Woodburning Stove Insert Issues

[droogie]

My wife and I recently purchased a home with a wood burning insert and we seem to be having issues using the insert properly. We tried to use the insert as a regular fireplace (leave the doors open and keep a fire going) but the problem is the house smells like a campfire. Not only that, but our clothes smell like we've been hanging out next to a camp fire. We have never noticed that with just regular fireplaces.

Next we tried (last night) to use the insert with the doors closed to heat the room and that seemed to be a failure. The fire would die fairly quickly as if there wasn't enough oxygen getting to the fire. When we open the doors, the fire came back to life. There are two vents which I believe are for oxygen intake that we had wide open and the fire still seemed to die.

Also, the insert comes equipped with a blower which blows out of of 4 vents. Two of the vents blow nice hot ait (when the fire actually stays lit) but the other two vents blow cold air, or more like luke warm air.

Any ideas on what we could be doing wrong? Is the type of wood an issue? We've never cleaned the chimney, could that be an issue? Do wood buring inserts need a tune up?

 

[Dix]

Welcome to the forums, Droogie !

Is there a name on this insert? Pics would help, too.

How dry is the wood? Do you know if the chimney is clean?

Let's find out what you have, and go from there

 

[rphurley]

Sorry to hear about the problems you're having so far. I'm not an expert, but they'll chime in here soon. Was you chimney flu lined to the top when the insert was installed, because I'm wondering if there is a problem with the draft. Another thing to consider is the quality of the wood you are burning. One thing that you will find stessed over and over again on this site is the need for properly seasoned wood. You may want to try buying some wood at the store in those pre-packaged bundles, and see if you get better results.
Rich

 

[droogie]

The wood should be pretty good, I've had it in the garage for two years and I originally bought the wood from what appears to be a reputable wood seller. The wood is quite heavy though, which I would think is good since it won't burn away in a few minutes. Like I said, I'll get a nice fire going, close the doors and things go downhill from there.

I'm out of the house right now but I'll take a look at the insert and see if I can get a make or model off of the unit.

We've never cleaned the chimney in the year we've been around and we aren't sure when the previous owners last had the chimney cleaned. We are thinking about scheduling a cleaning just to see if that helps but I first wanted to see if the experts had any other advice.

 

[droogie]

One more thing, my wife wants to remove the insert since she is into the aesthetics of the fire more than actually using the stove to suppliment our heat. I would love to use the insert in the manor in which the stove was designed to be used, to heat an area. With the help of this forum, maybe I can convince my wife to keep the insert and maybe save some money in the long run.

Two issues she has other than the stove not working properly is she doesn't want the house or us to smell. A light smell in the air isn't bad but if the furniture and carpet are pungent then she won't be happy. Also, she is worried about leaving a fire going while we aren't around.

 

[rphurley]

Tell her not to give up yet. A properly functioning insert can give you lots of heat with no smell at all, except from an occasional wisp when you open the door to reload or clean. Was a stainless steel flue liner installed when the stove was put in?

 

[Dix]

One more thing, my wife wants to remove the insert since she is into the aesthetics of the fire more than actually using the stove to suppliment our heat. I would love to use the insert in the manor in which the stove was designed to be used, to heat an area. With the help of this forum, maybe I can convince my wife to keep the insert and maybe save some money in the long run.

Two issues she has other than the stove not working properly is she doesn't want the house or us to smell. A light smell in the air isn't bad but if the furniture and carpet are pungent then she won't be happy. Also, she is worried about leaving a fire going while we aren't around.

Boy, did you come to the right place.

Buncha enablers, I tell ya.

 

[droogie]

Not sure about what went on during installation. Maybe we can call the previous owner but we weren't involved in the installation. Is there a way I can tell?

 

[rphurley]

Not sure about what went on during installation. Maybe we can call the previous owner but we weren't involved in the installation. Is there a way I can tell?

You could have a look down your chimney, or pull off the surround and have a look up. Since you havn't had the chimney cleaned, you should hire a full-service chimney sweep to clean and inspect your set-up.

 

[droogie]

That's what I was thinking, if we hire the chimney sweep, we could get advice from them on what could be wrong. Maybe we'll try that. I'll also take a look at the make and model and post back. If I don't find a make or model I'll try to take a pic and post that.

 

[FPX Dude]

and you shouldn't even have a whiff of smell...most people who walk into our house don't even know I have a fire going until they see it, then they gather around and go "ohhh...ahhh"!

