Was: Tons of questions, is now: Pellet prices in Europe

[Stovensen]

When you use the unit one "ton" in the USA, how many pounds does it consist of? I mean, is your ton the same as the metric ton that we use here in Europe?

One metric ton is 1000 kilograms

1 kilogram = 2.2046 pounds ( four decimal-approximation )

Lately i've been trying to estimate the difference in pellet prices in the USA and in Europe.
But I'm confused when it comes to unitconversion. :-S

So far it seems that pellets are much cheaper in the USA than in Europe :zip:

Thanks in advance for help

Bo

 

[Stentor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_ton

In the United States, we use "ton" to mean 2000 pounds. Pellets for home delivery are usually in plastic bags that weigh 40 pounds each. Therefore, a ton of pellets is fifty bags. (You can see from the Wikipedia article that "short ton" is an expression but I have only very rarely heard the term. I'm used to hearing only the word "ton", not "short ton".)

Canadian measurements are a mixture of American, old British measurements and standard European measurements. So automobile fuel there can be in "imperial gallons" (British) or "liters" (European metric system) or maybe "litres" (French dialect in Quebec).

When you read about pellets in this forum, just assume they are in 2000 pound units called a "ton".

 

[Lousyweather]

I would guess they might be, Bo, as some of our suppliers do ship "over the pond" so to speak. What do you people in the EU pay for pellets, and how widespread are they? Are pellets viewed, even at their higher prices in the EU, as the "cheaper alternative", given the other sources of energy available there? Its nice to have input from an area of the world which is head and shoulders ahead of America in biomass heating. Thanks!

 

[imacman]

If I've done my math correctly, if the price of a "US" ton of pellets was, for example, $250, then each bag of 40 lbs. would cost $5.00. A metric ton is equal to 2205 US pounds, or roughly 55 of our 40lb. bags.

55 x $5.00 = $275/metric ton.

What do you pay for a metric ton there?

 

[Stovensen]

It was a bit of a shock to realize the skyhigh price I'm paying for my pellets.

imacman's example of $ 5.00 each bag ( 40 lbs. ) in the United States is about half of what I'm paying hh:

For a bag of 20 kilograms ( 44 lbs. ) I pay $11.1. That's exactly $10 for a 40 lbs. bag.

As I live in a rather dense populated part of a major city, I don't have storage opportunity for two or more tons of pellets, which is where the discount offers start.
I only have room for max. five bags, so no discount for me.

I've done a little research on pricing...
With discount ( minimum 2 tons ) the very best premium quality pellets can be found at about 2000 Danish Kroner for a metric ton.
That's $8.16 each bag of 40 lbs. Still a very high price.

Yes, heating with pellets certainly has become popular in Europe with skyrocketing prices as a consequence. :roll:

Pellet stoves are also much more expensive here than in the US.
The cheapest I've seen recently is a very basic and ugly stove of unknown origin... 10000,- DK Kroner. That's $1850

The pellet stove of my dreams, however... the one I would buy if my Whitfield should break down and was impossible to repair, is a Thelin "Gnome". It looks cool, both fans are driven by the same armature, it does the 12 V DC thing and it's not overstuffed with a fragile electronics.
Here in Denmark a "Gnome" costs 20000,- DK Kroner = $3700. Now, that's expensive isn't it?

How much would a brand new Thelin "Gnome" cost in the United States?

Bo

 

[Tom Pencil]

It was a bit of a shock to realize the skyhigh price I'm paying for my pellets.

imacman's example of $ 5.00 each bag ( 40 lbs. ) in the United States is about half of what I'm paying hh:

For a bag of 20 kilograms ( 44 lbs. ) I pay $11.1. That's exactly $10 for a 40 lbs. bag.

As I live in a rather dense populated part of a major city, I don't have storage opportunity for two or more tons of pellets, which is where the discount offers start.
I only have room for max. five bags, so no discount for me.

I've done a little research on pricing...
With discount ( minimum 2 tons ) the very best premium quality pellets can be found at about 2000 Danish Kroner for a metric ton.
That's $8.16 each bag of 40 lbs. Still a very high price.

