Wood Comparison

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soupy1957

Minister of Fire
Jan 8, 2010
1,365
Connecticut
www.youtube.com
As of Sunday, we have consumed 1/2 cord of wood (start date for burning was Oct. 1st). It was (the 1/2 cord) in the garage all summer.

Sunday's armloads were from one of the two outdoor stacks. My wife commented that the wood seems to fire up more intensely. I concur.

What IS it about the wood outside (the garage is not insulated) that has been sitting cross-stacked on pallets, that it might burn more "intensely" or whatever?

Of course, it's all under tarps now, but was exposed (except for the top layer; I had the tarps folded up and only laying on the top of the stacks, since about mid-November), for most of the summer, and was pre-seasoned when I stacked it. What was in the garage, is the same as the type of wood stacked outside.

Maybe it's my imagination.........

-Soupy1957
 
If it was all split at the same time then I would guess that the difference is that you don't have a sun in your garage.
 
I'm w/ krex. The wood simply gets more of what it needs to season outside: sun / wind. While the garage is dry, they are usually missing those 2 elements.

pen
 
Well, "Sun" I agree with of course. "Wind" on the other hand, ......isn't it just "air" (airing out the wood) and not necessarily "wind?"

In fact, the "stack" in the garage was only criss-crossed on the ends and it was two rows wide. I'm sure it didn't get the kind of airflow (wind or not) that the wood OUTSIDE did.

Obvious difference in the rate at which this wood burns (the stuff from Outside).

-Soupy1957
 
It is in fact wind and the sun, the wood needs air moving over it, the more the better.
 
The "air" outside has no time to have humidity build up. The "air" in the garage, is most likely more humid, which could account for a slightly higher moisture content which accounts for the less intense burn. At least that would make scense. Either that or you are just losing it soupy.
 
Criss-crossed, ends only, stacked 2 rows deep on pallets, uncovered May-October is the way I go. I do cheat just a little on this as I have uprights on the ends of my pallets so I don't have to criss-cross the ends for stack stability. The idea being wind going 'through' the stacks and the sun do the work of proper seasoning. Stacked in a garage, two rows deep doesn't get sun or 'wind' it gets 'breeze' - but only when the garage door is open.

In winter, for the wood I will burn that season, I tarp the tops and drop the tarp only about 2' down the sides - like this sample from last year:

0110101101cc.jpg


If it is a stack of wood I won't be burning that season, I only tarp the tops of the stacks.

Yes, I custom cut/grommet my tarps to fit my stacks.

Shari
 
Motionless air just sitting next to the wood will not really be helpful in seasoning the wood compared to a stack of wood which has been carefully positioned to catch the warm summer breezes.

Curiosity makes me wonder if there is a perfect way to stack wood to get the most of warm summer breezes....... :)
 
As moisture leaves the wood in a stack, if there is no wind, there will be higher humidity immediately surrounding all of the splits. As soon as this happens, there is a reduction in the speed with which additional moisture can leave the splits. Wind 'removes' the humidity surrounding the stacks, and thereby increases the rate that additional moisture can leave the splits. Cheers!
 
krex1010 said:
If it was all split at the same time then I would guess that the difference is that you don't have a sun in your garage.

True. But more important is the wind. We stack wood sometimes where it gets little or no sun but the wind does its work very well.
 
NH_Wood said:
As moisture leaves the wood in a stack, if there is no wind, there will be higher humidity immediately surrounding all of the splits. As soon as this happens, there is a reduction in the speed with which additional moisture can leave the splits. Wind 'removes' the humidity surrounding the stacks, and thereby increases the rate that additional moisture can leave the splits. Cheers!

Perfect explanation of why moving air is needed for faster drying. ;-)
 
soupy1957 said:
Well, "Sun" I agree with of course. "Wind" on the other hand, ......isn't it just "air" (airing out the wood) and not necessarily "wind?"

In fact, the "stack" in the garage was only criss-crossed on the ends and it was two rows wide. I'm sure it didn't get the kind of airflow (wind or not) that the wood OUTSIDE did.

Obvious difference in the rate at which this wood burns (the stuff from Outside).

-Soupy1957

Soupy if you think this is a big difference you should see the difference between 1 year old and 3 year old wood. But wait! There is more. This year we've been able to compare some 6-7 year old wood to some 2 year old wood. Again, there is a big difference. I'll take the wood that has been in the outdoor stack for many years.
 
Battenkiller said:
NH_Wood said:
As moisture leaves the wood in a stack, if there is no wind, there will be higher humidity immediately surrounding all of the splits. As soon as this happens, there is a reduction in the speed with which additional moisture can leave the splits. Wind 'removes' the humidity surrounding the stacks, and thereby increases the rate that additional moisture can leave the splits. Cheers!

Perfect explanation of why moving air is needed for faster drying. ;-)

I couldn't agree more.
 