 

[rphurley]

Not sure about what went on during installation. Maybe we can call the previous owner but we weren't involved in the installation. Is there a way I can tell?

Be sure to keep us posted, I'm curious to know what the problem is, and we'd also like to know the brand and model of insert you have.

 

[EJL923]

My money is on inadequate draft, probably caused by a dirty chimney or a chimney which wasnt lined properly.

 

[treehackers]

Not sure about what went on during installation. Maybe we can call the previous owner but we weren't involved in the installation. Is there a way I can tell?

You could have a look down your chimney, or pull off the surround and have a look up. Since you havn't had the chimney cleaned, you should hire a full-service chimney sweep to clean and inspect your set-up.

Bingo - sounds like an obstruction in the chimney. Pull it apart, look up (or down) the chimney and give it a good cleaning.

 

[DanCorcoran]

One thing about flues/chimneys that is counterintuitive: bigger is not better. A 6" round flue will generally give a much better draft than an 8" square chimney. That's why your chimney should have been lined when the insert was installed (and may have been, but you and we don't yet know).

 

[tickbitty]

All wood stoves have some kind of air control that controls where the smoke should go. (up the chimney, not into the room!) My insert has an air control as well as a bypass damper. If I try to make a fire or load with both of those closed, it would go for me just about how you describe - pour smoke into the room and if I then close the door, it would smolder and go out. When I start a fire or reload, I have those draft controls open, so the smoke goes up and out instead of into the room. Many folks have to leave the door cracked slightly till the fire really catches, and then they can shut it. When the temps go up, the air can be shut down some to sustain the burn longer and for EPA stoves, it will reburn the smoke so there isn't as much pollution.

If you can post a pic of your insert someone here will be able to give you info on it, and whether it looks like one that you should pull out, put in a liner, and replace, or one you might be better off taking out, etc. Does it have a glass door so you can see the flames? If not it might be an older model?

 

[KeepItNatural]

Hey Droogie,

I have an older custom designed fireplace insert, so let me talk to you about what I've experienced and see what lines up with what you have going for you.

First- I would go ahead and just assume that the previous owners hadn't had the chimney cleaned in a while, and since you haven't had it done yet, simply for safety reasons, go ahead and get that done. Functionality aside, that is an important safety concern.

Second- why not go ahead and clean out the insert as best you can, and since only some of the blowers are really working, why not contact someone in your area to come out and look at the unit and just make sure there's nothing they can't do to get it running tip top. Think about it, the best way to protect your investment in a car is through routine maintenance- since this is your home and not your car- go ahead and get this thing checked out.

Third- Wood is half of the fuel source, so make sure the wood is at an appropriate moisture content. 20% seems to be a good consensus on this forum. There are a number of ways to check it- anything from putting some baking powder on it and seeing if it cakes up after a little while, to knocking the wood together and listening for the type of knock, or just going ahead and getting a moisture reader and checking the wood that way. I've never stored wood inside the garage, so i'm not sure what kind of drying it can achieve in that setting. So I wont tell you that is your problem, but i keep my outside to dry that way. Just an option.

Fourth- When I open the doors to my insert, smoke comes into the room generally as well- I don't think my chimney is as tall as it should be, and this results in a substandard draft. How tall is your chimney? Its possible that the draft isn't appropriate.

Fifth- The other source of fuel for your fire, other than wood is the oxygen. Just make sure that the air vents are open and working properly. The unit is designed to work with its doors closed, and since an open hearth results in a net heat LOSS- i don't suggest removing the insert. I think its a much better idea, especially financially speaking to try to address your problems before removing anything.

Good luck with your insert and I hope at least some of what I suggested in here can help.

 

[droogie]

So we are going to contact a sweep and get the fireplace cleaned. Second, the make of the insert is Country Flame, I don't know the model. I contacted Country Flame but they didn't know the model either, since they were recently aquired the staff isn't familiar with older inserts. I'll let you guys know what the chimney sweep says about our setup.

I'm attaching a pic of the insert.

 

[begreen]

Could be a direct connect or even a slammer. I'm with your wife on this one, that ain't pretty. Put in a modern one with a great fire view, connected to a good liner. She will be happier and you both will be warmer. There should be no worries about smell with a good installation or about leaving the fire burning.

