What is a safe temp?

[Dpregs]

Hey Hearthers,

So, as you may have read I had my Quadra 4100i installed the other day. We have gone through a few burn and cools to break it in. Today we have been getting snow and temps have really dropped so I would like to use the stove more, but I have a quick question. What is a safe operating temp? I bought a magnetic thermometer at HomeDepot and stuck it right above the door. It has been reading between 400 and 500 degrees.....too much or too little?

 

[Corey]

You are above the door, most people look at top/center of the firebox - so 400-500F above the door, it will be hotter- maybe 600ish on the top - so that is a pretty good range. I got home yesterday and cranked the stove, finally got to the point where I thought I was getting some "good" heat and the top was about 825F, I'd consider that pretty much 'full bore' much higher and the phrase 'over firing' starts getting kicked around.

 

[RedRanger]

Wondering the same thing.?/ Maybe one of the Mod`s can come in on this. I have my magnetic thermometer on the front door (near the top) on my insert. A PE insert pre EPA but similiar to the Pacific. I was thinking that 400 would probably be about 600, and 200 would keep me out of the creosote zone. Am aware that all inserts are different, but have been running mine at 450 max and 200 for a longer burn, according to the front mounted thermometer. What gives me a sense that this must be about right is --no hot metal smell, and no creosote on the glass. So do you think maybe just add 200 degrees and that just might be the "stove top temp"?? Don`t want to put anyone on the spot here, just your best guess? And remember this is an older PE insert. So, I don`t get that secondary burn feature.

 

[webbie]

As I mentioned in another thread, you always have to see what the air flow (combustion air) in the inside of the stove is, because many stoves bring the air into manifolds that are behind the front panel of the stove - and above the door! This would obviously cool the temperatures there.

So I would say that any stove without a clear single wall area exposed to the fire - a magnetic might not go much good except in a relative manner. It would be better to gauge the heat by the look and feel of the fire - you can tell when a fire is burning right, and you can tell when a stove is putting out heat.

Putting thermometers on the outside of double wall stoves and on air manifolds is, IMHO, pretty worthless. If other have opinions or experiences on this, feel free to butt in here.

 

[DaleZ]

Now I'm wondering, I run my stove at no more than 500 at 24" above stove on a single wall pipe. Stove pipe is getting shiny and changing color for a good 8" where it exits stove(top flue) is this normal or am I burnig to hot?

 

[RedRanger]

Okay Craig: My older PE insert seems to fire in the back of the fire. That seems to be where most of the combustion takes place., Like , in the back of the insert, raging,---!! in the front , not much action. But hot is hot. Tonight, I let it roar for a while, like 2 hours, and the magnetic thermometor, is reading 500. The rec-room 15x26, with 7.5ft ceiling, is 82, nice and toasty. I am just asking you for an educated guess, about what that gauge is reading on the top front of my insert? Like, is that 500 reading, really about 700 or 800 on top? Just asking for an estimate, Please think about many of us that don`t have the newer inserts or stoves. The thermomoter is located on the front vertical near the glass. Not on the top, impossible to place it there. Please --just an educated guess, that is all were are asking for>

 

[granpajohn]

Drayu, as you've figured out by now, the 4100i has a cast iron shelf top which lifts off to reveal the steel of the stove. This is the area where the blower moves heated air. I have roughly calibrated my mag thermometer by temporarily removing the cast shelf, (wearing welding gloves), then putting the thermo on the steel surface. It will very quickly register the stove temp. Then it can be placed back on the shelf or front or anywhere, and you can have a reasonable comparison of what the thermometer really means when it says 300F (or whatever). Keep the blower off throughout this process.
As a safety item, I don't recommend burning the stove without that shelf on for very long. I'm sure the clearence to combustible is way off without that piece. (The whole experiment only takes 5-10 minutes.) And of course, don't forget that the blower is cooling that steel surface whenever it's going.

 

[webbie]

It is am impossible question for me to answer as to what the relative temperature is on a certain stove model - by using the temp on the outside of a double wall portion - or even on the pipe.

The inside of a stove is likely to be in the 1200-1400 degree range (in certain places) . The means the exteriors usually peak at 900-1000, on a single wall hot spot.

