Will felling and leaving a tree for a couple of weeks help dry it out?

[Wet1]

After felling, bucking, and moving 2 cords of oak by myself this weekend, I was thinking there has to be a better way (cost-free) of doing things to help save my back.

I got to thinking today (this doesn't happen often), would felling the tree and leaving the branches & leafs intact for a couple of weeks draw any significant moisture out of the tree? I know a mature oak draws a lot of water out of the ground everyday, so is it safe to assume by leaving the branches/leaves on the tree and letting it sit after felling for a couple of weeks, that some of the moisture will be pulled out of the trunk to feed the leaves?

If this does work, I would think it would help expedite the seasoning process as well as make it a little easier to move. Then again, maybe this is something everyone else in the world has been doing for thousands of years and I missed the boat! Or, it very well could be a stupid hypothesis...

Any thoughts?

 

[rockreid]

you need to cut and split ASAP, especially if it is oak. No way around it.

I had a big white oak down 2 years in my backyard and finally it was cut and split this past Spring. It probably will not be seasoned enough until NEXT year looking at it right now.

 

[smokinj]

After felling, bucking, and moving 2 cords of oak by myself this weekend, I was thinking there has to be a better way (cost-free) of doing things to help save my back.

I got to thinking today (this doesn't happen often), would felling the tree and leaving the branches & leafs intact for a couple of weeks draw any significant moisture out of the tree? I know a mature oak draws a lot of water out of the ground everyday, so is it safe to assume by leaving the branches/leaves on the tree and letting it sit after felling for a couple of weeks, that some of the moisture will be pulled out of the trunk to feed the leaves?

If this does work, I would think it would help expedite the seasoning process as well as make it a little easier to move. Then again, maybe this is something everyone else in the world has been doing for thousands of years and I missed the boat! Or, it very well could be a stupid hypothesis...

Any thoughts?

if your moving rounds a hand truck can save your back

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Will it reduce the sap in the tree. Yes....some. But very little. Espeically oak, it needs lots of time to season.

In short by felling the tree and cutting it to burning length, the tree will lose much more moisture that way than by leaving it lay and waiting for the leaves to draw the sap. There are very few short cuts.

 

[Wet1]

if your moving rounds a hand truck can save your back

Still gotta get'em up in the back of the truck. I've found leaving one billet standing on end next to the tailgate makes it a little easier by going from the ground to the top of an 18" billet, and then from the billet to the tailgate... but it's still a lot of work when those suckers are over 16" in diameter! If they are over 20" in diameter, I rip a three inch cut across the face and then split it with the wedge, this makes them a lot more manageable. Tiring any way you look at it!

 

[smokinj]

if your moving rounds a hand truck can save your back

Still gotta get'em up in the back of the truck. I've found leaving one billet standing on end next to the tailgate makes it a little easier by going from the ground to the top of an 18" billet, and then from the billet to the tailgate... but it's still a lot of work when those suckers are over 16" in diameter! If they are over 20" in diameter, I rip a three inch cut across the face and then split it with the wedge, this makes them a lot more manageable. Tiring any way you look at it!

Your right Hand truck only works with low trailer

 

[hilly]

The vascular part of the tree is between the bark and the trunk, so even if you let the leaves turn brown, you are only getting rid of the small bit of moisture just below the bark.

 

[TMonter]

One of the reasons I love the PNW "softwoods", we can find standing dead trees relatively easily here and it makes getting a full cord on a truck a pretty simple task.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I girdled some trees and left them standing a year thinking they would dry some being off the ground. It worked, but they were harder to cut and the bark had separated (had some bugs). I would now rather cut and split in place.

 

[Henz]

buck/Split/dry, will season way way way faster

 

[pinewoodburner]

if your moving rounds a hand truck can save your back

Still gotta get'em up in the back of the truck. I've found leaving one billet standing on end next to the tailgate makes it a little easier by going from the ground to the top of an 18" billet, and then from the billet to the tailgate... but it's still a lot of work when those suckers are over 16" in diameter! If they are over 20" in diameter, I rip a three inch cut across the face and then split it with the wedge, this makes them a lot more manageable. Tiring any way you look at it!

