I made a wall thimble that I removed my window and used 050 alum that I had to make my chimney pipe go through but my alum gets warm to the touch and have not had the stove really going really hot yet. We did the same thing to my neighbors last year but used galvanized and his does not seem to get as warm does alum hold heat better is that why. I am thinking of switching if that is the case.
Wall thimble alum or galvanized
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I think a few pictures of this setup could be helpful in answering your question.
If you aren't sure how to get a pic or two up, this link will help. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewannounce/27_2/
pen
If you aren't sure how to get a pic or two up, this link will help. https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewannounce/27_2/
pen
Can you help us visualize this thimble better or can you post a picture of the installation? How large an opening is this through? How close is the nearest combustible surface?
Here is one picture to give you a idea I took for the insurance company. Everywere around the metal ring you see around the pipe was filled with insulation then put my other alum plate on the inside. The top 2x4 is about 8 inches from the top of the chimney pipe and the bottom 2x4 under the pipe is 8 inches then the side 2x4's are 16". This is double wall pipe.
I can't speak to whether or not this is legal, code compliant, or safe, someone else will have to be more versed than I am in homemade thimbles.
But I can say if the aluminum sheets are getting hot, the problem is probably that it has contact w/ that double wall pipe and that's where the heat transfer is coming from. Usually, there are double wall specific thimbles which are used, rather than the double wall pipe itself. Is there a short say 12 in section of double wall pipe that would fit over top of the pipe you are using through that ring giving you a greater barrier?
What did your insurance company think?
pen
But I can say if the aluminum sheets are getting hot, the problem is probably that it has contact w/ that double wall pipe and that's where the heat transfer is coming from. Usually, there are double wall specific thimbles which are used, rather than the double wall pipe itself. Is there a short say 12 in section of double wall pipe that would fit over top of the pipe you are using through that ring giving you a greater barrier?
What did your insurance company think?
pen
Mine did not ask or anything, last year my neighbors insurance company came up and looked at his and said looks great which is the same other than used galvanized and hos window is actually smaller it is only like 24" wide mine is more like 42"
Aluminum is a decent conductor. This looks somewhat safe with double-wall pipe, but with some caveats. The aluminum will get hot and the insulation is probably keeping the heat captive letting the sheet get hotter.
The double wall connector pipe is not meant to transition outdoors. What is this pipe connecting to on the other side? It must be be class A pipe there. Normally the way we see this done is with a 12-18" stove thimble leg of the class A pipe coming off of the tee. That eliminates the need for insulation or the holder ring. And it allows the transition connection from the class A thimble to the double-wall pipe to be done indoors. And when the thimble is insulated pipe, the aluminum would stay cool.
The double wall connector pipe is not meant to transition outdoors. What is this pipe connecting to on the other side? It must be be class A pipe there. Normally the way we see this done is with a 12-18" stove thimble leg of the class A pipe coming off of the tee. That eliminates the need for insulation or the holder ring. And it allows the transition connection from the class A thimble to the double-wall pipe to be done indoors. And when the thimble is insulated pipe, the aluminum would stay cool.
Okay I guess everyone in my area that has done stoves like this have done them wrong if class A means the stainless triple wall pipe. I am new to all this. My self and my neighbor both just used double wall pipe the whole distance going out our windows and then to my cleanout tee then straight up just above are peak of the roofs and that is it. I have it fastned really good and have over 6" of clearance to outside combustable like soffit and gutter. If I have to change this my best thing would be to find a wall thimble that 6" double wall fits through and cut the alum on both sides and put that in.
Let me get this correct. You and your neighbors have not used class A (it can be double or triple-wall) outdoor piping? Are folks using interior double wall pipe outdoors up the side of the house? If they are, I can't believe an insurance company would approve this installation. Did they get pictures of outdoors too?
The greatest concern here is that multiple friends and neighbors are copying this illegal installation. That needs to stop asap. It's hard to believe that no one read the instructions with this pipe. But good for you for investigating and coming to this site with questions. We have no agenda here but to help you burn safely. Ask away if you have more questions.
Selkirk: "This Chimney Connector must not be enclosed or pass through
attics, closets, floors, walls or ceilings, and must not be used in
place of an insulated chimney section."
The greatest concern here is that multiple friends and neighbors are copying this illegal installation. That needs to stop asap. It's hard to believe that no one read the instructions with this pipe. But good for you for investigating and coming to this site with questions. We have no agenda here but to help you burn safely. Ask away if you have more questions.
Selkirk: "This Chimney Connector must not be enclosed or pass through
attics, closets, floors, walls or ceilings, and must not be used in
place of an insulated chimney section."