Yes, heating with pellets certainly has become popular in Europe with skyrocketing prices as a consequence. :roll:

Pellet stoves are also much more expensive here than in the US.
The cheapest I've seen recently is a very basic and ugly stove made somewhere in Italy... 10000,- DK Kroner. That's $1850

The pellet stove of my dreams, however... the one I would buy if my Whitfield should break down and was impossible to repair, is a Thelin "Gnome". It looks cool, both fans are driven by the same armature, it does the 12 V DC thing and it's not overstuffed with a fragile electronics.
Here in Denmark a "Gnome" costs 20000,- DK Kroner = $3700. Now, that's expensive isn't it?

How much would a brand new Thelin "Gnome" cost in the United States?

Bo

Paying with American dollars or the Euro?

Right now... one US Dollar = .72648 Euros.

So the $8.16 Euros is the same as $5.93 / 40 lb. bag.

 

[drewmo]

HS Tarm MB-Solo


Stovensen, a neighbor of mine here in the Haute Savoie department of France just had 2 metric tons delivered at 199 euros/ton. I'd guess pellets cost about a third more in Europe than they do in the States. I burn wood, and we're paying close to U$300 per cord. Again, about a third more expensive in comparison to Stateside.

Paying with American dollars or the Euro?

Right now... one US Dollar = .72648 Euros.

So the $8.16 Euros is the same as $5.93 / 40 lb. bag.

Bantam, you might have the calculation reversed. 8.16euros=U$11.23 at today's exchange rate.

 

[summit]

It was a bit of a shock to realize the skyhigh price I'm paying for my pellets.

imacman's example of $ 5.00 each bag ( 40 lbs. ) in the United States is about half of what I'm paying hh:

For a bag of 20 kilograms ( 44 lbs. ) I pay $11.1. That's exactly $10 for a 40 lbs. bag.

As I live in a rather dense populated part of a major city, I don't have storage opportunity for two or more tons of pellets, which is where the discount offers start.
I only have room for max. five bags, so no discount for me.

I've done a little research on pricing...
With discount ( minimum 2 tons ) the very best premium quality pellets can be found at about 2000 Danish Kroner for a metric ton.
That's $8.16 each bag of 40 lbs. Still a very high price.

Yes, heating with pellets certainly has become popular in Europe with skyrocketing prices as a consequence. :roll:

Pellet stoves are also much more expensive here than in the US.
The cheapest I've seen recently is a very basic and ugly stove made somewhere in Italy... 10000,- DK Kroner. That's $1850

The pellet stove of my dreams, however... the one I would buy if my Whitfield should break down and was impossible to repair, is a Thelin "Gnome". It looks cool, both fans are driven by the same armature, it does the 12 V DC thing and it's not overstuffed with a fragile electronics.
Here in Denmark a "Gnome" costs 20000,- DK Kroner = $3700. Now, that's expensive isn't it?

How much would a brand new Thelin "Gnome" cost in the United States?

Bo

Last time we looked at the thelin stoves, bare bones black were close to 1600 dollars OUR cost (landed) , which means, retail woulda been 2300 retail, or 3100 euros at current exchange rate, roughly. That was @ 5 yrs ago.

 

[summit]

although, stovensen, I would highly reccomend a Harman for U, as they do ship to Europe, and pump more heat than any cutsie stove ever thought of doing.

BTW, what kinda pellets are you running into in Europe? do you guys have alot of premiums, super premiums? or is it a mish mash of regular grade?

 

[Stentor]

although, stovensen, I would highly reccomend a Harman for U, as they do ship to Europe, and pump more heat than any cutsie stove ever thought of doing.

BTW, what kinda pellets are you running into in Europe? do you guys have alot of premiums, super premiums? or is it a mish mash of regular grade?

Also, Stoveson, how much choice do you have about places to buy pellets? Are there just a few suppliers of pellets near you or many? Do they all provide both industrial (higher ash, lower heat) versus superior residential pellets? Are they all small stores or some large stores?

