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Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Kruegerw, Jul 30, 2012.
That's been sitting on top of the stove warming up so you won't get the thermal shock???
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i like where this thread is going. seems they could easily make something that slides in their for a pizza or calzone or something. lodge cast iron makes a pizza "stone" out of cast iron. i had heard rumor woodstock may be making a oven that sits on top of the stove, but that is only rumor. i asked. ha. imagine baking a pizza during a snow storm with no power with a nice home brewed beer to boot, and house at 70+. thats living!
machria, you are going to love your progress hybrid after that heatilator!! let us know what you think. take care
or your new stove is telling you her name.
(BK has Alien Technology®. WS has Elfin Magic™.)
Me too!! I WILL make pizze IN the progress! It's just a matter of how...
Yep, should be VERY easy. I'm really suprised it has not been done already!?#$?
So are you saying you asked woodstock, and they said no, it was just a rumor?
THAT IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! There is a place in Killington VT, Outback Pizza that has a real, big wood fired pizza masonry oven. They make some of the best pizza on the planet! I've driven 5 or 6 hours up to Killington for a slice of that pizza, no kidding!
First, Make/get a Pizza shoval that is about 8 3/4" wide by 16" long, with a 24" long handle. That will allow it to pull in and out pizza's thru the 9" wide door:
Then get/make a Cast Iron flat pizza stone that is about 12" wide by 16" long that just sits on the front andirons, and something in the back to hold it up. You can turn it a bit to get it to fit thru the door and place it on the mounts inside. Now you can mae an 8" by 14" pizza and easily slide it in and out!
I can already taste it! I hope somebody at Woodstock is reading this! Make sure this ships with my stove in Dec!
You gonna make 6" pizzas? 4" of sauce and cheese with a 1" crust all 'round? Hardly sounds worth it.
I do believe he was suggesting an 8" wide by 14" long pizza so that would be 6" of sauce and cheese and ?? with the 1" crust you suggest - leaves about 1/2" clearance on both sides to pull it out the door. Hey - I get the point, but you know if you are determined to have it that way...
Still, I think I'd like to see a good oven to go on top instead - could have a wider opening and allow baking of bread too. Stone sides and top, perhaps a metal door in front to make it easier/lighter to open and close. Take the normal stones off the top so it is just the cooktop, then put the stone oven on there, place a rack inside and with the cooktop running 500*+ that would bake pizzas and bread mighty nice.
Exactly. An 8" by 14" pizza is a full size pizza. I have to dig up some pics of the way I make pizza, similar to "Outback" in VT. Roll out a thin dough, spread some sauce on it, then pile 6" high fresh spinich (not frozen or cooked, fresh chopped!), then add lots of minced Garlic, onions and black olives, key word: LOTS, then top with motz and then grate some Asiago cheese on top. Now slide it in for a few minutes. The big 6 or 7" pile of spinach and cheese all "melts" down to 1/2" thick, and the crust gets crispy with a wood smoke flavor. SOMEBODY GET ME A SLICE NOW! Trust me when I tell ya, it WILL be worth it!! The ideal temp for making pizza is VERY HOT. 810 degrees to be exact. Hotter is even better...so the stove with some coals going would be perfect.
That's also a great idea, but you won't get a smoke flavor or hot enough (810+) for really good pizza.
History channel did a good documentary on pizza, namely NY style vs. that Chicago deep dish crap. Interviewing all the best shops around NY and Philly, they asked them what temp they ran their ovens at, and no two agreed. Various shops, all considered the best in their neighborhood, quoted temps from 400F to 1000F.
I saw that. those folks didn't know what they were talking about! 810!
How bout this, remove the cook top, place a cast/stone oven on top fitted to the existing gasket, open the bypass for smoked flavor, close bypass for regular baking, temp control using damper to control airflow around baking chamber. Opening and closing the stove door could cause thermal shock to the cat.
i emailed woodstock, the oven for the stove top was rumor. that lodge griddle could have potential i think.
We will need Woodstock to make something to hold the back side of the griddle. The front will rest on the andirons, so we need something in the back the same height. Anyone know know iron worker?
Lets start a rumor about the new Woodstock Progress Pizza Rack accessory!
VERY nice find! And good timing, Woodstock called me yesterday with an early Xmas gift, my stove is done and shipping! The last few pieces of slate on my hearth are being cut and put on tomorrow and Friday, so all I have to do now is wait a few days to receive the Progress, and let the thinset and grout cure! Can't wait to fire it up!
Does anyone know if Woodstock finished the design on the model PHPSS yet? I forgot to ask on the phone call...... Yeah, you know, the "Progress Hybrid Pizza Stone System which comes complete with:
- The 12" wide by 15" long Woodstock Pizza Soapstone
- The rear andirons pizza stone support (so the stone can lay on the front and rear andirons suspended above the hot coal bed).
- The aluminum Pizza shoval that fits perfectly horizontially through the Progress Hyrbrid door, with 24" handle
I KNOW it's either done, or just about done by now, right?
