Wilo event
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BoilerMan
Minister of Fire
That is crazy. For you to have power that bad, I'd be some squeaky wheel to the utility. As an electrician, that is not right. Suspect neutral, buried service even more so. If neighbors all experience same thing, and are not connected to same can on pole. You have some serious voltage variations which are indicitave of low high-tension line voltage and high line amperage/ undersized high tension line on poles. 4160V is the older standard and at the end of the line there can be a lot of voltage variation due to line losses, upping the voltage resulting in lower line current should help eliminate the problem.
All of this of course, is the utility's doing and would require them to actually spend time and money on something. As long as you and your neighbors are paying customers they have nothing to worry about............
TS
All of this of course, is the utility's doing and would require them to actually spend time and money on something. As long as you and your neighbors are paying customers they have nothing to worry about............
TS
heaterman
Minister of Fire
Scott.....If I were in your shoes, I would ask the utility to put a power monitor on your line and record what is actually happening. If they will not do that I would get one myself and record a couple weeks of data. If it shows spikes/dips I would get in touch with one of their engineers and show it to him.
If that fails, move up the "food chain" and go to your state representative or public service commission and make some noise.
My brothers in the family store had to do that this past summer......ongoing voltage problems burning out motors and VS drives on fans, compressors, refrigeration equipment. Last summer they replaced 3 25Ton compressors on the low temp refrigeration rack. The power company maintained they juice was within normal parameters but we knew it was not.
We hooked up a chart recorder to each leg of the 3 phase and recorded a months worth of data which showed crazy swings in power. Contacted our state rep and arranged a meeting with the local and regional engineer from the power company....Long story short, they just set new poles and some humongous transformers a couple weeks ago and are in the process of running new lines into the service entrance as we speak.
You can get them to do something if you kick some sand in their face.
If that fails, move up the "food chain" and go to your state representative or public service commission and make some noise.
My brothers in the family store had to do that this past summer......ongoing voltage problems burning out motors and VS drives on fans, compressors, refrigeration equipment. Last summer they replaced 3 25Ton compressors on the low temp refrigeration rack. The power company maintained they juice was within normal parameters but we knew it was not.
We hooked up a chart recorder to each leg of the 3 phase and recorded a months worth of data which showed crazy swings in power. Contacted our state rep and arranged a meeting with the local and regional engineer from the power company....Long story short, they just set new poles and some humongous transformers a couple weeks ago and are in the process of running new lines into the service entrance as we speak.
You can get them to do something if you kick some sand in their face.
Great info guys, thank you.
I have called the power company about 5 times, they have created an event log....what ever that means other than no one doing nothing never.
I will try again with your approach, but at least for the time being, the conditioner is working. Last night while loading the boiler, I heard it click and voila...overage...measured it at 130v and it stayed like that for at least 40 minutes.
Thanks again guys
Scott
I have called the power company about 5 times, they have created an event log....what ever that means other than no one doing nothing never.
I will try again with your approach, but at least for the time being, the conditioner is working. Last night while loading the boiler, I heard it click and voila...overage...measured it at 130v and it stayed like that for at least 40 minutes.
Thanks again guys
Scott
Hey SK. With the power company, sometimes the wording of the complaint makes a difference. You want to fall into the area that they are regulated by the DPUC and legally obligated to provide. In this area, you would want to file a "voltage complaint", which begins a process that can sometimes takes years to resolve, depending on how much work the utility has to do to meet their legal obligations and resolve the problem.
Have not read the entire thread, but you would have two choices to stabilize the voltage yourself, a UPS and a ferro resonant line conditioner. For small loads, a Sola ferro resonant line conditioner is basically bulletproof, inexpensive, and does not have the battery maintenance issues of a UPS. You should be able to get a small 240v unit if you want to put the Froling on it also. Just add up the full load wattage of the circs, boiler, and controls, and size it at 125%.