Your right Hand truck only works with low trailer

I use a tri-fold ramp that is 46" in width and over 7' long with the hand truck to get those rounds into the truck. A lot easier than lifting. Jeff

 

[smokinj]

if your moving rounds a hand truck can save your back

Still gotta get'em up in the back of the truck. I've found leaving one billet standing on end next to the tailgate makes it a little easier by going from the ground to the top of an 18" billet, and then from the billet to the tailgate... but it's still a lot of work when those suckers are over 16" in diameter! If they are over 20" in diameter, I rip a three inch cut across the face and then split it with the wedge, this makes them a lot more manageable. Tiring any way you look at it!

Your right Hand truck only works with low trailer

I use a tri-fold ramp that is 46" in width and over 7' long with the hand truck to get those rounds into the truck. A lot easier than lifting. Jeff

Good thinking!

 

[Henz]

I had a guy who used a flatbed trailer. Bought one of the hand cranked loading arms/winch and mounted it on the trailer. Bought it from Harbour Freightthat worked the cats ass if you know what I mean.

 

[gpcollen1]

If you have to fell a tree and have the luxury of being able to leave it there for a while, I would Definitely let it sit there until the leaves dry up.

 

[dac122]

I guess the thinking is that the branches will act as some kind of moisture sink and pull the moisture out of the trunk? Not so sure that will work.

I think the most tried and true method will be to increase the evaporative surface area. In other words, buck and split.

 

[M1sterM]

The vascular part of the tree is between the bark and the trunk, so even if you let the leaves turn brown, you are only getting rid of the small bit of moisture just below the bark.

Sorry, I'm a biologist, so I have to set this straight. There are two sources of moisture in wood. One is the water (and minerals) in the "sap" that is found within the vascular tissue, and the second is the intracellular fluid. The thin layer beneath the bark is call phloem, and is generally only a couple millimeters thick. If you damage this all the way around, you'll kill a tree, so most people only pay attention to that part (like the quote, above). However, it only carries sugars down from the leaves to the rest of the plant. The xylem, on the other hand, is much thicker, and is beneath the phloem. It carries water and minerals from the roots to the leaves. This layer can be an inch or more thick (hence the reason you tap a sugar maple 1.5 to 2 inches deep), and depending on the thickness of the tree can hold a good proportion of water AND therefore weight. Leaving a tree to "wither" draws this fluid out very quickly.

Seasoning, on the other hand is the process of drying out all the intracellular fluid. This takes a relatively long time (rule of thumb is 1 inch of wood in diameter can lose it's intracellular moisture per year).

Leaving the tree intact with leaves for a week or two until the leaves eventually shrivel and crumble is call "withering," and that's the only way I do it. I try to plan my felling and bucking so that I cut trees down that I can leave for a week or two. To some people, taking 5 pounds or so from a 40+ pound round isn't a big deal, but since I do most my work by hand/wheelbarrow, it makes a huge difference for me. Those few pounds per round really add up by the end of the season!

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Since the wood will lose more water when wetter- will it lose more by withering in the first 2 weeks, or by splitting and throwing it in a pile right there (no moving really yet)?

 

[Wet1]

The vascular part of the tree is between the bark and the trunk, so even if you let the leaves turn brown, you are only getting rid of the small bit of moisture just below the bark.

Sorry, I'm a biologist, so I have to set this straight. There are two sources of moisture in wood. One is the water (and minerals) in the "sap" that is found within the vascular tissue, and the second is the intracellular fluid. The thin layer beneath the bark is call phloem, and is generally only a couple millimeters thick. If you damage this all the way around, you'll kill a tree, so most people only pay attention to that part (like the quote, above). However, it only carries sugars down from the leaves to the rest of the plant. The xylem, on the other hand, is much thicker, and is beneath the phloem. It carries water and minerals from the roots to the leaves. This layer can be an inch or more thick (hence the reason you tap a sugar maple 1.5 to 2 inches deep), and depending on the thickness of the tree can hold a good proportion of water AND therefore weight. Leaving a tree to "wither" draws this fluid out very quickly.