I am not sure I know I didn't read any directions I just know that when we did the neighbors he said this was everyhting he needed and we just installed it all. So I went and got everything we used last year to put his in. I know my insurance has not asked for any pictures of anything yet atleast. I know the agent for nextdoor walked outside and looked at it and said it all looked good. Here is a link to the tee I used which figured it was for outdoor it is a cleanout and comes with the cap.
http://www.menards.com/main/plumbin...uble-wall/6-tee-with-cap/p-1323227-c-8498.htm
And here is the double wall pipe I used which it is stainless inside.
http://www.menards.com/main/plumbin...-wall/6-x-24-pipe-length/p-1323223-c-8498.htm
http://www.menards.com/main/plumbin...uble-wall/6-tee-with-cap/p-1323227-c-8498.htm
And here is the double wall pipe I used which it is stainless inside.
http://www.menards.com/main/plumbin...-wall/6-x-24-pipe-length/p-1323223-c-8498.htm
I'm sure the pipe was installed trying to honor it's specs, but it is not chimney pipe and not meant for outdoor use. Call the pipe manufacturer's tech support tomorrow about this for more info. The quote I posted is from the installation manual for this pipe. This is the case of a little knowledge being a potentially dangerous thing. But in your defense, at least this isn't single wall pipe.
I wall call them tomorrow but am really confued on why this is not safe to use outdoors. Would you even use a tee with a cleanout inside.
BeGreen said:
Yes, T's can be used inside for rear exiting stoves that end up going straight up.
Exactly as BG said. Nobody is knocking you, just want to make sure you and your family are safe for the service life of a good SS chimney (which should be your lifetime). If that stuff isn't rated for outdoor use, then it could be safe today but fail in time w/ who knows what for warning.
I'll be interested to hear what the manufacturer says. BTW, an insurance inspection doesn't mean poo other than they may pay for your house after it burns down since you checked with them.
Original owners of my home had a wood stove and chimney installed about 1980 by a professional. In 1999, they sold the house and it was inspected, everything passed. In 2006, the house was sold again, and everything passed insurance and privately paid inspectors, in 2007, same thing happened. It wasn't until I posted a picture of my wood rack on here that someone noticed what they thought was a shadow in my picture and asked me to check out the thimble I had passing through a combustible wall. I had studs 3 inches from my thimble, only a single wall pipe, clay crock, and brick on end separating the flue from the burnables when 12 inches was the minimum. Those studs and kraft insulation were so dry and and dry rotted that I'm certain the only reason they didn't catch fire was because they didn't have good access to oxygen.
Here's what I found after I ripped my wall apart because of the recommendation of a member of this site. If you look to the right and left you can actually see some of the dry rot / char. The surface as seen in this pic actually looked better than the 2x4 behind that. I could break that board over my knee it was so bad.
I'm hoping you find out how lucky you are earlier than I did! I was close, well intentioned, not an idiot, and paid for an inspection that could have burned down everything I worked for, thank god for this site.
pen
badbowtie said:
I can appreciate your confusion. That is why we are here.
Yes, many installations have an indoor cleanout tee. It makes for easy, clean sweeping in installations where the chimney is straight up through the house.
I want to keep my family safe but I am just confused I really wanted a outdoor wood stove and heat the grage and the house but know I have to feed two stoves instead because the outdoor burners are expensive. The money is just not here to do that and hopefully maybe that is a big maybe in 5 years I can afford that. I really hope I don't have to tear all this back apart and by more pipe that I am not sure how to afford this year. But I will call them for sure tomorrow.
This is the hard part of being a moderator on this site. I can really empathize with your situation. I expect what you have done is not extremely dangerous. You tried to do the right thing by checking with the insurance agent, but unfortunately, their knowledge in this area can be very limited. Checking with the fire marshal or building dept. might have been better. However, if there is a related insurance claim, be sure that they will bring in the experts and they will be looking for issues, including not following the documented instructions for the installation of the product.
Well I will be calling the manufacture this morning but I ended up going to the spare room were all the empty boxes are and does not say anything on them and 0 paper work in any box.
Well I called the manufactureand they said no to using it outdoors since it will create moisture and allot of creosote. So I am going to head tomorrow morning and get new pipe and tee I am going to only going to use my strraight piece of pipe ontop of my stove and my 90. Then I will have insulated pipe going thru my wall thimble I made and then cleanout tee and then up.
Thanks for the advice and looking out for safety.
Thanks for the advice and looking out for safety.
badbowtie said:
That's pretty bad. For the price of this pipe they could at least include some minimum documentation and a link to their website:
You will find the docs here. Look on the right hand side of the page under Installation > View Documents
http://www.selkirkcorp.com/supervent/product.aspx?id=220
Also, your same question came up recently in another thread. You may find some helpful hints there:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/81138/
And if you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
badbowtie said:
Before you start, is there any possibility of going straight up through the house and roof, so that this can be a permanent installation? That often is less expensive than installing an outside chimney.
I really don't want to go up through the roof for the reason my roof is cathedral ceiling and I really don't want to cut a permanet hole in the roof. The way I have done it I can take all the pipe back down and within a hour I could have the window back in since in the future I still would like to have a outdoor wood burner.
This is done all the time and is definitely less expensive. They make a cathedral ceiling support box for this purpose. It looks a lot better than a silver rocket on the side of the house and will liberate that window.
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