Energy costs are very low in the U.S. although many people think they are high because we have little opportunity to compare. For example, gasoline for autos is only about $3 per gallon compared to about $6 for the same amount of fuel the last time I was in Europe. (One problem is that we never planned on smaller more efficient vehicles and so we waste a lot of fuel. We are also spread out geographically, so we have to drive more to shop and go to work places and schools.)

 

[Stovensen]

It was a bit of a shock to realize the skyhigh price I'm paying for my pellets.

imacman's example of $ 5.00 each bag ( 40 lbs. ) in the United States is about half of what I'm paying hh:

For a bag of 20 kilograms ( 44 lbs. ) I pay $11.1. That's exactly $10 for a 40 lbs. bag.

As I live in a rather dense populated part of a major city, I don't have storage opportunity for two or more tons of pellets, which is where the discount offers start.
I only have room for max. five bags, so no discount for me.

I've done a little research on pricing...
With discount ( minimum 2 tons ) the very best premium quality pellets can be found at about 2000 Danish Kroner for a metric ton.
That's $8.16 each bag of 40 lbs. Still a very high price.

Yes, heating with pellets certainly has become popular in Europe with skyrocketing prices as a consequence. :roll:

Pellet stoves are also much more expensive here than in the US.
The cheapest I've seen recently is a very basic and ugly stove made somewhere in Italy... 10000,- DK Kroner. That's $1850

The pellet stove of my dreams, however... the one I would buy if my Whitfield should break down and was impossible to repair, is a Thelin "Gnome". It looks cool, both fans are driven by the same armature, it does the 12 V DC thing and it's not overstuffed with a fragile electronics.
Here in Denmark a "Gnome" costs 20000,- DK Kroner = $3700. Now, that's expensive isn't it?

How much would a brand new Thelin "Gnome" cost in the United States?

Bo

Paying with American dollars or the Euro?

Right now... one US Dollar = .72648 Euros.

So the $8.16 Euros is the same as $5.93 / 40 lb. bag.

Bantam, some members of the European Union have not "joined the Euro currency". That goes for the United Kingdom, Sweden, Denmark and some others that I don't remember.
My math is bad, sorry.
lets see now, I found some pellets in the better quality range: 2000,- DK Kroner for a metric ton ( 2205 lbs. ). One US Dollar = 5.41 DK Kroner.
How many $ is that for a 40 lbs. bag?

Bo

 

[Stovensen]

HS Tarm MB-Solo


Stovensen, a neighbor of mine here in the Haute Savoie department of France just had 2 metric tons delivered at 199 euros/ton. I'd guess pellets cost about a third more in Europe than they do in the States. I burn wood, and we're paying close to U$300 per cord. Again, about a third more expensive in comparison to Stateside.

Drewmo, those pellets your neighbor bought for 199 Euros/ton are they super premium quality? And, are you sure each skid contains a whole metric ton? ( 2205 lbs. ).

I know where to buy standard grade pellets for even less than 199 Euros/ton, but I wouldn't dare to use those pellets, since they probably are made in Eastern Europe ( Lithaunia, Ukraine ) and may be contaminated with the highly radioactive isotope Caesium 137 from the Chernobyl disaster in 1986.

Wanna know more about radioactive wood pellets? Please read this thread:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/38966/

Bo

 

[lmjr]

Thelin
Little Gnome Pellet Stove
This pellet stove will switch to back up power
automatically when the power fails.



Starting As Low As
$2700.97

 

[Stovensen]

although, stovensen, I would highly reccomend a Harman for U, as they do ship to Europe, and pump more heat than any cutsie stove ever thought of doing.

BTW, what kinda pellets are you running into in Europe? do you guys have alot of premiums, super premiums? or is it a mish mash of regular grade?

summit, you know, there's a saying that goes something like "love makes you blind" and that's exactly how I feel about the Thelin "Gnome". Also, from reading about it here in this forum, it's one of the most silent pellet stoves in the world. I guess mainly due to the common armature for both fans which also means very low electric power consumption.
Furthermore, the "Gnome" has one the lowest particle emission rates, according to a list from the EPA.