Since most stoves are tested by UL with vastly hotter fuel than you can use (unless you burn trash, particle board, etc.), it makes sense to say that the setting of the draft control on a normal stove should usually have said stove somewhere within a safe range. That does not count for some variables, such as a strong overdraft or leaving an ash pan door open.

As far as paint burning off or dulling on a single wall stove pipe or even a stove surface, that is relatively normal.

I don't mean to skirt the question (of temps on the outside of a double wall), but there really is no answer - not even a guess...which would be "generic".

On some stoves/inserts, you can figure it this way. If the same stove has close clearances (when set up freestanding), then it makes sense that the double wall sides and rear have only hit lower temps- probably 400-650, during the UL tests (a total guess - only fancy calculations or an actual trial would yield the real number), whereas a single wall stove (sides and rear single) might have clearances of 24-40" or more - and during the UL test hit temps of 1200 (glowing) on those parts. One example is that VC has said is is OK that the flue collar on some of their stoves glows red - that mean generally at least 1000 degrees or more (to be really visible).

 

[Cearbhaill]

I have my magnetic thermometer on the front door (near the top) on my insert. A PE insert pre EPA but similiar to the Pacific. I was thinking that 400 would probably be about 600, and 200 would keep me out of the creosote zone. Am aware that all inserts are different, but have been running mine at 450 max and 200 for a longer burn, according to the front mounted thermometer. What gives me a sense that this must be about right is --no hot metal smell, and no creosote on the glass. So do you think maybe just add 200 degrees and that just might be the "stove top temp"?? Don`t want to put anyone on the spot here, just your best guess? And remember this is an older PE insert. So, I don`t get that secondary burn feature.

I am very new at this- it's my first season burning, so my experiences are just that- mine.

I have played around with my PE insert a lot though and have found that for my particular insert and conditions the following is what works best. And by "works best" I mean gives me the longest secondary burn and allows me the most time between reloads.

I am using a PE Pacific insert and a Rutland magnetic thermometer placed on the top right front right above the corner of the door.

When I load I allow it to get up to around 500ºF, then I cut the air intake back a bit while it keeps inching upwards to 550ºF.
When it hits 550ºF I cut the air intake all the way back. The temperatures continue to escalate for a bit and usually peak right around 650ºF. I have had it get as high as 800ºF, though, but that felt a bit too hot for my newbie comfort level.

Once I cut the air back it hangs steady at 650ºF for a very long time- two hours or more- then slowly starts falling backwards for the next couple of hours. When it has fallen down to around 250-300ºF I load it up again and start all over.

The point that seems to make the most difference is how hot I allow it to get before I cut the air intake back. If I don't let it get quite hot enough no secondary burn happens and it cools down too fast. If I let it get too hot before I cut it back, it continues to get hotter and hotter and scares me. It seems that ±100º can make it or break it in this regard.

My process is the same whether I am doing small or large loads- the only difference is the larger loads last longer, so I determine the amount of wood I use to load up by how long I need it to go before I have to come back again.

With my insert the thermometer is right on the front, so I don't know what it is actually measuring other than the firebox and the steel of the front. But I use the thermometer for reference points only, so whatever it is measuring is sort of a moot point. I just know that 'x' temperature produces 'y' results and have just worked off of that.

Anyone with experience- feel free to correct me or tell me I'm doing it wrong. I am a complete novice and am just reporting what has worked best for me so far.

 

[webbie]

Toni, that's the idea - the best for your particular unit. While your thermometer may be on an area somewhat near an air manifold, the steel close to it (top and other parts) is single and very hot, so in this case it is transferring the full temp to the thermometer. The temps you mention are typical "single wall front or top" temps....or maybe 100 degree below that.

So the idea is "relative", not meaning your mother in law, but just as if you had a speedometer on your car with no numbers on it. You would soon figure out the best ranges.

 

[topcat]

hi drayu,i to also have the i4100 quad.i have my thermometer placed in the middle top of the door as well.i have been loading the stove full and letting her rip.i have gotten max temp. of a tad over 700.when this happens i usually turn up the blower so it doesn't go any higher.but for me it usually stays that way for an hour or 2 then backs down.so in my opinion 400-500 is fine you should be going higher if you choose with no problems.hope this helps.
tom

 

[Dpregs]

Thanks topcat and everyone else as well for the advice! I appreciate it!