Weird weather equals smoke in the house. Why an OAK is a good idea.

[smwilliamson]

So I'm at a clients home today cleaning out two Whitfields, a P20 and a P30. After a very thorough cleaning of the P30 I start it up. OH NO! Smoke is pouring into the house. Quickly I grab the burnpot out with vice grips and bring it outside and then toss my shop vac in to the exterior clean out vent. I double check everything and start it up again. Oh No!! More smoke, but then the fire catches and it quickly escapes. Weird hugh?

So I go up stairs and clean out the P20, after a very thorough cleaning I start it up. OH NO!! smoke in the house. And a lot of it!! YIKES! Before I can move the burnpot out the fire catches and the smoke escapes....Couldn't figure it out.

I go up on the roof to inspect the rain caps in the vent pipes and I found the problem. She had her house attic vents on to cool off the house cause it was so muggy. Hmmm.

I turned the attic vents off and restarted the stoves. No problems. Who would of thunk it. Another one for the check lists. Boy this list gets longer and longer each year.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

LOL,

I guess those attic suckers are a might stronger than the combustion fans in those Whitfields.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

ive had callers with smoke issues with their woodstoves that only happen occasionally , after asking a bevy ofquestions looking for commonalities found both attic fans , and in a couple cases clothes dryers have turned out to be the culprit. any device which removes air from a house creates or adds to negative pressure. OAK eliminates this in most all cases

 

[mark d fellows]

Interesting. At one point I had to think about this phenomenon as I was going to get one of those portable heat pumps just to heat the basement. They have a return air, and a fresh air hose. What a lot of people do, is just hook up the exhaust hose to blow the cold air outside in the winter, and use the inside air to pull the heat energy from. THis creates a negative pressure, and I was worried it would make my stove back up into the house.

 

[smwilliamson]

Apearently this is also a big concern with resturants that have fireplaces. The kitchen fans can cause very smokey diningrooms.

 

[mark d fellows]

Apearently this is also a big concern with resturants that have fireplaces. The kitchen fans can cause very smokey diningrooms.

Makes lots of sense.

I still haven't figured out how I am going to heat the basement. A friend is giving me a wood stove, but I am not sure what I am going to do with it, as I am afraid to cut holes in the poured concrete foundation.

Mark

 

[Vinelife]

Yeah I made sure when I had mine installed that I had them put in the outside air kit thing...

 

[nosaudioil]

With my NPS40 during a power failure the smoke from the un-burned fuel will take the least of resistance way out through the stove's OAK input and into the general living area. Twice is too much. This fall an OAK is on the list. Soon.

 

[mark d fellows]

With my NPS40 during a power failure the smoke from the un-burned fuel will take the least of resistance way out through the stove's OAK input and into the general living area. Twice is too much. This fall an OAK is on the list. Soon.

I had mine built with a five foot vertical draft, so that in a power outage, it would hopefully continue out the flue. I tried it twice by unplugging the power, and it worked both times without smoke in the house.

 

[nosaudioil]

I do have a 6' vertical rise on the flue and all works under normal conditions. It is possible that the smoke came through the OAK because the weather was foggy/drizzle low pressure with snow on the ground. We have those conditions often in the winter.

 

[mark d fellows]

I do have a 6' vertical rise on the flue and all works under normal conditions. It is possible that the smoke came through the OAK because the weather was foggy/drizzle low pressure with snow on the ground. We have those conditions often in the winter.

That makes perfect sense. Now a battery powered back up combustion fan is needed in the flue pipe!

You could take a photo sensor circuit (the kind that makes those plug in lights come on when it gets dark) or maybe the circuitry from one of those plug in flash lights that come on when the lights go out, and instead of lighting a bulb, you can turn a dc fan to evacuate the left over gas out of the house.

Just a crazy thought!

Mark

 

[nosaudioil]

Thanks Mark, a good idea!

 

[save$]

After two years of "if and why" I opted to put in OAK. I bought a Simpson Dura Vent kit with the 2 inch pipe. I saw a demo of this install on you tube. When it came, I tried to lengthen the tube as I was told it could be. To my surprise, one end burst apart like unrolling a ribbon. I was able to salvage most of the pipe, Now shorter, I had to use PVC to go out the wall. I've yet to run the stove. We have been having all this tropical air and rain. Tomorrow, it is for-casted to be 50 to 60 and cooler at night, so here is to hoping I'll get to run the stove and see if there is a noticeable difference. I'll let it run out of pellets. That is usually when I get a wood smell. Not much, but enough to know what has happened.

 

[mark d fellows]

let us know!

 

[mark d fellows]

Thanks Mark, a good idea!

You know, in thinking about this idea. If you can make this, patent it as soon as possible. I would bet that stove manufacturers would want to incorporate this into their stoves. They could actually do this easily, just by putting the circuitry, and a small battery in the bottom back of the stove.