Seasoning, on the other hand is the process of drying out all the intracellular fluid. This takes a relatively long time (rule of thumb is 1 inch of wood in diameter can lose it's intracellular moisture per year).

Leaving the tree intact with leaves for a week or two until the leaves eventually shrivel and crumble is call "withering," and that's the only way I do it. I try to plan my felling and bucking so that I cut trees down that I can leave for a week or two. To some people, taking 5 pounds or so from a 40+ pound round isn't a big deal, but since I do most my work by hand/wheelbarrow, it makes a huge difference for me. Those few pounds per round really add up by the end of the season!

Thank you for the insight!

I'm taking out about 6 to 10 more trees and I have a couple of months to do it. I have a trailer as well, but I can't get it in there because of the terrain. I've been dropping and bucking the trees the same day to keep things neat, but if this actually makes a significant difference, I'll drop a few at a time and get back to them in a couple of weeks. I know the wood is not going to dry out over night by doing it this way, but if it reduces a billet from say 250 lbs down to 235 lbs, I'd be all for it! I thought about felling/bucking them and letting them sit a while, but history has proven they tend to grow legs if they're bucked and sitting.

Looks like I might drop several this weekend...

 

[dac122]

Sorry, I'm a biologist, so I have to set this straight. There are two sources of moisture in wood. One is the water (and minerals) in the "sap" that is found within the vascular tissue, and the second is the intracellular fluid. The thin layer beneath the bark is call phloem, and is generally only a couple millimeters thick. If you damage this all the way around, you'll kill a tree, so most people only pay attention to that part (like the quote, above). However, it only carries sugars down from the leaves to the rest of the plant. The xylem, on the other hand, is much thicker, and is beneath the phloem. It carries water and minerals from the roots to the leaves. This layer can be an inch or more thick (hence the reason you tap a sugar maple 1.5 to 2 inches deep), and depending on the thickness of the tree can hold a good proportion of water AND therefore weight. Leaving a tree to "wither" draws this fluid out very quickly.

Seasoning, on the other hand is the process of drying out all the intracellular fluid. This takes a relatively long time (rule of thumb is 1 inch of wood in diameter can lose it's intracellular moisture per year).

Leaving the tree intact with leaves for a week or two until the leaves eventually shrivel and crumble is call "withering," and that's the only way I do it. I try to plan my felling and bucking so that I cut trees down that I can leave for a week or two. To some people, taking 5 pounds or so from a 40+ pound round isn't a big deal, but since I do most my work by hand/wheelbarrow, it makes a huge difference for me. Those few pounds per round really add up by the end of the season!

Cool! I'd take back my previous post (if I could). Am I correct in assuming this will work with just about any tree? What about pines?

I'll take any free work I can get.

 

[Wet1]

Since the wood will lose more water when wetter- will it lose more by withering in the first 2 weeks, or by splitting and throwing it in a pile right there (no moving really yet)?

Since it takes no extra effort to let the tree wither, I would think that would be the most logical approach since your other option requires an extra step and more work.

Wood is heavy enough, I try to minimizing its movement as much as possible.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Since the wood will lose more water when wetter- will it lose more by withering in the first 2 weeks, or by splitting and throwing it in a pile right there (no moving really yet)?

Since it takes no extra effort to let the tree wither, I would think that would be the most logical approach since your other option requires an extra step and more work.

Wood is heavy enough, I try to minimizing its movement as much as possible.

What extra step and work? You'll have to split it anyway no matter how long it sits there.

 

[Wet1]

Since the wood will lose more water when wetter- will it lose more by withering in the first 2 weeks, or by splitting and throwing it in a pile right there (no moving really yet)?

Since it takes no extra effort to let the tree wither, I would think that would be the most logical approach since your other option requires an extra step and more work.

Wood is heavy enough, I try to minimizing its movement as much as possible.

What extra step and work? You'll have to split it anyway no matter how long it sits there.

I don't split on site, I guess I was assuming you were moving the wood an extra time in the splitting/pile process. Also keep in mind the wood doesn't dry all that well when it's thrown in a pile.