Have not read the entire thread, but you would have two choices to stabilize the voltage yourself, a UPS and a ferro resonant line conditioner. For small loads, a Sola ferro resonant line conditioner is basically bulletproof, inexpensive, and does not have the battery maintenance issues of a UPS. You should be able to get a small 240v unit if you want to put the Froling on it also. Just add up the full load wattage of the circs, boiler, and controls, and size it at 125%.
heaterman
Minister of Fire
Scott.....Just curious if anything has been resolved on this yet?
I attended another meeting with the local and regional engineers from the power company along with my brothers a while back. They were explaining some of the issues they are up against out here in the farm land and wilds of Northern Michigan. It was pretty interesting.
A couple things are happening here in the region that are turning the power supply situation on its head.
Number 1 is that oil companies are calling them up and demanding service out in the middle of no where to run their fracking pumps. These things are often miles from any power line and from what the engineers said the load is equivalent to between 300-500HP per site
. Their construction crews are maxed out and they are bringing in subcontractors from all over to get lines run. This often entails going all the way back to the power source or generating station because the local 13,000V lines will not carry enough current. New poles and new lines for miles and miles.
Number 2 is that in some locations they don't have enough generating capacity in the first place even if they get the new lines run. They are purchasing natural gas fired turbine driven generators in the megawatt output range left and right in order to meet demand. Kinda scary when you think about what that could do to the price of natural gas.......
To compound the problem, nearly all the farmers around here are installing center pivot irrigation systems on their fields in order to maximize production without having to buy more land. Those 10"-14" wells usually have a pump hanging in them of 100 to 200HP. I'd say right in our township alone(36 sq miles) there are at least 8 of these in the last 2 years. All of them requiring 3 phase power that wasn't even on the radar back when the original power lines were run to some of these locations. So multiply that by a hundred or so other townships in the same boat and you have a mighty serious increase in transmission capability and overall demand.
I'd dare bet that many areas of our country are in or will be in the same boat as more of this type of use comes on line.
A power conditioner is something that I will be adding to all my quotes this year because of those facts....going to have to be standard equipment for anything with VFD or electronics in it.
I attended another meeting with the local and regional engineers from the power company along with my brothers a while back. They were explaining some of the issues they are up against out here in the farm land and wilds of Northern Michigan. It was pretty interesting.
A couple things are happening here in the region that are turning the power supply situation on its head.
Number 1 is that oil companies are calling them up and demanding service out in the middle of no where to run their fracking pumps. These things are often miles from any power line and from what the engineers said the load is equivalent to between 300-500HP per site
. Their construction crews are maxed out and they are bringing in subcontractors from all over to get lines run. This often entails going all the way back to the power source or generating station because the local 13,000V lines will not carry enough current. New poles and new lines for miles and miles.Number 2 is that in some locations they don't have enough generating capacity in the first place even if they get the new lines run. They are purchasing natural gas fired turbine driven generators in the megawatt output range left and right in order to meet demand. Kinda scary when you think about what that could do to the price of natural gas.......
To compound the problem, nearly all the farmers around here are installing center pivot irrigation systems on their fields in order to maximize production without having to buy more land. Those 10"-14" wells usually have a pump hanging in them of 100 to 200HP. I'd say right in our township alone(36 sq miles) there are at least 8 of these in the last 2 years. All of them requiring 3 phase power that wasn't even on the radar back when the original power lines were run to some of these locations. So multiply that by a hundred or so other townships in the same boat and you have a mighty serious increase in transmission capability and overall demand.
I'd dare bet that many areas of our country are in or will be in the same boat as more of this type of use comes on line.
A power conditioner is something that I will be adding to all my quotes this year because of those facts....going to have to be standard equipment for anything with VFD or electronics in it.
Scott.....Just curious if anything has been resolved on this yet?
I attended another meeting with the local and regional engineers from the power company along with my brothers a while back. They were explaining some of the issues they are up against out here in the farm land and wilds of Northern Michigan. It was pretty interesting.
