I don't understand all of the hate over electric vehicles, it's everywhere people spreading hatred over them and the people that own them. What is the reason for the hate? Is it if you don't understand it you must hate it? It seems to bleed over to lithium batteries and the mining of lithium.
Why so much hate over electric vehicles?
- Thread starter Eman85
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil. -
Super Cedar firestarters 30% discount Use code Hearth2024 Click here
- Status
I don't get it either but I don't think it's related to lithium or rare earth metal mining.
It reminds me of the initial reception that LED lighting got.
I think there's a basic fear of change that many have a hard time getting past.
It reminds me of the initial reception that LED lighting got.
I think there's a basic fear of change that many have a hard time getting past.
bogieb
Minister of Fire
Fear of change is probably part of it. But I also think a lot of people don't see it fitting in their lifestyle because of distances traveled daily, environment they live in and/or what they need to carry. And of course people are very much like, "well, if it doesn't fit my lifestyle, it just isn't any good for anyone." I mean, one of the matras of those that hate on gas driven vehicle types such as full sized SUV's, motorcycles, the large trucks (especailly those that are mostly for show not for work) and muscle cars is that "nobody NEEDS that". The same with McMansions and firearms (especially for those who own more than 1 or of a certain type).
Although I was never a hater, I didn't see soemthing like an electric vehicle fitting into my life (I still don't at this point). Until just a few years ago, electric vehicles did not have enough range for my lifestyle since my commute was 110 miles a day (heck, my shortest comute was 60 miles - no side trips). I've had add on another 20-40 miles because of road clooures for crashes/uppassable conditions in winter. Even when range got into the 300 miles+ category, my house electricity would not handle the extra load, so it would be a lot of money to invest in the personal infrastructure to put in a charging station. Add the high electric prices in my area (although this winter it went down), and it wouldn't make sense.
I live in an area with a fairly harsh winter environment so heating the vehicle and keeping windows clear would lower the range considerably (not to mention, 4-wheel drive is something I consider a necessity). My garage is very small and about the only thing that would fit in it is something the size of a Ford Focus or smaller (and I mean that literally). So charging a vehicle in my driveway and getting it to start in -18* weather would be challenging. I won't even go into the extra challenges that I can think of for my exact circumstances.
Additionally, I solely drive larger SUV because I need to haul pellets home (I can fit a ton in there) as well as big/heavy things from HD for house projects. Then I also haul logs/limbs from storm damage to the dump.
Add to all of the above, the fear that government will mandate what they drive (California and NY, I'm looking at you), and the disgust that some people get tax credits to help pay for the vehicles, and haters are born.
Although I was never a hater, I didn't see soemthing like an electric vehicle fitting into my life (I still don't at this point). Until just a few years ago, electric vehicles did not have enough range for my lifestyle since my commute was 110 miles a day (heck, my shortest comute was 60 miles - no side trips). I've had add on another 20-40 miles because of road clooures for crashes/uppassable conditions in winter. Even when range got into the 300 miles+ category, my house electricity would not handle the extra load, so it would be a lot of money to invest in the personal infrastructure to put in a charging station. Add the high electric prices in my area (although this winter it went down), and it wouldn't make sense.
I live in an area with a fairly harsh winter environment so heating the vehicle and keeping windows clear would lower the range considerably (not to mention, 4-wheel drive is something I consider a necessity). My garage is very small and about the only thing that would fit in it is something the size of a Ford Focus or smaller (and I mean that literally). So charging a vehicle in my driveway and getting it to start in -18* weather would be challenging. I won't even go into the extra challenges that I can think of for my exact circumstances.
Additionally, I solely drive larger SUV because I need to haul pellets home (I can fit a ton in there) as well as big/heavy things from HD for house projects. Then I also haul logs/limbs from storm damage to the dump.
Add to all of the above, the fear that government will mandate what they drive (California and NY, I'm looking at you), and the disgust that some people get tax credits to help pay for the vehicles, and haters are born.
Because they are being shoved down our throats by a bunch of hypocrites. Ban this, ban that.....then you see photos of them standing in their homes next to a gas stove, flying all over the world on jets, Aunt Kathy Hochul flying all over the state in a state helicopter, etc. These people have lost their minds when it come to global warming or climate change......depend on the day and what the weather is that day to determine what term they use. If people want to buy electric vehicles, have at it! Just don't tell me I NEED to.
