I live in central NC and am thinking about pulling the trigger on a BK, but the install cost is around 8k before credit. I currently have heat pump / propane for heat. Aside from the work in gathering/splitting/loading, is there much of a financial benefit to burning wood? What would be an expected payback period? I could probably harvest about a cord from the property every year and buy the rest. Any insight would be appreciated.
Wood burning insert in NC, is it worth it?
- Thread starter LakeFall
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Do you have the room to always have 2 years worth of wood on your property? Don't expect any wood you buy to be ready to burn the same year.
Why do you want a stove? Home heating, aesthetics, cooking or something to fidget with?
50 doesn’t seem cold, but everyone feels the cold differently.
50 doesn’t seem cold, but everyone feels the cold differently.
DuaeGuttae
Minister of Fire
I think you looked up the average HIGH by mistake, not the average LOW.
Raleigh Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (North Carolina, United States) - Weather Spark
In Raleigh, the summers are hot and muggy, the winters are short and very cold, and it is wet and partly cloudy year round. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 33°F to 89°F and is rarely below 20°F or above 95°F.
weatherspark.com
A wood insert has been worth it to us both in Virginia and in Texas. We were not, however, buying wood every year. We also really enjoy the cutting and splitting process.
fvhowler
Burning Hunk
I live about 30 miles south of you and burn wood for heat. We built a house and included a free standing wood stove in the design. Everyone has their own reasons to burn and how much they burn. I enjoy all the tasks associated with burning and saving on the winter electric bill is a bonus. It gets cold in NC but it does not last. I run the stove 24/7 about mid December to end of February.
I don't think you'll regret getting an insert. Also consider all the other benefits: being outdoors, getting exercise, having heat when the power goes out, and to me...happiness is a dried stack of firewood. One more thing, your neighbors may think you're crazy.
I don't think you'll regret getting an insert. Also consider all the other benefits: being outdoors, getting exercise, having heat when the power goes out, and to me...happiness is a dried stack of firewood. One more thing, your neighbors may think you're crazy.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
I did the math. Payback is long. Like 20 years. Unless Duke gets it’s way with rate increases. It’s not the only thing to consider. Heat during a power outage (like Christmas Day last year) is worth something.
I install My own insert, Drolet 1800i for about 2500$. (It was my second wood stove with a really long ROI. But it was cheaper than a mini split.
Honestly I’d consider solar, insulation improvements, whole house dehumidifier, or HVAC efficiency upgrades first. Then I’d you still want think it’s a good idea get the insert. I love burning all winter. Heatpump only runs if it’s warmer that 45-50 outside. I have too many axes, and firewood accessories now. 3 chain saws and never miss an upper when I see a tree service in whr neighborhood to ask for free wood.
Oak takes 3 years to dry here at the coast. Pine dries in one summer. Dry wood matters more than you can possibly imagine right now.
I install My own insert, Drolet 1800i for about 2500$. (It was my second wood stove with a really long ROI. But it was cheaper than a mini split.
Honestly I’d consider solar, insulation improvements, whole house dehumidifier, or HVAC efficiency upgrades first. Then I’d you still want think it’s a good idea get the insert. I love burning all winter. Heatpump only runs if it’s warmer that 45-50 outside. I have too many axes, and firewood accessories now. 3 chain saws and never miss an upper when I see a tree service in whr neighborhood to ask for free wood.
Oak takes 3 years to dry here at the coast. Pine dries in one summer. Dry wood matters more than you can possibly imagine right now.
Thank you for all your input. To answer the first post, the only months averaging below 50 are Dec, Jan, and Feb- which leads me to my next question: when is it too warm to burn? I do like the idea of "energy independence" when it comes to heat so maybe that is the justification im looking for to follow through on this project
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
When your house get too hot
This depends on your heatpump. What temp you like your house at. Cost of wood. Ect.
My heatpump does great down to 45. Pay attention to what outside conditions are when your heatpump goes into defrost. There are formulas that figure out crossover temp heatpump to propane. Same could be done for wood.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
If seriously consider an insert for this you need a at least full 4x4x8 cord of pine or poplar stacked by the end of the month in the sun and top covered to keep the rain off. Otherwise you will need to rely on bio bricks (compressed sawdust products) which completely negates any cost savings down here.