 

[KeepItNatural]

yeah... beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but that bad boy is pretty ugly.
I'm sort of a "if it aint broke, don't fix it kind of guy"- but... yours isn't working the way you want it, so... for all intents and purposes, it is broke.
If you really like the idea of burning wood- and trust me, i don't know you, but you like it, otherwise you wouldn't be on this forum- do a little thinking about what you'd like from your insert, make a list of things you want, and you're virtually guaranteed to find something out there which will fit the bill.
you have so many options too- there are sales, there's a tax rebate (not sure if it extends to inserts, but if they are efficient enough it could), plus there's craigs list. You can find something good out there.
keep with it. keep us posted. the more questions the better.

 

[par0thead151]

My wife and I recently purchased a home with a wood burning insert and we seem to be having issues using the insert properly. We tried to use the insert as a regular fireplace (leave the doors open and keep a fire going) but the problem is the house smells like a campfire. Not only that, but our clothes smell like we've been hanging out next to a camp fire. We have never noticed that with just regular fireplaces.

Next we tried (last night) to use the insert with the doors closed to heat the room and that seemed to be a failure. The fire would die fairly quickly as if there wasn't enough oxygen getting to the fire. When we open the doors, the fire came back to life. There are two vents which I believe are for oxygen intake that we had wide open and the fire still seemed to die.

Also, the insert comes equipped with a blower which blows out of of 4 vents. Two of the vents blow nice hot ait (when the fire actually stays lit) but the other two vents blow cold air, or more like luke warm air.

Any ideas on what we could be doing wrong? Is the type of wood an issue? We've never cleaned the chimney, could that be an issue? Do wood buring inserts need a tune up?

i would say you are closing the door before the fire is going strong, or you have wet wood.
try closing the door but not latching it shut.
once it looks like the bowels of hell, latch the door shut.

 

[rphurley]

So we are going to contact a sweep and get the fireplace cleaned. Second, the make of the insert is Country Flame, I don't know the model. I contacted Country Flame but they didn't know the model either, since they were recently aquired the staff isn't familiar with older inserts. I'll let you guys know what the chimney sweep says about our setup.

I'm attaching a pic of the insert.

Put a fork in that old SOB!

 

[tiber]

Part B is if you're dead set on keeping an insert and letting the wife have her "open fire ambience", there ARE inserts which will do it. Just not yours. In fact I'm not even sure WHAT that is. The requirement is an 8" round flue (this is almost universal for any "open burning") and that's actually pretty hard to find in newer houses.

The compromise I had to make with my wife is we keep our open fireplace but we're putting a stove in the living room. This is the summer project. It works out better anyway since the "fireplace room" is on one side of the house and it's only about half the size of the living room with smallish doors. The living room has double-wide french doors to both the foyer (stairs) and dining room, so it's a better location anyway.

 

[Pagey]

If I were intent on achieving a significant portion of my heating with wood, I would consider replacing that insert with a modern, EPA certified appliance that qualifies for the energy tax credit. Line the chimney top to bottom with an insulated stainless steel liner while you're at it. If you're in the market, now is a good time with the tax credit.

If you wish to continue to use the current appliance, definitely have a sweep out. It may be that you have a "slammer" install, which means you're basically venting directly into the masonry chimney with no stainless liner. Many masonry flues have such a large effective diameter that draft is impeded. Or, even if it is lined properly, you have enough creosote buildup that your draft could be impeded.

In any event, safety first. Have a certified sweep inspect your current install.

 

[tickbitty]

I am way in the minority here I know, but I don't think that stove looks that bad. If you google country flame something pretty similar comes up with double doors that is called their "inglenook fireplace" this looks like a cross between that and their single-door inserts. The glass appears to be pretty clear and not creosoted up, and there's a thermometer stuck on the front of it already, which denotes possible "responsible" use by the former owner. If you get a sweep in they can tell you whether you have a liner in the chimney and what all your setup is. That may not be a bad stove and MIGHT even be an EPA one. If it's a safe hookup and your sweep gives you the go ahead and can show you maybe how to operate the air and etc, get some good DRY wood and give it a try.

I theoretically like a fireplace for "ambiance" but in reality since we moved into this house four and a half years ago, we maybe used it twice. Since we put the woodstove insert in a month ago we have used it every day and can't beat the glass doors and heat for real ambiance, it's got the fireplace beat in every which way. So maybe that stove will actually work for you, or maybe just be your starter stove before you decide on a new one! Good luck!