Wood burner wanna be

[b33p3r]

I WILL be putting in a wood boiler this year. Like others researching which boiler to choose I'm having a hard time deciding. I'm really interested in the gasification boilers, Econoburn or Eko mostly. Really like the Garn setup but $$$ keeps me focused on the Econoburn/Eko.
Also looking at non gasification boilers, woodmaster,Heatmor... I guess I'll be able to make my mind up alot quicker if I understand the setups better!
I currently have an oiled fired boiler which also supplies my DHW. Originally I figured I could pipe an OWB to supplement my existing boiler, thus providing heat and DHW. If the fire went out, the existing boiler would just do its usual job without help from the OWB. From everything I've been reading, I guess its not going to be this simple?
My original plan was to run an OWB during the heating months (Oct/Nov-March/April), basically when the windows were closed in the house. Non heating months, shut down the OWB and its oil business as usual. ALong comes cleaner gasification units and maybe I can supply DHW all year long?
But I will need to add water storage for my DHW? More equipment more money etc etc.

So a couple of direct questions: 1. How much water storage would I need to get the most efficiency from a gasification boiler?
2. Can I run a gasification boiler without water storage and still be more efficient than a non gasification boiler(at least until water storage is more affordable to me)?
3. Assuming I use some water storage, Is it possible to install a constanly circulating dedicated loop off my existing boiler, through a heat exchanger or side arm attached to the water storage fed by the Gasification unit, thus keeping my existing boiler in control of everything, but the OWB could still supply me Heating/DHW when needed? I guess what I have stuck in my head is I could use the OWB to keep the existing oil burner at temp for heat and dhw. I'm not a plumber by any means so I don't fully understand boiler functionality 100%. So if you more knowledgable people could steer me in the right direction I would appreciate it!

 

[stee6043]

Here is a quick reply to some of your questions. And welcome to the board.

-If plumbed correctly with the proper controls you can heat your house and DHW as described above. Many people do it this way.
-Heating DHW in the summer with a wood burner without storage would be less efficient and in my opinion not worth it. With storage, maybe worth it. I personally would never consider running my wood burner in the summer only because my house gets hot. No reason to have to spend more money on air conditioning because I have 1,000 gallons of hot water in the basement.

1.) Amount of storage depends on a couple of factors. Many folks will tell you 800-1,000 gallons is the bare minimum useful amount. The total will depend mostly on your heat load and the lowest useable temperature your system can tolerate.
2.) A gasser with no storage will be conisderably more efficient than a traditional OWB.
3.) Yes, depedning on how much money you want to spend on controls, anything is possible.

 

[b33p3r]

stee6043, Thank you for the reply. That helps a lot. I notice you have an Eko 40. How do you like it? Pros and cons? If anyone else has input, good or bad, about Eko's or Econoburns I'm all ears.

 

[stee6043]

I love my EKO 40, b33. As long as you have access to good, dry wood these things are a dream to run. Regardless of the boiler you choose I recommend taking your time on the install and doing it yourself. A well thought out system (lots of reading here) will ultimately save you time, wood and maybe even some money.

The only "con" I had with my boiler was the upper door seal. The new EKO's do not come with the kind of seal mine came with so I don't see this as a problem anymore. For me it was a $40 fix the second year of burning and I've been good to go since.

 

[muncybob]

stee6043, Thank you for the reply. That helps a lot. I notice you have an Eko 40. How do you like it? Pros and cons? If anyone else has input, good or bad, about Eko's or Econoburns I'm all ears.

Where in NE PA are you?? Have you seen any gassers in person? Although not one of the brands you mentioned...if you are ever in the Williamsport area let me know and you can see the Wood Gun, but you won't see it running until at least October!
The brands you mentioned are good ones indeed and were on my "short list" when shopping. I also started on this adventure with the possibility of an OWB but this forum and other searching quickly led me to a gasser. I don't have storage at this time and if the 1st year use is an indication of future results I don't think I'll be adding storage...although it would be nice for DHW in non heating weeks.

 

[b33p3r]

I appreciate all of the advice. Rained yesterday so I spent the better part of the day reading through this forum. Amazing amount of information.
I live just outside Scranton in a rural area. Williamsport is definately a can do and I will take a look at a wood gun. I'm staying open minded to everything at this point. In the end, I want a system that fits me.
Lot of work for me this year. Along with a Gasser/OWB I'll be tying in Radiant flooring I have in place under75% of my Ranch's main floor. Basement has functioning Radiant floor for 5-6 years now. Love that heat!
I plan on doing the work myself, but may need to enlist the services of a contractor I know to deal with the pressurized system. I'm not afraid of plumbing, but I realize the dangers of pressurized boilers and would feel more comfortable making sure it's safe. Or if it's not too bad maybe I can drive some of the experts here nuts with questions and do it myself.
Again thanks for the responses they are helping me make a decision more than you know.

 

[b33p3r]

I forgot to ask. Would you know what the ballpark costs are for purchasing the Eko or wood gun these days? Feel free to email me with prices if you prefer. I haven't seen much about prices on the forum so I don't know if it's good etiquette not to ask? I've emailed an Eko dealer but haven't received a response as of yet.

