What Outside Air Temp. makes your Secondaries Cranky?

[Troutchaser]

I've noticed the secondary combustion on my stove getting finicky with these 40 deg. evening temps. Seems I just can't keep it engaged. Not sure if this is a symptom of my particular technology (downdraft), or if cats and burns tubes go through this as well.

 

[BrotherBart]

It is just harder to get a strong chimney draft in warmer weather. No matter what is hanging off the bottom of said chimney.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

We just adjust our stove temperature to what is required and don't worry about secondaries.

 

[Highbeam]

I have no issues with getting secondary combustion even when temps are up near 60. Good dry wood. I have the minimum stack height but all vertical.

Yes, we burn when it's 60 because is is raining, dark out, and the house feels better at 80.

 

[fire_man]

I have no issues with getting secondary combustion even when temps are up near 60. Good dry wood. I have the minimum stack height but all vertical.

Yes, we burn when it's 60 because is is raining, dark out, and the house feels better at 80.

I'm telling Al Gore on you right now.

 

[Troutchaser]

We just adjust our stove temperature to what is required and don't worry about secondaries.

I'm intrigued by that Savage, as I don't feel I'm burning right if I'm not getting secondary combustion. How would you burn the stove on those nights when secondary is too hot, but shouldering doesn't quite cut it?
Since I've been on this site, I only see two choices: Long burn with secondaries and Short burns without. What about a 450deg. stove for 4 or 5 hours?
Can that be done without Al Gore knowing?

 

[begreen]

Here's a pressure difference chart that shows the effect of outside temps on draft:

http://www.woodheat.org/chimneys/aboutchimneys.htm

 

[maxed_out]

Here's a pressure difference chart that shows the effect of outside temps on draft:

http://www.woodheat.org/chimneys/aboutchimneys.htm

Thats a great document and explains a lot of things I've seen and experienced. Thanks!

 

[Troutchaser]

Great info. Thanks

 

[Highbeam]

Be careful about these guys with cat stoves making quasi-useful comments in a thread about secondary combustion. The cat stoves need no secondary combustion due to their cat. I think he was making a joke.

My stone stove easily cruises below 400 for the entire burn cycle. It's a whole different world than trying to run a plate steel non-cat low.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

We can air it down and run at 300-325 all day. and I don't notice the secondaries kicking in, but I also see NO smoke outside, and glass is clean.

HOWEVER... she really doesn't go for that.

TRUE STORY...

Just this afternoon, I come in from washing the truck, it's about 45 outside. Stove was loaded this morning about 8:30, it's about 1:00pm. Stove sitting at about 350. It's 74 in the house, about 82 in the living room, she is sitting on the stool about 8" in front of the stove with a sweater on. and her hands were cold.

 

[BrotherBart]

We can air it down and run at 300-325 all day. and I don't notice the secondaries kicking in, but I also see NO smoke outside, and glass is clean.

Yep. This stuff about having to burn non-cats like you want to melt your furniture is a crock. It is 46, cloudy and windy outside and the 30-NC has been sitting there keeping the joint at 72 all smokeless day.

 

[stanleyjohn]

Temp now in mid 30s outside and secondary in back chamber been purring great last few hours in my downdraft stove,but i do have a few backpuffing at times !think its due to my airflow being shut way down.

 

[trailrated]

We just adjust our stove temperature to what is required and don't worry about secondaries.

Same here, I'm tired of fooling with the stove to get the secondaries to combust. I just load the stove and if they engage, well that is just a bonus.

 

[Smokey Bear]

Troutchaser, how is your bed of coals, in warmer weather a really good bed coals helps. Of course maybe you don't want all that heat.

 

[BrotherBart]

... I'm tired of fooling with the stove to get the secondaries to combust. I just load the stove and if they engage, well that is just a bonus.

By George I think he's got it. If you want special effects you can go to a movie. If you want heat you just set a nice fire in your stove.

 

[Troutchaser]

Ya, the bed of coals will have the stove sitting at 600 no problem. That alone heats the living room on a 40 deg. day. Throw a few logs on there and get them charred and then downdraft and you're going to hit 650.

Wood isn't ideal. Maybe drier wood would allow me to downdraft at lower temps.

So no kidding, you guys can load a stove on coals, drop the air way down, and see no smoke? Teach me.

 

[Pagey]

Ya, the bed of coals will have the stove sitting at 600 no problem. That alone heats the living room on a 40 deg. day. Throw a few logs on there and get them charred and then downdraft and you're going to hit 650.

Wood isn't ideal. Maybe drier wood would allow me to downdraft at lower temps.

So no kidding, you guys can load a stove on coals, drop the air way down, and see no smoke? Teach me.

I load mine up and then drop the air down in stages. If I slam it closed it will die and smolder. When I want good, meaningful heat, I reload when the Endeavor is around 300F on the stove top. Full load on a 2" bed of coals, bypass damper and primary air fully open. Around 400-450F I close the bypass damper. If the secondaries are really strong (depends on size of splits, configuration of splits, dryness, etc., blah), I close the primary about 1/3 or 1/2 at the same time. Then I back the primary down until the stove top settles in around 600-650F and I have nice, visible secondaries. My stove has this hair trigger adjustment (probably 1/8" or so) that means the difference between clean burning, active secondaries and smoke out the pipe, no visible secondaries. Reload process usually takes 15-30 minutes to get dialed in where I will leave it alone for the night (again, depending on aforementioned variables).

 

[Troutchaser]

Thanks Pagey, but I was assuming these guys were achieving smokeless, half-hearted burns without firing off the secondaries with burn tubes.
Maybe I'm nitpicking here. I just wanted the cleanest burn possible without overheating the house. And get it to last more than an hour. You know, what the guys did for clean burns pre-EPA.

With the Leyden, I've seen smoke with a 650deg. stove and a 1000deg. flue (bypass mode). I sometimes wonder if smoke doesn't get drawn through the combuster in the bottom back where it doesn't get super heated (burned)before heading skyward.

 

[Pagey]

I don't think I can achieve a smokeless fire without visible, active secondary combustion. It doesn't have to be full bore, raging Hell, licking the glass type secondary combustion, but if there is nothing going on in the top of the box, I get smoke.

 

[Troutchaser]

Maybe I'm just in "Woodburner's Hell" . . . per BeGreen's "too hot" thread.

 

[Pagey]

Maybe I'm just in "Woodburner's Hell" . . . per BeGreen's "too hot" thread.

That's a possibility, too. My stove likes to cruise around 600-650F. I can sometimes settle it in happy around 550F, but it just seems to gravitate towards 600. It's amazing how 600F seems too cold when it's in the teens, but it will run you out of the house in the 30s or 40s.

 

[Smokey Bear]

Like Pager said, I've found with my Lopi Leyden the slightest difference in air can make it smoke or not.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I have no issues with getting secondary combustion even when temps are up near 60. Good dry wood. I have the minimum stack height but all vertical.

Yes, we burn when it's 60 because is is raining, dark out, and the house feels better at 80.

==============
Same here, I burn at 60 as im trying to take the dampness out of a house im remodeling and to dry the Drywall Mud & paint
No problem with the secondaries in my downdraft Harman. THey work just fine even at 60Deg outside temp.
If your secondaries don,t work then don.t over load your stove or let it smolder just make your fire small and hot so you don,t creosote.