As for the Harmans, well, they certainly have the most efficient heat exchanger system of all stoves and their special burn pot and feeding system is very advanced with some obvious advantages that are widely documented by Harman owners in this forum.

Still, the "Gnome" is the stove that would satisfy my personal taste right on the spot.
A couple of pics of the antigue coal stove I had before the installation of the Whitfield Quest Plus in 2008 will show better than 1000 words why the thelin is my favourite.
This antigue coal stove shown on the pics was made in Denmark around 1898 and was installed as new in the house in 1898. The house is also from 1898.
This coalstove is a so called "crown stove" ( krone ovn ) because of the crown at the top. It is still fully functional and as you can see, it has much resemblance to the Thelin "Gnome".
If pellet prices get unacceptable high it may be necessary to swap the Whitfield with the crown stove. It can burn coal, coke and wood.
As for pellet quality we have a lot of choices, but it's a jungle to navigate. The cheapest should be avoided unless one has a Geiger-Müller counter in the household as they might be radioactive as stated in my answer above.
The very best quality ( super premium ) pellets are from www.stampemollen.dk and they cost 2198,- DK kroner for a skid of 960 kilograms (2117 lbs.)
One US Dollar = 5.41 DK Kroner.
How much is that in $ for 40 lbs. bag? Sorry, but my math is worse than bad.

Bo

 

[Stovensen]

although, stovensen, I would highly reccomend a Harman for U, as they do ship to Europe, and pump more heat than any cutsie stove ever thought of doing.

BTW, what kinda pellets are you running into in Europe? do you guys have alot of premiums, super premiums? or is it a mish mash of regular grade?

Also, Stoveson, how much choice do you have about places to buy pellets? Are there just a few suppliers of pellets near you or many? Do they all provide both industrial (higher ash, lower heat) versus superior residential pellets? Are they all small stores or some large stores?

Energy costs are very low in the U.S. although many people think they are high because we have little opportunity to compare. For example, gasoline for autos is only about $3 per gallon compared to about $6 for the same amount of fuel the last time I was in Europe. (One problem is that we never planned on smaller more efficient vehicles and so we waste a lot of fuel. We are also spread out geographically, so we have to drive more to shop and go to work places and schools.)

Stentor, as I've only been a pellet stove owner for less than two seasons my knowledge and experience is very limited. But the pellet pricing/quality market is a jungle to navigate, that's for sure.
Some people in the countryside have large pellet furnaces capable of handling the industrial quality pellets that are blown by compressed air into large hoppers. However, this rough handling of the pellets causes the pellets to decompose and a lot of fines are released. I've heard of augerjams caused by too many fines from this "blowing cirkus".

Heating with pellets is still rather young, so many improvements are likely to be seen in the nearest future. Both as for the stoves/furnaces and the pellets.
To me as a pelletconsumer here in Europe I would like some more control with the potential health hazards in pellets imported from Eastern Europe. Are they radioactive or not?

Bo

 

[Stovensen]

Thelin
Little Gnome Pellet Stove
This pellet stove will switch to back up power
automatically when the power fails.



Starting As Low As
$2700.97

Master of Smoke, $2700 , that's $1000 less than I must pay for it here :bug: I guess I'll keep my Whitfield then. It does a wonderful job and throws out a lot of heat, in fact, the Whitfield Quest Plus is too big for our house.

A Whitfield Quest Plus has a rated maximum heat output of 8 kWh ( 27000 BTUs )

How much is the rated heat output of a Thelin Gnome?

I found a BTU to kWh conversion site here:

http://www.mhi-inc.com/Converter/watt_calculator.htm

Bo

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Stovensen,

The Gnome specifications are as follows:

FEED RATE: High: 4 lbs/hr - Low: 1 lb/hr

Combustion Efficiency: 94%

BTU: 31,300 Input 9.167 KWH

BTU: 21,600 Output 6.326 KWH

Heat Exchange Efficiency: 69%

Power consumption: 27 watts

As far as looks goes it is a nifty parlor stove but I'll stick to my ugly collection of parts as it is better at getting the heat out of the pellets and into my house.