It also depends on the stove size/room size!When your house get too hot
This depends on your heatpump. What temp you like your house at. Cost of wood. Ect.
My heatpump does great down to 45. Pay attention to what outside conditions are when your heatpump goes into defrost. There are formulas that figure out crossover temp heatpump to propane. Same could be done for wood.
Pine and poplar? I thought those were no-no's for insert burning? I have much to learn from this forum
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
Our southern yellow pine is pretty good as far as btu content. Poplar isn’t that great but dries fast. Both can dry in a summer.
I paid top dollar for my first cord of seasoned ready to burn hardwood. It was way to wet. First winter was a real disappointment. Wife was questioning why I couldn’t make fire in a new wood stove. Now I have a 2-3 year supply of dry wood. Half pine. To make the money work I burn anything that’s free.
At your climate there is no financial benefit especially if you buy wood. First thing is you are not going to buy wood now that you could burn this year, especially where you are at. You would be buying green wood that will not be ready for a year or 2. If you cut/gather your own do you have the equipment and storage space? Have you ever heated with wood and know the work and dirt associated with it?
They are perfectly fine to burn as long as the moisture content is below 20%. This will take approximately a year after it is split and stacked in your environment. Hardwoods can take 1-3 years to dry. Dry wood is the #1 most important factor in heating with wood. With wet wood the heat is used to boil water, not heat your house. Wet wood also creates a lot more creosote which is what leads to chimney fires. Most everybody selling wood will tell you their wood is seasoned, but it is rare that the wood they sell is dry. If you buy wood expect it to have to sit for a year to dry.
If the chimney is on the short side, then above 50º the draft may be weak. This can cause balky starts and smoke roll out when the stove door is opened. Also, if you are buying wood, it may be cheaper to run the heatpump until it gets colder.
DuaeGuttae
Minister of Fire
I do think that spending money first on insulation and air sealing first will be more “worth it” than a stove insert, but that is true for anyone, not just someone in a moderately mild winter climate. We insulated and air sealed both homes where we lived prior to any fireplace upgrades.
Another question to consider is whether you are happy with the level to which you heat with your current heating setup. When we installed an insert into the finished walkout basement of our Virginia home, it was because it was unpleasantly cool down there when the upstairs thermostat was set to sixty-eight, which was as high as we set it. The basement became everybody’s favorite place to be at that point during winter.
In Texas with a much warmer winter climate we found ourselves very cold in our house because it was set up to be air conditioned more than heated. It was built on an uninsulated slab with ceramic tile on top in the area where we spent most time during the day. It had higher than average ceilings throughout. The heating vents for the gas furnace were in the ceiling, and the heat flowed across the ceiling and up the stairs before we felt any real benefit, and we weren’t willing to turn the thermostat up high enough to make it truly comfortable. It was a few years before we got our wood insert installed, and we did a lot of energy efficiency upgrades first, but we were so thankful when we finally had wood heat because we were just simply so much warmer in our open family room/kitchen/dining room area. We had a tall chimney, but we burned regularly when overnight temperatures where in the forties and thirties [and sometimes twenties and teens or even single digits] and daytime temperatures were in the fifties or even sixties if it wasn’t sunny. We didn’t keep a fire all day in warmer daytime temperatures, but overnight fires with morning stokings were common.
I really can’t speak to your payback period, but I just wanted to mention that there may be things to consider other than just the monetary return on investment. In our cases we were able to save money on our heating bills and feel more comfortable at the same time. We were particularly glad to have the wood insert during the winter storm in Texas in February 2021. We did not suffer the rolling blackouts that others did because of our proximity to a fire station, but we did lose power at points just due to the storm. When our electricity was on, we turned down our furnaces to conserve fuel and pushed the stove much harder than normal for us, probably closer to normal for most woodburners in cold climates.
Just because North Carolina isn’t as cold as some other places doesn’t mean it isn’t cold enough to realize a benefit. If you haven’t looked into insulating and air sealing, though, it would be wise to do that first. It will help your cooling needs, too.