There is a large fossil fuels industry awash with cash who wants to keep it that way, they are funding a lot of media attention on EV negative issues. The echo chamber is very big for negative EV news, as negative news gets eyeballs. How many times will someone look at a news headline that reports that someone is successfully charging their EV at home and driving to work and has been doing so for several months or years? No drama in that and no headlines. There is a very large block of MAGA aligned folks that do not think for themselves and instead believe outright lies and half truths from figures of authority that are telling them what they want to hear, its got to be true if they hear it multiple times as it has to be true or "they" wouldn't be saying it. Global warming is not a concern to the large block of religious voters who believe in the Biblical timeline and see the end times just around the corner. If the world is going to end in their lifetimes, there is no climate change and no need to make short term sacrifices.
Change is hard for many people, there are still plenty of Luddites out there and plenty of politicians and media that could care less about a future then how they can grab a chunk of the cash now. The temptation is to just keep the status quo, blame the government and beg for a handout when an extreme weather event upsets their life and bury their head in the sand. EVs are just a symbol for rapid change.
Change is hard for many people, there are still plenty of Luddites out there and plenty of politicians and media that could care less about a future then how they can grab a chunk of the cash now. The temptation is to just keep the status quo, blame the government and beg for a handout when an extreme weather event upsets their life and bury their head in the sand. EVs are just a symbol for rapid change.
Last edited:
It's not shoved down our throats, yet. The push is real though. It hasn't been pushed hard. At least in NY. Southern Cali may have a bigger push...IDK. Here, in NY, they know it isn't feasible. Like mentioned above, with harsh cold NE winters, a 20min trip would extend to over an hour. Unless, one chooses not to use the heater, wipers, headlights, and other battery robbing power. Routine stops to recharge, in an infrastructure that doesn't exist, would be necessary.
But there's no large block of liberal lunatics who can't think for themselves and just listen to whatever Kerry, Gates, Gore, etc spew? got it.
Then why is there a push to have all new vehicles of the EV kind by 2035 in NY?
I am totally against any sort of mandates on it. Once the battery tech is there mandates won't be needed people will mostly adopt on their own because it's just better tech. But it absolutely isn't there yet.
I do know quite a few people who use an ev as their primary if not only vehicle though and the horror stories being thrown around about them are greatly exaggerated
Last edited:
I suppose it’s greatly exaggerated until it’s happening to you. The best stories are about some hardship that you got through, but I really don’t want to experience any more hardships than I have to. I’ve been fortunate to have never run out of gas in all of the years I’ve been driving. Part of that is planning, part of that is the availability of gas stations. Until recharge stations are as numerous as gas stations there will be increased risk from electric vehicles.
I don’t hate on the technology. It’s not ready for my work, but my wife could use it. I don’t want it shoved down my throat like I’m seeing with mandates stopping natural gas from being installed in new houses, etc. it’s coming for cars if the politicians are given a say in it. If those who want it have the ability to get it, win! For those that don’t want it to have the ability to stay away from it, win! Wood stoves aren’t for everybody either.
I don’t hate on the technology. It’s not ready for my work, but my wife could use it. I don’t want it shoved down my throat like I’m seeing with mandates stopping natural gas from being installed in new houses, etc. it’s coming for cars if the politicians are given a say in it. If those who want it have the ability to get it, win! For those that don’t want it to have the ability to stay away from it, win! Wood stoves aren’t for everybody either.
Change is happening on a global scale. If America's automobile industry wants to compete and sell cars abroad, they need to be electric. Look at how quickly things are changing in Europe or Asia regarding cars. 31% of new cars in Germany are EVs, 30% in China.
In Europe, from 2025 onwards, Regulation (EU) 2019/631 sets stricter EU-wide CO2 fleet targets: a 15% reduction by 2025 for both cars and vans and, from 2030, a 50% reduction target for vans and a 55% reduction target for cars, all relative to a 2021 baseline. It also sets a zero-CO2 emission target for new cars and vans from 2035 onwards. A significant increase in the uptake of electric vehicles will be needed to achieve these goals.
www.eea.europa.eu
In Europe, from 2025 onwards, Regulation (EU) 2019/631 sets stricter EU-wide CO2 fleet targets: a 15% reduction by 2025 for both cars and vans and, from 2030, a 50% reduction target for vans and a 55% reduction target for cars, all relative to a 2021 baseline. It also sets a zero-CO2 emission target for new cars and vans from 2035 onwards. A significant increase in the uptake of electric vehicles will be needed to achieve these goals.