Either way, it makes more sense to me to let nature take its course by letting the tree wither since it requires no extra work.

 

[M1sterM]

Sorry, I'm a biologist, so I have to set this straight. There are two sources of moisture in wood. One is the water (and minerals) in the "sap" that is found within the vascular tissue, and the second is the intracellular fluid. The thin layer beneath the bark is call phloem, and is generally only a couple millimeters thick. If you damage this all the way around, you'll kill a tree, so most people only pay attention to that part (like the quote, above). However, it only carries sugars down from the leaves to the rest of the plant. The xylem, on the other hand, is much thicker, and is beneath the phloem. It carries water and minerals from the roots to the leaves. This layer can be an inch or more thick (hence the reason you tap a sugar maple 1.5 to 2 inches deep), and depending on the thickness of the tree can hold a good proportion of water AND therefore weight. Leaving a tree to "wither" draws this fluid out very quickly.

Seasoning, on the other hand is the process of drying out all the intracellular fluid. This takes a relatively long time (rule of thumb is 1 inch of wood in diameter can lose it's intracellular moisture per year).

Leaving the tree intact with leaves for a week or two until the leaves eventually shrivel and crumble is call "withering," and that's the only way I do it. I try to plan my felling and bucking so that I cut trees down that I can leave for a week or two. To some people, taking 5 pounds or so from a 40+ pound round isn't a big deal, but since I do most my work by hand/wheelbarrow, it makes a huge difference for me. Those few pounds per round really add up by the end of the season!

Cool! I'd take back my previous post (if I could). Am I correct in assuming this will work with just about any tree? What about pines?

I'll take any free work I can get.

Now that's a good question...due to adaptations within the leaves (i.e. needles) most pines and conifers do fantastically well at keeping fluid during hard times (both hot and cold) and that's why we call them evergreens. The waxy coating on the needles really helps to reduce fluid loss through the leaves when the stomata.pores close off during a drought (which is what the tree thinks is goind on when you cut it down). I've cut white pines for Christmas trees that keep their needles well into the next summer, but some spruces and firs are dropping most of their needles by New Year's day. So, the short answer is it depends on the species, and probably works least well with pines. Just cutting them to length and letting the sap ooze out is probably the most effective technique.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Ya, we each go with our own experience. For instance- 99% of my wood gathering is in my yard, so I have a bit more freedom in leaving things and dragging splitters etc.

 

[Apprentice_GM]

Scientific studies have shown felling a tree and leaving the branches and foliage on it draws over 10% of moisture (extra-cellular not intra-cellular) out in the first week to fortnight. The rate then drops dramatically.

In Australia's hot and dry climate our gum trees (eucalypts eg bluegums, redgums and that bloody ironbark) dry out at least 10% in the first week if felled in summer and they are hot and windy days (typical aussie summer days).

I found a reference to this for you North Americans in a Forest Service publication from the US Department of Agriculture (Pacific Northwest Research Station) - Research Note PNW-RN-450 August 1986 titled "Drying Firewood in a Temporary Solar Kiln: A Case Study" which I have saved on my PC as an adobe document called "Solar kilns for firewood seasoning.pdf" but I don't know if that was the online filename or I changed it to something meaningful for me. It argues solar kilns are not worth the effort, but there is a reference in the last paragraph which I'll excerpt below:

"Where wood is to be hauled a long distance before cutting to length, transport costs might be reduced by letting the trees dry before they are limbed and bucked. A study of moisture loss from felled eastern hardwoods showed that felling the trees and leaving the crowns intact resulted in a 5- to 10-percent reduction of moisture content in less than 7 days (Garrett 1983)."

So my suggestion is if you can, fell the tree and leave the foliage for a couple of weeks, then limb, buck and split. It gives you a head start in the seasoning aspects. Until this thread I didn't know that this process was called "withering", always good to learn things on this forum.

I have also found, but this is personal and anecdotal (so can't back up with a published science paper), that sometimes our aussie hardwoods don't split well when green in my low powered electric splitter, but withering for a week or two, or leaving the rounds for a couple of months, allows better splitting.