I'll supply the recipe book free of charge for the Woodstock Hybrid Wood Fired Pizza!
Ok, question: Which is better, the Back or Top vent? I can go either way on my install, which one performs better?
Top vent is usually best for a good draft. But, if you don't have any other bends combined with good chimney height, it doesn't matter.
The Encore is rear vented and then straight up about 28'. Drafts great. The 30 is top vented with no bends and 18'. It drafts just fine. The Defiant is top vented, has two 45 bends and then a 90. It drafts very well, and I suspect the 28' high chimney may lead me to put in a pipe damper at some point to control the burn a bit better.
Well, my chimney is 12' of tripple wall stainless (10' of that inside an enclosed chase, 2' out top of chase above roof), then it will be 3' of stove pipe to the stove. So stove top to the cap is exactly 15'. The cap is a weather/wind cap.
If I rear vent, it will come out of stove bend 90 and go straight up and out.
If I Top vent, it will come out of stove, bend slightly (~30?) toward the back, and then bend slightly back forward (30?) to straighten it out and again straight up the rest of the way.
So which way to go?
Thank you everyone for this long thread. I think it has swayed me from a BK to a PH. Not only do I want high efficiency but I actually want to watch a beautiful fire (apparently unlike some BK folks whose primary focus is long cat burns). A 30 hour long burn time of a BK where you don't see any flame for the vast majority of that time doesn't sound like what my family would want out of a stove. Currently we have a traditional fireplace (a metal free standing open fireplace with no doors) so it's very inefficient, smoky at times, but it produces a big beautiful fire and lots of radiant heat for the short couple of hours it's lit. Then of course all the wood is used up and it stinks up the house especially on a windy day once a downdraft begins. So I want to switch to a woodstove for woodstove benefits but I also still want to watch a beautiful fire with no dirty black glass. From what I read, BK's usually get dirty glass. I have some questions:
1. Let's say you load up your PH and it burns out in 12 hours (and you don't add more fuel). How many of those 12 hours do you have a big fire / visible flames?
2. Why are some people saying they want to get rid of the secondary fire? Isn't that supposed to be a big attraction of a non-cat stove, to see a beautful rolling flame?
3. Hearth Pads. The Woodstock website sells them for $600. Wow! I've done alot of tile work in my bathrooms, rebuilding them from scratch. In my head, I estimate the materials cost for a 4'x5' pad might run around $100-$150, depending on the stone or tile quality you go with. It would also be simple to build (I think). So why the $600 price?
4. Is there a "hearth pad builders guide" thread on hearth.com or external website that gives specs to follow so I can follow code and know what type of materials are suggested/recommended/allowed? Especially so it can hold the heavy weight of a PH and not crack.
The previous homeowner put large black tiles cemented directly to my wood floor so I have a pad now, but it's not built very well so I plan on putting another pad on top of this one (I'll never be able to tear up these tiles without destroying the wood floor underneath), hence my pad building questions. I tried searching the forums but I didn't find anything useful. So pardon my questions if the answer is already posted elsewhere, a kind redirect link would be most helpful if you know it.
I think you've made a good choice. One thing that concerns me is your comment about your current stove stinking. What is your chimney situation? Don't forget, this is the most important thing with any stove. Pay lots of attention to getting that right. Other questions, I'll try to answer:
1. This is extremely variable but I'll give it a shot. In my experience, if you're going to burn through a full load in 12 hours you're going to get lots of nice flame. How much all depends on your draft setting. You can vary it from blow-torch style, gates of hell secondaries to more lazy, ghost like secondaries. If you really load full, you're likely to get pretty strong secondaries for a while and they will eventually become the more lazy style. I'd say you could plan on 2 or 3 hours of continuous flames of some kind. After that, your box may go dark for a bit only to come back to life with more flames for a bit. This switching back and forth can last several more hours. At some point, you're going to not have flames. This non-flame period will likely consist of the majority of the 12 hours but it would in any stove.
2. Some folks care most about how long a stove can possibly burn. Being that there is only so much energy in a load of wood, this will matter more to some than others depending on house size, insulation, stove size, etc. With the Progress, I used to really try to limit the secondaries because I thought I'd be extending my burn times. Really, now I engage the cat hotter and let the secondaries kick off. They're awesome to watch and I would rather reload after 12 hours than 14 or 16 or 20 anyway. Simply answer to your question is yes, it is a big attraction that I enjoy very much.
3. I'm not sure why they're so expensive and I've never really seen them so I don't even know if they're nice. I will say I put probably $300 and 16 hours into my hearth so I could see where a retailer would be charging that. You absolutely need another pad. The one you have does not have sufficient R-value for the Progress. You need 0.5" of Durock Nextgen at a minimum under your tile. Refer to the manual for requirements.