New registrations of electric vehicles in Europe
Considerable progress in the uptake of electric cars and vans in the EU was made in 2022, with 21.6% of new car registrations being electric vehicles. Totalling close to two million electric car registrations in one year, up from 1,74 million in 2021. The number of electric vans on European...
The federal gas stove "ban" does not exist. It was a proposal. I know of some bans for gas stoves in new construction in some cities in California. There are well known negative effects to gas stoves- they pollute a lot. Burning fuel with an open flame is about the worst way for pollution. You wouldn't burn a puddle of gasoline in the house even if it was safe just due to the pollution. A gas stove is pretty much the same thing.
We recently got a CO2 meter which I left in the great room that has the kitchen on one end. Last night we had a couple burners going making Christmas dinner. The CO2 levels are in the 450-550 range normally (leaky '80s house) but hit 900 after cooking with multiple burners going. That's the highest we've seen. Of course that meter is not measuring the other pollutants, which are worse for health.
Supposedly induction stoves do pretty well these days. For our new house we're planning 100% electrical with induction stove, heat pumps and heat pump clothes dryer replacing what are propane appliances in our current house.
BTW for 100 years there's been a concerted effort by the gas industry to promote gas stoves. Not because they're good for us but because they're good for the gas industry. Remember the tag line "now we're cooking with gas"? That was placed with Bob Hope by the ad agency. https://www.motherjones.com/environ...ustry-convinced-americans-to-love-gas-stoves/
We recently got a CO2 meter which I left in the great room that has the kitchen on one end. Last night we had a couple burners going making Christmas dinner. The CO2 levels are in the 450-550 range normally (leaky '80s house) but hit 900 after cooking with multiple burners going. That's the highest we've seen. Of course that meter is not measuring the other pollutants, which are worse for health.
Supposedly induction stoves do pretty well these days. For our new house we're planning 100% electrical with induction stove, heat pumps and heat pump clothes dryer replacing what are propane appliances in our current house.
BTW for 100 years there's been a concerted effort by the gas industry to promote gas stoves. Not because they're good for us but because they're good for the gas industry. Remember the tag line "now we're cooking with gas"? That was placed with Bob Hope by the ad agency. https://www.motherjones.com/environ...ustry-convinced-americans-to-love-gas-stoves/
Gas ban:
amp.cnn.com
New York becomes the first state to ban natural gas stoves and furnaces in most new buildings | CNN
New York is the first state in the country to ban natural gas and other fossil fuels in most new buildings – a major win for climate advocates, but a move that could spark pushback from fossil fuel interests.
Here's an example:
Per the Canadian government, the sale of gasoline and diesel powered vehicles will be banned by year 2035. Okay, that's enough to incite a lot of people.
Investigation reveals that the legislation states all vehicles sold need to be "zero-emission" by 2035.
Deep research into government documents reveals that our incompetent government has defined a "zero-emission-vehicle" as any vehicle "capable of being zero emissions". So a PHEV qualifies as a ZEV.
So basically you could buy a PHEV, never plug it in and meet the 2035 standard.
Maybe this is why people are mad, confused and frustrated. Our government can't even clearly define to the people what they want our their intentions. Pretty easy for any EV naysayer to have a field day with this.
Per the Canadian government, the sale of gasoline and diesel powered vehicles will be banned by year 2035. Okay, that's enough to incite a lot of people.
Investigation reveals that the legislation states all vehicles sold need to be "zero-emission" by 2035.
Deep research into government documents reveals that our incompetent government has defined a "zero-emission-vehicle" as any vehicle "capable of being zero emissions". So a PHEV qualifies as a ZEV.
So basically you could buy a PHEV, never plug it in and meet the 2035 standard.
Maybe this is why people are mad, confused and frustrated. Our government can't even clearly define to the people what they want our their intentions. Pretty easy for any EV naysayer to have a field day with this.
If this is a mystery, it may be due to a lifetime of swallowing everything.
My personal perspective from professional experience and input:
Forcing people to buy a certain type of technology is just un-American.
Lithium mining for batteries makes us more dependant on other countries for resources, which is a concern of mine. Also that mining is super super messed up for our earth. When those batteries die, it's almost pointless to re-power them due to cost. You can rebuild an ICE for a fraction of the cost of a new battery pack.
