wilkening question

[peedenmark7]

We have an '89 wilkening "pyrotechnique " in our secondary residence that doesnt seem to be doing the job.

full masonry [inside] fireplace 12' up around the box, originally had a 15" ceramic flu coupled to roughly a 18-20' rise .
after we were told that at some point we [my parents] had a chimney fire , we opted to have a stainless 11" liner installed.
I will say that I get better draft and it doesnt take as long to get a fire going now.

however, my biggest complaint is that I cant get the room over 64 degrees.

I burn ash, hickory,and some scant maple. I can throw a ton of wood on good coals and the result is the same.

the room is 18x20 with a 22' vault with a 20x12 bedroom loft that can get up to 74 degrees at times...It takes about 2 days to get the masonry hot. [poor insulation outside?]

we run a ceiling fan continually, but I am wondering if the ancient 4 bladed fan [tight to ceiling] is too close to the ceiling to pull the heat back down...

replacing the firebox is out of the question as we'd have to destroy the masonry to replace it in its entirety. At that point I'll knock the house down and build new.

any ideas or suggestions...?

 

[dougand3]

If you can post pics of your setup and chimney - will help.

 

[pen]

Does the stove have a blower on it? If not and it's an insert there is at least part of your issue.

pen

 

[begreen]

If this is built in to a massive exterior chimney, that could be a big part of the problem. It's really hard to heat outdoors in the winter. A picture would help a lot. This design appears to be too old to show up in an online search.

 

[BrotherBart]

With that interior chimney it has to be a problem of getting the heat out of the thing into the living space. The suggestion for a picture is a good one so we can see what you are dealing with. Sounds like a metal box fireplace.

 

[peedenmark7]

I'll have to snap pics the next time I am there, but from the pics you may not gather much./

The fireplace is a convective type, no blower.[still made today] it is a huge cast iron box built into a cinder block foundation which is basically outside the house and has T-111 or fir siding on/around it. there is no masonry to see on the outside of the house, just the bump out and siding. looking at it outside ,dimensions are roughly 5' wide , 25' tall and the bump out is about 2 1/2'.

One thing I always found weird is that the mason built the Vent about 7-8' above the floor. I spoke with gary wilkening about this as we went through hell replacing the damper assy. last fall due to the soldier courses of brick we couldn't simply cut off the damper tube we had to have a guy with a plasma cutter come and cut it off from the inside then open up the hole for the new damper which the rod is about twice the diameter of the original one.

I am wondering if I should remove the corner boards and one of the siding sheets to see how well the fireplace is insulated. I would guess with it being built in '89 that whomever did the siding simply put r19 around or on it.
if thats the case and it has either settled or fallen off, what do you recommend for better insulating that run outside.

 

[BrotherBart]

Ah, OK. When you said "inside" I thought you meant the chimney too.

 

[begreen]

If they insulated the chase, that would be a plus. But still, it is going to take a ton of heat to get that mass warm. I looked at Wilkening's site and didn't find reference to the pyrotechnique. Did I just miss it or is it now called something else?

I'm wondering if an insert could be installed in this unit? If a decent sized one could be installed, it would dramatically improve the heat output.

 

[peedenmark7]

The box isnt real big...not sure if I could install an insert... was kind of hoping I could stay away from having to use electricity.

It takes about 2 days for the brick wall surrounding the box etc to really warm up. on weekends about the time we are ready to go home, its finally warming the house.
If we are up for a week at a time, and I keep up with tossing wood in, it does much better, but again for what i am burning, I am not getting the room over 66, yet the upstairs one can barely breath its so warm.

 

[begreen]

How about a freestanding stove in front of the box then?

 

[peedenmark7]

Not enough room... the hearth is about 15" off the floor, depth wouldn't allow for it.. plus that would be a bit unsightly.

My mother designed the look of the fireplace face, which is the only reason we haven't knocked the place down and started fresh...its a nice home, but has far to many dead spots to heat due to being added on to twice.

 

[begreen]

Pictures would really help.

 

[peedenmark7]

here is a pic of the fireplace.

 

[begreen]

Very nice. I can certainly see why you want to keep the nice brick work. Still, I wouldn't hesitate in removing the current hearth and rebuilding it with the same brick at floor level, with a deeper curve to accommodate a beautiful freestanding stove there. Done well it would look completely intentional and this would be a stunning stove setting. A good freestanding stove would make a world of difference heating this room.

 

[peedenmark7]

I like the idea of having a freestanding wood stove as we have a jotul firelight and a lopi berki so there would be some congruency looks wise.

What would I need to do ?
I assume we'd take the hearth out in it's entirety , re brick the floor [woulod have to do some floor cutting as there is Australian cypress wood flooring installed after the pic was taken.

I dont believe I could remove the firebox without removing brick, so would we brick over the face to eliminate the black box showing? where would we tap in the piping ?


I dont have any pics of the outside of the boxed run,again its a straight shot up... could it be better insulated without causing a fire hazard?

 

[begreen]

A Jotul F600 or a Quadrafire Isle Royale is what I was thinking for there. The firebox would be left intact and untouched. All that would be removed and rebuilt would be the hearth in front of the fireplace. Use cement board to create a level, continuous surface on which the new hearth would be laid. The hearth requirement for the Jotul is just ember protection, so you would be fine with a single layer of brick on cement board. The Isle Royale would require a layer of mineral board insulation board added, under the cement board.

Measure first and make sure this all pencils out. The F600 flue collar top is 31.5" off of the floor. In this installation it would exit out of the stove horizontally from the rear (with a slight uphill pitch) to a tee or elbow in the fireplace. The dimension we need is the height of the current hearth and the height of the fireplace opening. If the height of the current fireplace opening is under 35" from the floor then this would not work unless the hearth was tiled instead of bricked. If it does work, the doors would come off of the fireplace and a damper sealing block-off plate installed at the top of the firebox to keep heat in the house interior. The tee or elbow would connect to a new 6" liner that runs to the top of the chimney.

 

[peedenmark7]

I do believe we are under 35"... an open box , especially this old one is one my wife probably wouldnt want to look at and since the box is outside ,would seem having open doors would allow more cold in than we have now ?

 

[Todd]

How far does your hearth extend out from the fireplace? You may be able to install a Woodstock Fireview on that hearth and not even have to worry about extending the hearth since the stove is a side loader?

 

[begreen]

I do believe we are under 35"... an open box , especially this old one is one my wife probably wouldnt want to look at and since the box is outside ,would seem having open doors would allow more cold in than we have now ?

What is the actual opening height above the floor? Your wife's concern is correct. That's why I mentioned the damper seal, block-off plate. With one installed, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[peedenmark7]

I'll have to take some measurements this weekend. so the block off plate takes the place of the doors so you cant see in the box, if I am understanding this correctly ?

 

[begreen]

No, but that is another option. The block off plate goes up at the damper and is not visible. It seals off the throat of the chimney.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Why_damper_seal_is_needed/

 

[weatherguy]

never mind, missed it the first time

 

[Mt Ski Bum]

Replace it with a new High-Efficency zero-clearance fireplace... less brick work required, plus you'd get to keep the arched-door fireplace look!

 

[peedenmark7]

i kind of figured there would be a damper seal the area where the new pipe meets the throat of the chimney, but seems without some type of block off plate to close the box off, I am still heating the box that is outside , only now the cold air is radiating in unabated.

 

[begreen]

Did you check to see if the chase is insulated or not?