4. Download the manual off Woodstock's website. That will have the requirements for size, clearances, and R-value. Otherwise, just use good construction practices. I'm sure you could find lots of posts on hearth builds here and elsewhere. In my opinion, the heavy weight of the Progress is not a special consideration for the hearth itself (assuming proper structural floor support). Mine is just Durock and tile over my subfloor. Do check that your floor will support the weight, but if you are unsure with the Progress you should be unsure with any stove as you would want more than a couple hundred pounds of safety factor.
Not sure where your gettign your materials, but I just re-did my hearth, and although I did the all above it as well,it was MUCH more than $600. $1,500 for labor for the 1/2 slate install (included the thinset and Durarock for walls and hearth). $950 for 14 boxes of Silver slate 1/2" stone/tile, $300 to bullnose 3 or 4 boxes of it, about $200 of lumber (2x4's, 3/4" plywood, durarock...). Wish I could have bought one for $600!
A lot of this is repetative after Waulie's rather complete answer, just slightly diffferent perspective, perhaps.
You will seldom sit in front of the stove for 12 hours watching the flames. I frequently have the flames go out completely when I close the bypass to engage the cat, which is often about ten minutes after loading. Then suddenly the fire will flame up and burn beautifully. This may last for hours, or shift back and forth from glowing coals to wisping ghostly cat flames that beautifully dance around the firebox, to rolling secondaries igniting at the air holes on the top, to just plain active flames. When the stove was new, I played around with it a lot, and tried all sorts of things, had a lot of fun. Now I just heat my home, so twice a day take about ten minutes to get a new load going, then don't think about it again until the dog barks once or twice to tell me the stove is cooling down. Invariably that is 12+ hours later, and it is time for a reload. Many times during a burn I or others will sit in front of the fire and talk, read, use the computer, have a hot drink, talk on the phone. Invariably there will be a nice fireshow of one sort or another to enjoy.
The great thing about the PH is that if you want a stunning display you can simply open the air a bit at any time in the burn, and keep it that way as long as you want to enjoy the spectacular show, then dial it back and go about your business, knowing the stove will calm right down. Even when I am at a stage where there are simply lots of coals in the firebox, and this may well be 10-12 or more hours into the burn cycle, if I open the air I get active flames again.
Secondary vs cat flames: Personally, I think the cat flames are more spectacular...they are rather like the Northern Lights, dancing all around the firebox. They can be stunning, and are ever-changing. The secondaries are much more consistent and predictable, and generally involve much more fire. For that reason, people who heat solely with their stove often try to limit the secondary burn as much as possible, and encourage the cat burn, because the wood releases its BTUs more slowly and consistently, and in this stage this stove is capable of producing enough heat to be the sole heat source for a very large well insulated home in even the coldest climates, as long as you can maintain air movement to the various parts of the home. I personally believe that maintaining a slower burn results in less heat loss up the chimney, but i don't know if others agree with me about that. On the slowest burn, with air totally closed, secondary air still enters the stove, and you still do get occasional, and sometimes rather protracted, secondary burn. The stove switches on its own between secondary and cat burn, and sometimes has both simultaneously, depending on which is more efficient at any given point in the burn. The trick to being able to maintain the long slow burns is to use larger splits....I generally use splits that just fit through the stove door.
I bought a blue hearthpad from Woodstock about 7 or 8 years ago when I bought my Fireview. I am now using the same pad for my PH. It is very attractive, looks new, and was well worth what i paid for it. Woodstock took care to see that the PH hearth pad requirement was such that those of us with Fireview hearth pads could use the same pad. That took some tweaking on their part, but, typically, they made the effort. The pad actually works better for the PH, in my opinion. Because the PH can be set closer to the wall, there is more hearth protection in front of the window, and the wood floor does not get as hot as it did with the Fireview, I always keep a sheepskin rug over the front lip of the hearth pad and over the wood floor to the rug beyond, for peace of mind and extra heat protection for the floor...
For me, a good part of the wood burning experience is loving my stove. That's why I had a Fireview for years, even though it didn't provide enough heat for my large home. I am so thankful Woodstock designed and built this great PH stove for those of us with larger and/or challenging homes to heat. It provides amazing heat from a very reasonable amount of wood, is beautiful, and provides beautiful flames which are viewed through a large, clear window.
Welcome to the world of Woodstock, and may you enjoy your soon-to-be-acquired stove in good health for years to come.
Well exlplained Rideau! Now that I am an expert in this, since I've been burning the PH for over 24 hours now I'd say that is dead on for what I have seen so far. Amazing control of the flames.
Question for Rideau, how do see the flames from the cat? Aren't the cat flames up in the cat, hidden in the top...? I assumed you could not see them.
Question for all, how hot do your walls get behind the stove? Especially if you have a corner install. I'm noticing significant heat on the wall just below the top of the stove (the 3rd tile up, 12" tiles), directly off the top corner of the stove on the wall, which is 12 1/2" away. The specs say 12". Just that one tile on both sides seems a bit hot.