Our place is located on the south side of the crest of a hill. I'll be sitting on my deck sometimes watching the northwind whipping in the treetops, and not feel the air moving. I've always figured that was a good thing, in terms of heating the house, but now I see that it's a mixed blessing. If not for all these posts, I wouldn't have thought to try to maximize location of my woodshed-to-be for airflow, and I thank you for that.

I wouldn't have known that I need to dry my firewood out in the microwave before I used it, either.

So much to learn . . .
 
Backwoods Savage said:
This year we've been able to compare some 6-7 year old wood to some 2 year old wood. Again, there is a big difference. I'll take the wood that has been in the outdoor stack for many years.

Something tells me that it is not just the drying out (seasoning) of the wood, otherwise quickly dried wood with 15% moisture would burn as well as outdoor seasoned wood at 15% moisture.

Seasoning wood is probably not just about making it drier. Some sort of other change must take place within the cells and cell walls of the wood when it dries out slowly over a period of time.

Or is all wood sap just water and nothing else?

Over to the experts :)
 
woodchip said:
Backwoods Savage said:
This year we've been able to compare some 6-7 year old wood to some 2 year old wood. Again, there is a big difference. I'll take the wood that has been in the outdoor stack for many years.

Something tells me that it is not just the drying out (seasoning) of the wood, otherwise quickly dried wood with 15% moisture would burn as well as outdoor seasoned wood at 15% moisture.

Seasoning wood is probably not just about making it drier. Some sort of other change must take place within the cells and cell walls of the wood when it dries out slowly over a period of time.

Or is all wood sap just water and nothing else?

Over to the experts :)

Well, when the moisture leaves there has to be a change. I've always thought that the biggest change is that the wood shrinks and therefor actually becomes a bit tighter or dense. Not sure if that is right or not but just supposing.

How much does it shrink? Our 4 1/2' tall wood stacks become 4' or less over a year or two. I've never checked the height after that to see if there is any shrinkage or not but if there is it is probably very minimal.
 
Backwoods Savage said:
How much does it shrink? Our 4 1/2' tall wood stacks become 4' or less over a year or two. I've never checked the height after that to see if there is any shrinkage or not but if there is it is probably very minimal.

Glad to see someone brought up 'shrinkage' in reference to firewood. When you think about it, if you purchase a stacked 4x4x8 cord (128 cu ft) of green "firewood", after a year or two of seasoning that "firewood" the same 4x4x8 stack is no longer 4' tall due to shrinkage - so, did you REALLY really purchase a full cord (128 cu ft) of "firewood"? :) :) :)


Logically, if you purchase a 128 cu ft of green wood versus 128 cu ft of fully seasoned FIREwood you then receive MORE wood if the wood is fully seasoned.


........let the discussion debate this issue!.... :) :) :)
 
You are very correct Shari. Just one more reason I hate to see wood sellers selling green wood by the cord. You are buying moisture along with wood. Why pay for that moisture?
 
I suspect most of us know that if you buy green wood you will be buying quite a lot of water in the wood (possibly half ton of water in a cord of unseasoned wood).

But I had never thought before about the shrinkage issue before, it makes buying seasoned wood even better as you don't just get decent dry wood, you actually get more of it :)
 
Glad you both agree with me! :)

Now, I don't know if the state I live in has defined wood selling laws or not like some of the eastern states do - but, now that at least two readers understand/comprehend the shrinkage issue, can you imagine the can of worms this shrinkage issue would bring up in the eastern states with all the laws defining EXACTLY what equates a cord of firewood? My lordy, they could have a field day defining a cord by % of moisture, degree of shrinkage, etc.
 
I think as much as 10% shrinkage has been bantered about WRT firewood. Builders have long known and dealt with wood shrinkage. A log home can shrink as much as 3 - 4 inches in height at the top of the doors and they factor for it during construction. On platform stick built homes, while the vertical members don't exhibit the shrinkage that log homes do, the horizontal components (platforms) do and often will dislodge siding, buckle stucco, etc. if not compensated for during construction. Even the length of drywall screws are a factor in the severity of "pops".

I concur with others that wind (moving air) is essential to drying.
 
LL,

BS's statements indicate around a 8.8% shrinkage rate so, yeah, 10% is not out of line and various woods contain various amounts of water weight.
 
woodchip said:
But I had never thought before about the shrinkage issue before, it makes buying seasoned wood even better as you don't just get decent dry wood, you actually get more of it :)

Correct. :)
 
<snip> sorry, wrong thread
 
Shari said:
woodchip said:
But I had never thought before about the shrinkage issue before, it makes buying seasoned wood even better as you don't just get decent dry wood, you actually get more of it :)

Correct. :)

True yes, but now where exactly does one find truly seasoned (dry) wood to buy? Ok - you can buy kiln dried but then you consider your $'s/effective BTU you are going to go find your saw, cut some green, and let it dry out yourself.
 
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