Our grid infrastructure can not support the ammount of electric battery vehicles on the road already and it's getting worse. This will force us to use mass transit to visit your family in another state (which still needs to use fuel due to distance). In another 20 years, taking the family on a road trip to visit our national monuments will no longer be a memory the youth will have.
Lastly, why is it our problem to solve the worlds issues? Other countries already pollute 10x more than we do.
Forcing people to buy a certain type of technology is just un-American.
Lithium mining for batteries makes us more dependant on other countries for resources, which is a concern of mine. Also that mining is super super messed up for our earth. When those batteries die, it's almost pointless to re-power them due to cost. You can rebuild an ICE for a fraction of the cost of a new battery pack.
Our grid infrastructure can not support the ammount of electric battery vehicles on the road already and it's getting worse. This will force us to use mass transit to visit your family in another state (which still needs to use fuel due to distance). In another 20 years, taking the family on a road trip to visit our national monuments will no longer be a memory the youth will have.
Lastly, why is it our problem to solve the worlds issues? Other countries already pollute 10x more than we do.
Funny that no one can actually point to anything real being done to force evs on people in the us. But many people constantly claim its true
Tax incentives and rebates paid by my taxes are tantamount to being "forced".
Legislation to eliminate combustion engine vehicles is tantamount to being "forced".
Increasing fossil fuel taxes to the highest in the nation and the Governor (Inslee) stating that a way to avoid these taxes is to go electric is tantamount to being "forced".
Being subjected to a mileage tax for fossil fueled vehicles, and not electric vehicles, is tantamount to being "forced"
Outlawing fossil fueled outdoor power equipment is tantamount to being "forced".
Etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam. - At least that is what makes me feel "forced" in Washington state. It might feel different to East-Coast yankees.
Legislation to eliminate combustion engine vehicles is tantamount to being "forced".
Increasing fossil fuel taxes to the highest in the nation and the Governor (Inslee) stating that a way to avoid these taxes is to go electric is tantamount to being "forced".
Being subjected to a mileage tax for fossil fueled vehicles, and not electric vehicles, is tantamount to being "forced"
Outlawing fossil fueled outdoor power equipment is tantamount to being "forced".
Etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam. - At least that is what makes me feel "forced" in Washington state. It might feel different to East-Coast yankees.
How are people in the us being forced to buy evs?
There are many people working very hard to come up with a replacement for lithium batteries. But if you are being honest about it how much environmental impact does oil production have compared to lithium.
All of these arguments are based upon the current tech available. If you look at how fast that tech is changing its crazy to think most of these problems won't be addressed. And they also completely ignore the issues with ice vehicles.
What countries pollute 10x more than us? Everything I can find puts us at #2
Last edited:
What about all of the aid and incentives given to the fossil fuel industry? That number is much higher than the incentives given on evs.
What legislation is there in the us to eliminate production of internal combustion engines?
It's actually the states that are setting the targets. In WA state, under the standards, zero-emission vehicles can include electric vehicles (EVs), plug-in hybrid cars and trucks, and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Promoting general welfare for anyone of a lower social economic class in yourself has been politicized. EVs are needed to reduce a climate catastrophe, that will that will disproportionately have greater impacts on poor people and populations.
Anyone near a coast that is 33 MSL or lower will be impacted by sea level rise due to global warming in 99 years or less.
www.nature.com
Imagine if horse breeders controlled 3-4% of the world’s wealth when the first ICE vehicles were being sold. They would have funded some fierce resistance.
Anyone near a coast that is 33 MSL or lower will be impacted by sea level rise due to global warming in 99 years or less.
Assessing population exposure to coastal flooding due to sea level rise - Nature Communications
The exposure of populations to sea-level rise is a leading indicator assessing the impact of future climate change on coastal regions. The authors identify three spatial zones of flooding such as mean higher water, the 100 year floodplain and the low-elevation coastal zone and show population...
www.nature.com
Imagine if horse breeders controlled 3-4% of the world’s wealth when the first ICE vehicles were being sold. They would have funded some fierce resistance.
World's Most Polluted Countries in 2023 - PM2.5 Ranking | IQAir
Find out the most polluted countries in the world in 2023. Check out which country in the world had the highest level of air pollution PM2.5. Download the IQAir AirVisual world air quality report.
www.iqair.com
- Status
Similar threads