 

[lmjr]

Stovensen,

"Love is Blind", you say, well, go with your heart...everything else is is just for "Bragging Rights" or perhaps Economics.

That "starting at price" is for base model...plain...you get to add various levels of cosmetic trim to go even higher in price.

94% Combustion Efficiency is impressive for emissions, as you noted.

Heat exchanger efficiency...oh well 69%...run a longer vent inside before exiting for additional gain, or increase surface area on shorter vent to gain.

Love will find a way!

 

[summit]

The very best quality ( super premium ) pellets are from www.stampemollen.dk and they cost 2198,- DK kroner for a skid of 960 kilograms (2117 lbs.)
One US Dollar = 5.41 DK Kroner.
How much is that in $ for 40 lbs. bag? Sorry, but my math is worse than bad.

Bo

if my math is right, then the total per bag in the U.S. dollar for a bag of your super premuim pellets in Europe would be $7.67 per 40 lb bag. This would be about about 35% more than what we pay in my part of the U.S. (the beautiful state of Maine) for a 40lb bag of super premium pellets.

 

[lmjr]

although, stovensen, I would highly reccomend a Harman for U, as they do ship to Europe, and pump more heat than any cutsie stove ever thought of doing.

BTW, what kinda pellets are you running into in Europe? do you guys have alot of premiums, super premiums? or is it a mish mash of regular grade?

summit, you know, there's a saying that goes something like "love makes you blind" and that's exactly how I feel about the Thelin "Gnome". Also, from reading about it here in this forum, it's one of the most silent pellet stoves in the world. I guess mainly due to the common armature for both fans which also means very low electric power consumption.
Furthermore, the "Gnome" has one the lowest particle emission rates, according to a list from the EPA.

As for the Harmans, well, they certainly have the most efficient heat exchanger system of all stoves and their special burn pot and feeding system is very advanced with some obvious advantages that are widely documented by Harman owners in this forum.

Still, the "Gnome" is the stove that would satisfy my personal taste right on the spot.
A couple of pics of the antigue coal stove I had before the installation of the Whitfield Quest Plus in 2008 will show better than 1000 words why the thelin is my favourite.
This antigue coal stove shown on the pics was made in Denmark around 1898 and was installed as new in the house in 1898. The house is also from 1898.
This coalstove is a so called "crown stove" ( krone ovn ) because of the crown at the top. It is still fully functional and as you can see, it has much resemblance to the Thelin "Gnome".
If pellet prices get unacceptable high it may be necessary to swap the Whitfield with the crown stove. It can burn coal, coke and wood.
As for pellet quality we have a lot of choices, but it's a jungle to navigate. The cheapest should be avoided unless one has a Geiger-Müller counter in the household as they might be radioactive as stated in my answer above.
The very best quality ( super premium ) pellets are from www.stampemollen.dk and they cost 2198,- DK kroner for a skid of 960 kilograms (2117 lbs.)
One US Dollar = 5.41 DK Kroner.
How much is that in $ for 40 lbs. bag? Sorry, but my math is worse than bad.

Bo

Bo,

Was thinking of you when I seen this at eBay USA:



WOOD-COAL-STOVE-BY-GODIN-MADE-IN-FRANCE

 

[smalltown]

Always wanted a Godin stove they made two sizes as I recall the petite and the grande.

 

[Stovensen]

[quote author="Master of Smoke" date="1269413491
Bo,

Was thinking of you when I seen this at eBay USA:



WOOD-COAL-STOVE-BY-GODIN-MADE-IN-FRANCE[/quote]

Master of Smoke,

This is a strange coincidence, you see, a few years ago when I was looking for a wood stove or pellet stove to replace the old 1898 crown stove, I saw a Godin at a dealers shop. My wife was absolutely pleased with the looks of the Godin and so was I.
It was rather pricey, however, and soon I found my present Whitfield at a much more reasonable price.

The classic bay view style of a Whitfield Quest Plus is also cool, brass trim and all.

The Godin for sale here on eBay has a very rare color combination, the one we saw in the shop had the same dark ceramic enamel on all the exterior parts. They are high quality stoves for sure.

Thanks for posting the link.

Bo