And yes, pine and poplar are safe to burn if they are dry. I prefer pine over poplar just because poplar leaves a lot of ash.. We burned a lot of cedar [truly a juniper] in Texas. It was great wood. Our live oak was so dense that the cedar was useful for helping to burn down the coals, so we mixed or alternated loads a lot. When we lived in Virginia, we burned a lot of red oak, but it took a lot of time to season compared to pine or poplar, so we kept those on hand, too.
Another question to consider is whether you are happy with the level to which you heat with your current heating setup. When we installed an insert into the finished walkout basement of our Virginia home, it was because it was unpleasantly cool down there when the upstairs thermostat was set to sixty-eight, which was as high as we set it. The basement became everybody’s favorite place to be at that point during winter.
In Texas with a much warmer winter climate we found ourselves very cold in our house because it was set up to be air conditioned more than heated. It was built on an uninsulated slab with ceramic tile on top in the area where we spent most time during the day. It had higher than average ceilings throughout. The heating vents for the gas furnace were in the ceiling, and the heat flowed across the ceiling and up the stairs before we felt any real benefit, and we weren’t willing to turn the thermostat up high enough to make it truly comfortable. It was a few years before we got our wood insert installed, and we did a lot of energy efficiency upgrades first, but we were so thankful when we finally had wood heat because we were just simply so much warmer in our open family room/kitchen/dining room area. We had a tall chimney, but we burned regularly when overnight temperatures where in the forties and thirties [and sometimes twenties and teens or even single digits] and daytime temperatures were in the fifties or even sixties if it wasn’t sunny. We didn’t keep a fire all day in warmer daytime temperatures, but overnight fires with morning stokings were common.
I really can’t speak to your payback period, but I just wanted to mention that there may be things to consider other than just the monetary return on investment. In our cases we were able to save money on our heating bills and feel more comfortable at the same time. We were particularly glad to have the wood insert during the winter storm in Texas in February 2021. We did not suffer the rolling blackouts that others did because of our proximity to a fire station, but we did lose power at points just due to the storm. When our electricity was on, we turned down our furnaces to conserve fuel and pushed the stove much harder than normal for us, probably closer to normal for most woodburners in cold climates.
Just because North Carolina isn’t as cold as some other places doesn’t mean it isn’t cold enough to realize a benefit. If you haven’t looked into insulating and air sealing, though, it would be wise to do that first. It will help your cooling needs, too.
And yes, pine and poplar are safe to burn if they are dry. I prefer pine over poplar just because poplar leaves a lot of ash.. We burned a lot of cedar [truly a juniper] in Texas. It was great wood. Our live oak was so dense that the cedar was useful for helping to burn down the coals, so we mixed or alternated loads a lot. When we lived in Virginia, we burned a lot of red oak, but it took a lot of time to season compared to pine or poplar, so we kept those on hand, too.
30WCF
Minister of Fire
It’s fun, if that counts. If you like that sort of thing. I’m just south of Greensboro, about an hour from you I guess. You can install it yourself and save some cash if you want.
I am entering winter number two with my insert and I tried figuring out the ROI but couldn’t. I obviously can calculate the fuel savings, but in addition to that my home has never been warmer. I’m talking potentially 10 degrees higher than I had my thermostat set in the past and it was nice. I also did not worry about the rising fuel prices that everyone speculated about last fall. I am a fan of the insert, but I’m not loving building up a few years supply. However I tell myself that next year I won’t have to do as much.
xman23
Minister of Fire
You can save as much as you spend on heat. Some here do just that.
I've never purchased wood. Just so many opportunities here.
If you handy and have the time you can install it yourself. The stove and chimney clearly give you all the clearances
When to not burn? I try to hold off on lighting a night time fire unless it's below 40 F. Generally don't keep it running all night. Much easier and less wood wasted, by overheating the house.
So there are a lot of options in wood burning. We love the fire and the heat is the additional benefit.
I've never purchased wood. Just so many opportunities here.
If you handy and have the time you can install it yourself. The stove and chimney clearly give you all the clearances
When to not burn? I try to hold off on lighting a night time fire unless it's below 40 F. Generally don't keep it running all night. Much easier and less wood wasted, by overheating the house.
So there are a lot of options in wood burning. We love the fire and the heat is the additional benefit.
30WCF
Minister of Fire
If your doing all the work in the heat of summer, it’s much more pleasant to do it in the spring, fall, and winter( if your winters allow you to)
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