maybe?
 
All of the walls and furniture in that place soak up a hell of a lot of heat before the air temp in the rooms have a chance of getting warm. And at the same time the joint is losing heat to the outside. If this place got to fifteen degrees I would expect the stove that normally keeps it at seventy five plus to take a day to heat it back up burning flat out. And it is twice the size of that stove.
 
Most stoves have a 15ft. minimum height chimney. This is at the size that comes out of the stove, IE: 6 or 8 inches no reductions. Then if you have a horizontal run you may want to use 45* connector's instead of 90. The last part of the formula is to be 2ft. above any part of the roof line, minimum! It does sound like you may be trying to heat the material of your cabin and the rooms. Insulation could be a huge help if the wind is just whistling under the floor...
 
I'm thinking insulation for the cabin.....I'm thinkin............open as many passage ways as you can to the loft.......I'm thinkin, fans......

-Soupy1957
 
Im with Bart on this one... It takes a LOT more heat to raise the temperature of that space 50 or 60 degrees than it does to just maintain temperature.

If you were able to get that stove up to normal working temperature (say 600F or whatever is typical for you) it was working right. If yo are gong to be often coming up to that cabin cold on a regular basis and need to e able to warm it up to room temp in only a few hours than you may have to oversize your stove to do it, the downside to that is it may overheat in the shoulder season. Or maybe you want 2 stoves or a stove plus some other space heater, run both to warm things up than just run one to maintain.
 
15 degrees is pretty darn cold. It may take me a day before the bedrooms in my house rise from 65 to 68.
 
I just returned from my cabin. It was about 10 degrees inside when I arrived. I turned on the propane gas-log stove, then did a small burn in the cast-iron Shelburne, then fired it up and turned off the propane. The cabin is about 900 sq. ft., including the loft. I could still see my breath inside after 4-5 hours. It took 24 hours before it got toasty inside, but after that the Shelburne had no problem keeping it warm.

I think you have two issues: your chimney isn't meeting the 10-2-3 requirement, and the really cold thermal mass of your cabin is going to require time to heat up. My cabin has no insulation in the walls (just 4 inch thick pine walls), but does have 2-inch thick foam panels under the raised, pier-and-beam floor. Yours is probably better insulated than mine overall.

My flue/chimney is straight up from the stove, single wall inside, double wall outside, a total of 18 feet. I've never had a problem with the draft, even when it was 45-50 degrees outside.
 
Thanks guys. Love this website. Would it make sense to put a three ft section of chimney to get up over the peak as well as add an outside air kit or is hid overkill?
 
+1 with BB. I have a cast iron 'parlor stove' in my outside shed/shop. It is insulated, but leaky, with a cement slab floor. It takes HOURS of a real hot stove to get the small area (perhaps 300 sqft) warm - my thought was exactly BB's - takes a long time to heat up the floor, tools, atv, walls, etc., etc., etc. As others stated, if your stove was running nice and hot, I can't see any problem with the stove - it must be a combination of warming the cold materials of the cabin, and losing heat to the outside as you are trying to add heat to the cabin. Any chance you can insulate that floor?? Cheers!
 
Normaly a house loses 15% of it's heat through an uninsulated floor. In your case this may be much higher. If it is possible to block of air flow under the floor and insulate great. If it is not, a few inches of spray foam will help immencely.

Definitely add a section of pipe as well. These measures will improve but not cure the situation, as others have pointed out.
 
Drew1024 said:
Thanks guys. Love this website. Would it make sense to put a three ft section of chimney to get up over the peak as well as add an outside air kit or is hid overkill?

I would add to the chimney height first and next Spring if possible insulate the heck outta the floor/subfloor. Oh and run that stove wide open with lots of small splits for maximum heat in minimum time.
 
We have been fighting the exact same problem for 20 years in our northwoods cabin in NW Wisconsin. The place is unheated for weeks at a time during the winter months, & has fair insulation with knotty pine interior as well. We find when arriving for the weekend the inside temps are close to 10 degress inside & the Fisher Insert works hard for at least 18 hours to bring the building up to 72 degrees. Sometimes it takes more like 24 hours, Once the building is warmed up, the insert will maintain it at 78 degress even at -30 outside. We also have a propane wall furnace as back up heat which never runs if the insert is cruising along with the cabin warmed up. Many times we wonder if it's worth it to come up during the weekend to tough it out..
 
"If it is possible to block of air flow under the floor and insulate great. If it is not, a few inches of spray foam will help immencely. "

If you use the spray foam, be sure to use it under the floor and not on top. It wouldn't look very good and would be difficult to walk on...heh, heh, heh.
 
Maybe a torpedo heater to really push some BTUs into the space in a hurry. You figure if a cabin is losing 20k/hr in that kind of cold your stove that has an output of 40k is going to have a hard time. Yes, I know how dangerous.....But I live on the edge!
 
Drew1024 said:
Thanks guys. Love this website. Would it make sense to put a three ft section of chimney to get up over the peak as well as add an outside air kit or is hid overkill?

It wouldn't hurt to try this if the stove top is slow to come up to temperature. But if it's at 600+ in 30 minutes, then it's not going to make a lot of difference other than making it safer.
 
I see a lot of mobile homes around here they put bales of straw around the skirting in the winter to help insulate the crawlspace. You are probably loosing a lot of heat through the floor with the wind blowing. A crawlspace that has still cool air will loose heat much slower rate than an open crawl with the wind cold blowing.
 
The problem as BB stated is trying to get the mass of the house up to temperature. Until it gets up to temperature, it is cooling the house. You have tons and tons of mass in that building. Adding more chimney sections, OAK, insulation, etc. is not going to solve this particular problem.

If your normal mode of operation is to arrive at a 15 degree house and have it comfortable in 6 hours, you are going to need a larger stove or a second stove.
 
DBoon said:
The problem as BB stated is trying to get the mass of the house up to temperature. Until it gets up to temperature, it is cooling the house. You have tons and tons of mass in that building. Adding more chimney sections, OAK, insulation, etc. is not going to solve this particular problem.

If your normal mode of operation is to arrive at a 15 degree house and have it comfortable in 6 hours, you are going to need a larger stove or a second stove.

+1.
 
Yep, I don't even want to contemplate how long it would take my stove to bring this house from 15 to 72 all by itself. If it was me, I would get a kerosene heater or torpedo to run for the first hour or so to really pump up the btu's in a hurry, then let the stove maintain the heat level and provide the weekend ambiance you go up there for..

My torpedo will bring the garage up to comfortable in about 15 minutes.. but that's just the air, if you put your palm on the table saw deck, you might get stuck to it. takes about 2-2.5 hours before the tools and bikes are starting to be comfortable to the touch.

OH, and I would add at least one section of chimney along with any support needed, that way you know for sure your draft should not be a problem.
 
Sounds like a good application for a big old steel smoke dragon. (I know, I know, blasphemy to utter around here) Without a doubt it sucks down a lot of wood, but ours has no problem heating up the camp in a couple hours and the immediate area of the stove is tolerable within 20 minutes. That said, the mattresses usually aren't warm enough to sleep on without sleeping bags unless we are there for more than a few days.
 
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