Wood Stove Installation Inswool & Damper Question

[JotulStove]

Howdy,

I've searched on Google to find an answer with no luck, but I did luckily find this forum. I also searched the forum using the word "inswool" but the 4 threads that came up did not have any mention of my situation.

I'll try to make it as short as I can. What I basically have is a question about Inswool being used to close up the hole in the flue after the rear of the damper (damper question below) was smashed out (by the installer), the stove was put in and Inswool and only Inswool was used to close the hole in chimney flue.

I have a house built in 1790 with 4 fireplaces. One of those being what I have heard called a "Walk in" fireplace. The opening is basically 4 feet wide and 4 feet tall. So you can imagine the flue is huge as is or was the flue housing.

I had a wood stove put in by a so called professional. He smashed the back of the damper housing out and removed that section and the flap. Shoved the stove in my fireplace opening and now was left with a hole approximately 3 feet wide by 2 feet deep on top of the stove going up the chimney flue.

Anyone familiar with basement insulation and rafters might have seen how some unfinished basements that are insulated have rods that hold up the insulation between the rafters. Well basically what I am getting at is the installer cut some aluminum rods, rested those in my flue from front to back and then laid some Inswool on top of them as his solution to close the hole.

Now I've searched the web and cant find any mention of using this as a way of closing the flue.

What I have found is the MSDS for Inswool basically telling me how bad this stuff is to breath. Fibers cause cancer. And other good stuff like that.

So I cant say I'm too happy with his solution. Problem is he tells me "Thats how everyone does it" "Its the industry standard".

Well like I said, if everyone did it that way, why cant I find any mention of it anywhere.

So I ask you my fellow wood stove users what do you think? As I'm not happy about this solution and I've already found fibers on top of the stove from the Inswool so I know its got to be in the air.

Also I asked why he smashed out the complete housing and not just cut out an area big enough for the stove pipe to go up, then I would have at least had the rest of the damper housing and damper flap to close off a huge section of the hole.

Now I know some people are saying of course he had o smash it out to make room, but as mentioned about the flue is huge and so was the damper. An average person of average height and weight could most likely climb up it if they had rock wall climbing experience.

Is that also industry standard to smash out the damper housing?

Thanks Much

 

[bholler]

Ok well first off you didn't mention is there a liner hooked to this stove? Secondly there should be a full metal plate under that insulation. Post some picture so we can understand better. If it is a big old walk in does it have a wood beam across the top? If so did the installer protect it in any way? And no smashing the damper fram is not standard cutting the frame is

 

[begreen]

Welcome. It's a shame the installer did not respect the original equipment and do a work around. Take a look above the stove in the lintel and damper area and see if there is exposed wood. It's not unusual in very old fireplaces like this. If so, it should be shielded from the heat of the flue liner. Was the chimney thoroughly cleaned before the liner was installed? This is very important. Was a full liner installed to the top of the chimney?

In order for your new stove to not end up heating the outdoors it's recommended that a damper sealing block-off plate be installed. The "inswool" is probably mineral wool. One common brand is Roxul. It's ok to leave that there, but have a block-off plate installed that is fitted around the liner.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/

PS: We love old fireplaces. It would be great if you could post some pictures of the setup.

 

[JotulStove]

 

[BrotherBart]

Inswool is ceramic fiber insulation. Pretty much like Roxul.

 

[JotulStove]

Just posted some pictures that say they need moderator approval.

Yes there is a liner attached to the back of the stove going up the flue.

The pictures show the stove and what the Inswool looks like.

To say I'm not pleased with the install is an understatement.

Thats the reason why I am trying to find some answers to some questions I have about it, as I am possible going to be disputing some charges with my credit card company for paying for a professional installation that in my opinion was far from professional.

But since I've never put a stove in before maybe it was professional to smash out a 120 year old damper housing.

I still think he had enough room to cut out a section and work around it.

Thanks

 

[JotulStove]

Inswool is ceramic fiber insulation. Pretty much like Roxul.

Ok, but as I mentioned when I read the MSDS I see plenty of mentions like "Dust from product at any stage of its use or during tear-out after service may, especially on long exposure, lead to lung disease unless respiratory protection is employed."

So should I be happy it was used, or should I be worried?

Thanks

 

[BrotherBart]

Handled by using a chimney block off plate.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/make-a-damper-sealing-block-off-plate/

 

[bholler]

well I am pretty sure it was not a 120 year old damper housing to start with. That fire place looks like it has been worked on pretty extensively. Still he should have cut it. It really will not release fibers unless it is disturbed. But it should have a block off plate under it regardless. Have you voiced your concerns to the installer?

 

[JotulStove]

well I am pretty sure it was not a 120 year old damper housing to start with. That fire place looks like it has been worked on pretty extensively. Still he should have cut it. It really will not release fibers unless it is disturbed. But it should have a block off plate under it regardless. Have you voiced your concerns to the installer?

Well the Damper and Housing were Cast Iron and the damper was stamped 1890. Why would you think the damper housing could not be 120 years old? Just curious.

Yes, I have voiced my concerns with the installer saying I didnt think just the Inswool should have been there, but some kind of closure. Now I know its called a block off plate, thank you for that information.

The installer is basically telling me just putting the Inswool "Is what all installers do". I paid enough for what I thought was a professional installation and I'm just trying to find out and or determine if thats what I got.