 

[Medman]

I purchased my EKO 25 two years ago for about $7000, including the basic setup of Taco circ, air scoop, exp. tank, etc. I spent at least another $5000 on pex and insulation for the lines (140' to house), fittings, pumps, water-to-air heat exchanger, etc. Your costs may be lower since you already have a boiler installed.
Look at the "simplest pressurized system" sticky at the top of this forum; it is probably the best implementation for an existing boiler with an add-on wood boiler.
Feel free to ask the questions - people here are glad to help, especially if you have taken the time to research your intended system. I have been at this for two years and I learn new things here weekly.
I got here because I was looking at ground source geothermal but the cost was too high; the sales guy said I should look into OWB instead since I was already burning wood. He recommended Heatmor, but it didn't take me long to figure out that I would be into 15 full cord a year to satisfy my heat load with the non-gasser boilers. I currently burn 6 full cord a year and I am very happy with the EKO's performance. That being said, if I had to do it over again I would get a Garn. By the time you add up all the costs the Garn is not that much more to pay for a complete and proven solution.

Happy reading!


Ryan

 

[muncybob]

With the WG there are 2 options....steell and stainless steel. I went with SS based on suggestions from some former and current WG owners. It's also going to depend on the size...mine is the smallest and also came with the oil burner back up and a cycle timer. I think that set me back around $11k...you can knock off about $2k if no need for the oil back up & timer and even more if you don't go with SS. But, give them a call for current pricing. Good luck...learning about these things and pricing them is a real adventure! BTW, we use to live in Duryea...fairly close to you!

 

[Der Fuirmeister]

b33, Read and learn. And ask lots of questions. Make sure the unit you get qualifies for the $1500 tax deduction.

 

[Kemer]

B33,I live just south of Wilkes Barre Pa. I had a eko and sold it to go with a garn 1500.It will be delivered mid July.I used the eko to test the waters and see if I liked burning wood .Only time will tell if I made the right decision.
The Eko is a good unit but I would advise having storage.After crunching the numbers I decided on the Garn.It seems the most common phrase here is "If I had the money I would of have gone with a Garn.

 

[stee6043]

B33,I live just south of Wilkes Barre Pa. I had a eko and sold it to go with a garn 1500.It will be delivered mid July.I used the eko to test the waters and see if I liked burning wood .Only time will tell if I made the right decision.
The Eko is a good unit but I would advise having storage.After crunching the numbers I decided on the Garn.It seems the most common phrase here is "If I had the money I would of have gone with a Garn.

I'll add to this and suggest that the line usually goes "if I had the money and the SPACE I would have gone with a Garn".

There was absolutely no chance a Garn was fitting in my basement. From a logistics standpoint an EKO with separate storage tanks is much, much easier to move around and arrange in a limited space environment (ie. most basements that don't have overhead door access). While the Garn seems to be unbeatable for a "all-in-one" solution, it can't touch EKO, Tarm, etc from a "I just want to add a wood burner to my existing furnace in the basement without tearing out walls, lowering the floor, renting a crane, pouring footings, affecting the tilt of the county I live in" point of view...ha.

 

[Kemer]

That is true. I have the perfect plase for a garn.If I had to build a garn barn it might of have changed my mind

 

[b33p3r]

Well I picked up an Econoburn-150 last week. Couldn't pass it up. $5500 including taxes and a 3.5 hour drive(7 roundtrip) cost another $80.00 so for $5580.00 ......
Looking forward to getting it up and running. Have to build a shed first! I'll probably have to buy some seasoned wood for this first season. I only have 1-2 cord seasoned right now and nothing else will dry before winter. For the guys in N.E.Pa, or anyone with similiar seasons, can you give me a guestimate of what I should have on hand for the winter? Don't want to buy more than I really need to.
Thanks, Beeper

 

[muncybob]

I used up around 4 to 4.5 cords burning from mid October until mid April. Keep in mind apprx. 50% of this was less than fully seasoned wood and my 1st yr burning.....and last winter temps were not that cold for us.

 

[b33p3r]

Thanks MuncyBob. I was guessing around 5 cord from manufacturer info I read about gasifiers, but I prefer hearing it from someone that is actually burning one in the same area. By the way, is your WG backing up another boiler by chance or is it your main heat source. I have an oil boiler that supplies my heat and DHW and I'm now looking to find out the best way for me to tie in the Econo to help it. Any thoughts? Maybe you can fill me in on your install and give me any pros or cons after your first season?
I'm sure I'll have a ton of questions in the next 2 months(hope to be burning by October) so if I start driving you nuts just let me know and I'll back off.
Oh by the way, I lived in West Pittston and worked in Pittston at the local Burger King for 7 years. Knew a few people from Duryea. Transferred to mount pocono after that and ended up here in N.Pocono. Had to get out of the City/burbs.

 

[muncybob]

BK was the "hang out" when I was in High School...but, that was many moons ago!

My boiler is oil/wood combo so can't help you with the back up boiler part but there are many threads of info here on that subject and just ask as there are also many experienced people here that can help you out.

 

[b33p3r]

Yeh, I worked at BK from 82-89(?) Many moons for me also. Thanks for all your help and info!

 

[Kemer]

b33p3r I own a topsoil pit by the 8th street bridge

 

[b33p3r]

Kemer, Where at? on the plains side? Did most of my partying in Exeter. Mostly the VFW on Susquehanna Ave and my buddies speak easy. Built a house in N.Pocono and don't see too much of anyone down that way anymore. I'm sure we know a few common friends. Married a girl from Pittston.
How bout your Eko? Liking it? How much wood did you burn this past season? Tell me about your hook up. Eko the primary or backing up oil/propane/ etc etc.
I'd look you up for topsoil when I need it but I think the delivery charges would kill me! LOL

 

[Kemer]

I live in Mountain top.My pit is on the flats by fourth st.(west side)I sold my eko and I am waiting for my 1500 Garn to be delivered.I used about 6 cord in my eko but I think I,ll do better with the Garn.I have it set up that if fire goes out my oil HW boiler kicks on unless it is above 40 then my heat pump kicks on.