Wood stove insert installation advice; Do I need to insulate liner? Is a reducer a bad idea?

[BrotherBart]

Rockford:

For Solid Fuel Applications
Insulation provided for the Rock-FlexTM system will be a single ½” (13mm) thick layer of insulating blanket. This insulating system
is listed to allow zero clearance from the chimney masonry exterior to combustibles. The 8 lb. density insulating blanket must be
wrapped around the entire length of the liner in an unlined, partially lined, or cracked clay tile liner application.

 

[bholler]

still not seeing the source for your info that you get to zero clearance by the time you reach the tile.

 

[BrotherBart]

If you have a suggestion to make in response to the OP's questions, make it. If you want to discuss liner installation issues, start a thread.

 

[bholler]

ok that one is not clear as to clearances for a clay lined chimney look at nationals it is very clear it states that "if the proper clearances listed above cannot be determined the liner must be installed with a ul listed chimney insulation" I wish I could find the installation manual for the liner he is looking at but I couldn't find it.

 

[bholler]

I am telling the op that he should insulate the liner which I believe was his original question. And he is right there is allot of conflicting info but if you read the instructions ratings or industry hand books it is pretty clear.

 

[a316co2000]

I am telling the op that he should insulate the liner which I believe was his original question.

I'm a little confused...

My chimney, as far as I can tell, is brick and mortar. Is that the same as "clay lined?"

What does zero clearance mean?

 

[bholler]

I am sorry a316co2000 I assumed because your sweep said it was good to go it had a good clay liner in it. Do you know if it does or if it is unlined brick? And zero clearance means that combustible materials can be touching the outside of the masonry structure. Required clearances from the exterior of a masonry chimney is 1" for an exterior chimney and 2" for an internal one.

 

[a316co2000]

Yeah that is how I did it and what I did it with.

I'm assuming there's a reason doing what I'm about to propose would be a bad idea, but if so, it's not obvious to me why. That said...

The rolux comes in packages of 59 square feet of insulation for $37. If 59 square feet is enough insulation to do so, would it be beneficial to wrap the rolux around the liner and secure with something like this: http://www.amazon.com/3M-High-Tempe...TF8&qid=1392163446&sr=8-1&keywords=flue+tape; or this: http://www.amazon.com/CS-Hyde-Tempe...163506&sr=8-2&keywords=high+temperature+tape?

I know the rolux can handle the temperature, and it seems like insulating the liner in this manner would be better than not insulating it at all.

 

[BrotherBart]

Brick and mortar is the outside of the chimney structure. If the place you made the 13X13 measurement was orange ceramic material that is the interior flue tiles. Which I have no doubt are there are that sweep would have never blessed your chimney. And in 1972 virtually all building codes required flue tile lining in chimneys.

 

[bholler]

yes bart which is what I assumed also but that is not necessarily true I just wanted to check.

 

[a316co2000]

I am sorry a316co2000 I assumed because your sweep said it was good to go it had a good clay liner in it. Do you know if it does or if it is unlined brick? And zero clearance means that combustible materials can be touching the outside of the masonry structure. Required clearances from the exterior of a masonry chimney is 1" for an exterior chimney and 2" for an internal one.

I have no idea if it is clay or if it's unlined brick. The house was built in 1972 and I just bought it in June of last year. I tried opening the damper and shining a flashlight up it, but I really couldn't tell what I was looking at.

 

[BrotherBart]

It can be done but the hassle ain't worth the couple of hundred bucks or so a real insulation kit will cost you.

 

[a316co2000]

Brick and mortar is the outside of the chimney structure. If the place you made the 13X13 measurement was orange ceramic material that is the interior flue tiles. Which I have no doubt are there are that sweep would have never blessed your chimney. And in 1972 virtually all building codes required flue tile lining in chimneys.

I didn't take the 13x13 measurement, I just read it off of the inspection paperwork. I looked on the paperwork and I don't see any info about clay or tile lining.

 

[BrotherBart]

Where did you get that 13X13 measurement?

We were typing at the same time.

 

[BrotherBart]

I didn't take the 13x13 measurement, I just read it off of the inspection paperwork. I looked on the paperwork and I don't see any info about clay or tile lining.

So we are back at square one. No clue what chimney you have there.

 

[a316co2000]

So we are back at square one. No clue what chimney you have there.

What type of chimney/liner would require me to insulate the liner, and what type(s) would not require me to?

 

[bholler]

If it in fact is unlined I believe every one would agree to insulate it 13 by 13 is not a standard clay liner size so it might not be lined but I guess no point in speculation. And I am sorry if I offended you bart not my intention I know you know your stuff I just disagree with you on this point.

 

[a316co2000]

If it in fact is unlined I believe every one would agree to insulate it 13 by 13 is not a standard clay liner size so it might not be lined but I guess no point in speculation. And I am sorry if I offended you bart not my intention I know you know your stuff I just disagree with you on this point.

If it is not lined, wouldn't the chimney inspector have mentioned that?

EDIT: I just looked at my home inspection report from when I bought the house and it says "Flue: lined" It doesn't say how it is lined.

 

[BrotherBart]

It can only be speculated what you have there. But a 12X12 interior diameter flue tile is 13X13 exterior diameter. But somebody needs to get a look at that thing to know for sure what you need for it. Frankly, at his point I wouldn't advise you doing this DIY.

 

[a316co2000]

It can only be speculated what you have there. But a 12X12 interior diameter flue tile is 13X13 exterior diameter. But somebody needs to get a look at that thing to know for sure what you need for it. Frankly, at his point I wouldn't advise you doing this DIY.

I'm going to call the company that inspected the chimney tomorrow and see if they have a record of how it is lined.

 

[BrotherBart]

If you are thinking about lining this thing yourself sooner rather than later you are going to have to go up there and take a look down that thing and see what you are getting into. Taking a camera and tape measure with you should be a part of that trip.

Not the next three or four days of course. Ten inches of snow on the roof is gonna be a bummer.

 

[a316co2000]

If you are thinking about lining this thing yourself sooner rather than later you are going to have to go up there and take a look down that thing and see what you are getting into. Taking a camera and tape measure with you should be a part of that trip.

Not the next three or four days of course. Ten inches of snow on the roof is gonna be a bummer.

I planned on going up there and dropping a tape measure down before buying the liner to ensure I get one that's long enough, but I was hoping to get a 40 degree day before doing so. I would prefer to make it a DIY project. The chimney inspection company quoted me $1,500 when they came to do the inspection, the cheapest by far of anywhere else I called for an over-the-phone quote. As good a deal as that is relative to other companies, $1,500 isn't exactly in the budget right now. The Air Force pays me well, but they don't pay me THAT well.

Would any speculation on what type of chimney I have be irrelevant if I just went ahead and insulated the liner? I'm not throwing in the towel on avoiding the insulation cost, but worst case scenario, would that make me safe no matter what?

 

[Big Dan]

nobody said what the bare minimum to do to get it to pass inspection is it might just be a flu connector that's cheap. but I wouldn't recommend just putting in a flu connector

 

[BrotherBart]

No way to know until we know what that chimney is. Lining a chimney isn't a walk in the park. It is a dirty, dangerous job with the working on a roof factor. And you virtually always have some kinds of obstructions and offsets in the chimney.

 

[BrotherBart]

nobody said what the bare minimum to do to get it to pass inspection is it might just be a flu connector that's cheap. but I wouldn't recommend just putting in a flu connector

You are talking about a direct connect, and that is out of the question.