A couple things are happening here in the region that are turning the power supply situation on its head.
Number 1 is that oil companies are calling them up and demanding service out in the middle of no where to run their fracking pumps. These things are often miles from any power line and from what the engineers said the load is equivalent to between 300-500HP per site
Number 2 is that in some locations they don't have enough generating capacity in the first place even if they get the new lines run. They are purchasing natural gas fired turbine driven generators in the megawatt output range left and right in order to meet demand. Kinda scary when you think about what that could do to the price of natural gas.......
To compound the problem, nearly all the farmers around here are installing center pivot irrigation systems on their fields in order to maximize production without having to buy more land. Those 10"-14" wells usually have a pump hanging in them of 100 to 200HP. I'd say right in our township alone(36 sq miles) there are at least 8 of these in the last 2 years. All of them requiring 3 phase power that wasn't even on the radar back when the original power lines were run to some of these locations. So multiply that by a hundred or so other townships in the same boat and you have a mighty serious increase in transmission capability and overall demand.
I'd dare bet that many areas of our country are in or will be in the same boat as more of this type of use comes on line.
A power conditioner is something that I will be adding to all my quotes this year because of those facts....going to have to be standard equipment for anything with VFD or electronics in it.
Aaaaa fracking issues.....power being one of them...not too mention the diesel prices and their causal effect....
On this end...all great, the conditioner has worked flawlessly throughout the many voltage variations, which magically stopped after a major widespread power outage lasting 12 hours in NEPA. After that..the conditioner has been laying very steady and voltage readings have stabilized to 121 or so. A far cry better than the mid 130s I was seeing for months. Power company was at a loss....always saying power is ok at their end....something wrong in my house...yeah sure.
I guess the last 6 weeks my house got rewired...and all the neighbors' houses and my office down the road as well, since we have no more problems with flickering lights..and UBSs clicking on and off like they are on speed.
The network here is overloaded, the Tree guys are running amok repairing downed trees on lines...but like they told me...we leave some on the lines.....need the O.T. at 2:00am....
Full go on the power conditioner for the entire boiler room...pumps and logic controllers.
Good luck Steve..
Scott
huffdawg
Minister of Fire
Scott.....Just curious if anything has been resolved on this yet?
I attended another meeting with the local and regional engineers from the power company along with my brothers a while back. They were explaining some of the issues they are up against out here in the farm land and wilds of Northern Michigan. It was pretty interesting.
A couple things are happening here in the region that are turning the power supply situation on its head.
Number 1 is that oil companies are calling them up and demanding service out in the middle of no where to run their fracking pumps. These things are often miles from any power line and from what the engineers said the load is equivalent to between 300-500HP per site
Number 2 is that in some locations they don't have enough generating capacity in the first place even if they get the new lines run. They are purchasing natural gas fired turbine driven generators in the megawatt output range left and right in order to meet demand. Kinda scary when you think about what that could do to the price of natural gas.......
To compound the problem, nearly all the farmers around here are installing center pivot irrigation systems on their fields in order to maximize production without having to buy more land. Those 10"-14" wells usually have a pump hanging in them of 100 to 200HP. I'd say right in our township alone(36 sq miles) there are at least 8 of these in the last 2 years. All of them requiring 3 phase power that wasn't even on the radar back when the original power lines were run to some of these locations. So multiply that by a hundred or so other townships in the same boat and you have a mighty serious increase in transmission capability and overall demand.
I'd dare bet that many areas of our country are in or will be in the same boat as more of this type of use comes on line.
A power conditioner is something that I will be adding to all my quotes this year because of those facts....going to have to be standard equipment for anything with VFD or electronics in it.
Might as well install water purification systems while your at it, with all that fracking going on .
No help there....the stuff in the cocktails eat the filters for breakfast, then they eat organs
huffdawg
Minister of Fire
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