You would only need to run the dc fan for maybe 45 minutes while the pellets smolder out. You wouldn't need a lot of power, just enough to pull the already heated smoke out the chimeney. Since it is already heated, it is prone to create a draft while it rises up the flue anyway.

Since you have weird weather and this doesn't happen, maybe just a little nudge is all you need.

On second thought....

I have an idea, but I am not going to tell you about it. It is easy to do though. I might make one of these.


Mark

 

[stoveguy2esw]

After two years of "if and why" I opted to put in OAK. I bought a Simpson Dura Vent kit with the 2 inch pipe. I saw a demo of this install on you tube. When it came, I tried to lengthen the tube as I was told it could be. To my surprise, one end burst apart like unrolling a ribbon. I was able to salvage most of the pipe, Now shorter, I had to use PVC to go out the wall. I've yet to run the stove. We have been having all this tropical air and rain. Tomorrow, it is for-casted to be 50 to 60 and cooler at night, so here is to hoping I'll get to run the stove and see if there is a noticeable difference. I'll let it run out of pellets. That is usually when I get a wood smell. Not much, but enough to know what has happened.

not trying to be picky but PVC is not allowable for OAK on any solid fuel burnig appliance anymore , the possibility of excessive heat backventing and distorting the pipe is the reason i think. needs to be a metal pipe at least 26 ga i think (would have to consult the book to verify and im at home now without my trusty red book of code ;(

 

[gyingling]

As far as an OAK is concerned, the back of my Enviro Windsor has the opening for the pipe, but also alot of slotting around the opening and across the back. Won't that allow cold air to flow in? At least when it is off I assume it would allow air in.

 

[Don2222]

Hello

Great discussion on OAKs guys and great reasons to use one. I have a flapper in my OAK that I can close when the stove is not in use. This summer I OAKed up the oil boiler so their will be no more nice heated room air going up the chimneys Also may help not pulling any smoke from the pellet stove !! We will see.

See Boiler OAK https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/58957/

Great info

Thanks again!!

 

[save$]

After two years of "if and why" I opted to put in OAK. I bought a Simpson Dura Vent kit with the 2 inch pipe. I saw a demo of this install on you tube. When it came, I tried to lengthen the tube as I was told it could be. To my surprise, one end burst apart like unrolling a ribbon. I was able to salvage most of the pipe, Now shorter, I had to use PVC to go out the wall. I've yet to run the stove. We have been having all this tropical air and rain. Tomorrow, it is for-casted to be 50 to 60 and cooler at night, so here is to hoping I'll get to run the stove and see if there is a noticeable difference. I'll let it run out of pellets. That is usually when I get a wood smell. Not much, but enough to know what has happened.

not trying to be picky but PVC is not allowable for OAK on any solid fuel burnig appliance anymore , the possibility of excessive heat backventing and distorting the pipe is the reason i think. needs to be a metal pipe at least 26 ga i think (would have to consult the book to verify and im at home now without my trusty red book of code ;(

Good to know. But in my own defenseless defense, I did get the idea of using the PVC from mutiple postings in other OAK discsussions. In fact, a England stove salesman told me that was what he was told to do when he was at some England stove instruction work shop. But all said and done, but goal is to be safe or have an insurance issue should a problem come about. the venting pip I was using was 2 in flex. No idea on the gage, but it is sold as the proper item. I think it is the same as what comes with the England stoves. My idea now is to splice into the existing metal vent with additional metal legnth. what I think would be ideal is to find suitable 2 in solid piping with a two inch elbow. Can't find either flex or solid two in. at any local distrubutors.

 

[Don2222]

Hello

You can get 2" muffler flex pipe or rigid pipe to use for the 2" venting. Also there is 2" flex pipe used to go from the exhaust manifold to the air cleaner on older cars. AutoZone still carries that. It is called PreHeater Hose

Fireplace Village
http://www.fireplacevillage.net/resources/venting-options.htm

I used 2" flue liner from Fireplace Village and a piece of Muffler Pipe to go thru the house and bollt to the metal vent See pics.

 

[save$]

let us know!

So, I now have the fresh OAK installed. Be it with a little PVC after a 2 foot metal run from the stove. I have the stove set on 3.5 with the draft just open a little (1), what an impressive fire! Always before the OAK I would run the stove at 4.5 and air wide open to get a reasonable burn. I tried opening the draft more, but the pellets burned up too fast resulting in a less steady flame. I let the stove run out of pellets. No smoke odor detected.
This is all from only a single night burn. Usually resistive to posting results until I get repeated results. By the way, I have ordered another air kit for a additional length of of pipe so I can remove the PVC that goes out of the house. Best to do it right and sleep well.

 

[Don2222]

Hello Save$

Glad to hear the results! I knew the OAK is the best way to go so I never even tried my pellet stove without it. Good to know about the smaller intake air setting. That must be why there are 2" connections for 2" inch pipe! I always had plenty of air for my burns.

I now have an OAK on my gas fireplace, Oil burner and Pellet stove so I am ready for this winter!

So good luck and happy burning this winter!