Thanks

 

[bholler]

Well that is the date the patent was issued but from the limited view from your picture it looks like there is a new lintel and looks like an older rebuilt firebox. Actually many of the big old original fire places we se here in pa have no dampers. Another reason is that what I can see of what is left of it it seems to be in really good shape. Much better than most I see that are no where near that old. But I absolutely could be wrong. Tell him that you are not satisfied with his install and he needs to fix it. You never answered beegreen's question about weather or not it was cleaned and I am curios if it is insulated.

 

[JotulStove]

Well that is the date the patent was issued but from the limited view from your picture it looks like there is a new lintel and looks like an older rebuilt firebox. Actually many of the big old original fire places we se here in pa have no dampers. Another reason is that what I can see of what is left of it it seems to be in really good shape. Much better than most I see that are no where near that old. But I absolutely could be wrong. Tell him that you are not satisfied with his install and he needs to fix it. You never answered beegreen's question about weather or not it was cleaned and I am curios if it is insulated.

You are correct, I forgot to answer those questions.

Nothing was cleaned before the installation. I do have to say that the flue is pretty big, not sure if that makes a difference. I am pretty skinny and if I squeezed in next to the stove and moved the Inswool out of the way I can stand up.

Being chimney/flue wood stove ignorant, would someone be able to explain to me why it should have been cleaned to install the liner?

As far as being insulated, I'm assuming you mean the liner. I just looked at the estimate which is all I have, and all it says is liner kit. I assumed they were all insulated. Is that not the case?

Thanks

 

[begreen]

Cleaning the flue before installing a liner is not really optional. It must be done. The reason being is that creosote is flammable. You don't want a hot liner touching up or near a combustible product in the chimney. If it ignites the results are not pretty.

How did you find this installer? What were his qualifications or references?

 

[JotulStove]

Cleaning the flue before installing a liner is not really optional. It must be done. The reason being is that creosote is flammable. You don't want a hot liner touching up or near a combustible product in the chimney. If it ignites the results are not pretty.

How did you find this installer? What were his qualifications or references?

Thanks for the answer, the installer was one of the few (but bigger) Wood Stove stores in the area. They have been there a long time.

When I mention (few), that was pretty much my problem. Depending on where you live you might only have 1 or 2 of these stores that will come out and install one for you by their so called installation experts.

My thought was by using the store I purchased the stove from to install it, is that if there were any problems with the stove due to the install, the store could not blame the installers.

Thanks

 

[mellow]

I would find out if they used black single wall pipe the whole way to the top, insulated stainless steel should have been used since it is an existing chimney and insulated to make sure it meets code with a chimney of that age. The only other way would be to run a camera down the flue to make sure it has no cracks or combustibles near by, if that is not done then the stainless liner needs to be insulated.

 

[begreen]

I would find out if they used black single wall pipe the whole way to the top, insulated stainless steel should have been used since it is an existing chimney and insulated to make sure it meets code with a chimney of that age.

Very good point! I saw that black pipe and wondered what it was connecting to. Sure hope it is a stainless liner and not just a stub in. I would take a look up the chimney with a bright flashlight (and maybe a camera) and check this out.

 

[bholler]

I agree with everyone you need to find out more details about what was installed it looks and sounds like a little bit of a shotty install so I would check everything closely. If it is really hat old of a fp the flue is probably bare brick and very large. The liner should be insulated because of the probable clearance to combustibles issues as well as performance. In a large flue like I am assuming yours is it will take allot of time to heat up all that air around the liner to get to proper operating temperature

 

[JotulStove]

Thanks everyone for the info so far. Sorry for the late reply, but I dont have computer access at work.

Yes there is a stainless liner just above the Inswool. I emailed them to ask if it was Insulated.

When you mention "In a large flue like I am assuming yours is it will take allot of time to heat up all that air around the liner to get to proper operating temperature" could you please expand on that?

I have a buddy who has a Vermont Casting Stove, fairly new, a little smaller than mine. He tells me how his gets up to 600 degrees very easily. I can get mine to 500-550, but that burning it at full blast for a little while. Then it will stay around there.

If I burn it in what I would consider a "Normal" fashion, it runs pretty much a consistent 400.

Does that have anything to do with the size of the flue and/or the liner?

Thanks

 

[bholler]

I am talking about the space around the liner inside the old fireplace flue. In order to get that flue to the proper operating temperature if the liner is not insulated you will need to heat up all of that surrounding air. Until you do that the flue gasses will be cooling very quickly which means the draft will not be as good as it should be and that there is more of a potential for creosote buildup. Insulating the liner will take care of that problem

 

[begreen]

Thanks everyone for the info so far. Sorry for the late reply, but I dont have computer access at work.

Yes there is a stainless liner just above the Inswool. I emailed them to ask if it was Insulated.

When you mention "In a large flue like I am assuming yours is it will take allot of time to heat up all that air around the liner to get to proper operating temperature" could you please expand on that?

I have a buddy who has a Vermont Casting Stove, fairly new, a little smaller than mine. He tells me how his gets up to 600 degrees very easily. I can get mine to 500-550, but that burning it at full blast for a little while. Then it will stay around there.

If I burn it in what I would consider a "Normal" fashion, it runs pretty much a consistent 400.

Does that have anything to do with the size of the flue and/or the liner?

Thanks

Could be the wood is not fully seasoned yet. How tall is this liner? Where is the air control set to for full blast or normal?