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Yet ANOTHER hearthboard/install thread....

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by Drumaz, Sep 8, 2008.

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  1. Drumaz

    Drumaz Member

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    Sorry for another one of these threads. I've read just about all of the hearth threads on this forum in hopes of not having to post another.. Here it goes :
    I have a Jotul F600
    #1) From what I understand (thanks to BG) I don't need much in the way of floor protection. There's no specific R Value listed in the manual. Thoughts?
    #2) Please see pics attached. I taped out a 48"x48" board and the cardboard in the middle is the footprint of the stove.
    Issue #1 is the baseboard heater.. If I fabricate my own board I can just cut around it correct? If I buy a board, what are my options??
    issue #2 is clearances. As it lays now, all the clearances seem ok although the actual size of the board is smaller than the one listed in the manual. Is this ok to do? i'm thinking that some extra wall protection might be in order as well..

    I'm having a pre-fab installed on the left hand wall. All the materials are in so the chimney co is ready to go. We've been going back and forth about floor and the possibility of wall protection. They were talking to me about a product called R-CO. I guess they can custom cut it to go around the baseboard and possibly around the molding for the window.

    Oh yeah, Did I mention the dollars are adding up fast too!!! I need some advice. I know I can cut my cost way down if I build my own hearth but I have a newborn son and time/energy are at an all time low at my house!! Thank you!

    Attached Files:

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  2. offroadaudio

    offroadaudio New Member

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    I'll comment o the baseboard and get you bumped as well.
    If it was my job, I would move the Baseboard to the left enough to clear the hearth. Do you have enough room for this?
    It should be very simple - cut the molding on the left the amount you need to move it, then move the heater and nail the molding back in place on the right, add caulk / paint.
  3. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    Disclaimer: I am not an expert at woodburning, hearth-building or child-rearing . . . but your pics and situation is very similar to what I just went through (well most everything except for the new-born son.)

    Like you I went with a Jotul (Oslo though) and a corner install . . . and just like you I marked out an area on the floor and made a cardboard cut-out that I labeled "Oslo" to help me determine sizes, clearances, issues, etc. (I am very much a visual learner). This really helped me get an idea of the dimensions and any concerns I might have (i.e. the baseboard heater . . . a "problem" both you and I share). Of course, my wife just thought I was nuts as I would spend countless minutes staring into the corner at my non-existent hearth and cardboard cut-out.

    Now I can't speak to the hearth protection of the F600, but I do know the Oslo only requires ember protection which could in fact be a piece of sheet metal . . . although there is no way my wife would even consider this. Instead I used some plywood to build up a short base and topped it off with a 1/2 inch of Durock and slate (pics will eventually follow once I get the whole project completed.) While I suppose I could have just used the slate I wanted the additional R value protection since . . .

    a) it would give me a better piece of mind -- while a single layer of Durock doesn't offer a lot of R value it offers enough. As one of our Fire Inspectors says . . . Manufacturer listings and Fire Codes usually only offer the minimal requirements -- there's nothing stopping you from taking a few extra steps for extra protection

    b) the Durock would offer me a good base for the slate (or tile) . . . and it offered the R value once again

    c) having Durock qualifies as listed floor protection according to our Inspector here in the City so I figured it would be a good idea to add it just in case my small town FD Inspector is a stickler about having listed floor protection (rather than not having it and then having to add it afterwards for some odd reason)

    d) it would be wicked embarassing to have a firefighter's house burn down so once again it comes back to (a) and the whole peace of mind thing


    As for the size of the hearth and radiator . . . I personally opted to go a bit bigger than necessary. The manual only listed the required square/rectangle sizes for a conventional (non-corner) install so I based my size requirements on the clearance requirements (which were in fact quite low) . . . and then using a hearth manufacturer's specs went with the corner hearth that was one size larger (figuring it would give me some lee-way in placing the stove and more space up front.)

    As mentioned earlier I had to deal with the baseboard heater . . . I ended up having to notch the hearth 2 or 3 inches in one 12 foot section . . . not a real issue in my opinion as this was past the clearance requirements.

    A few items of note:

    1) I've never done any sort of stone/tiling work before . . . and found that thanks in no small part to the many detailed directions here that this was actually a pretty easy project and I'm a complete idiot (I can usually manage to break or ruin nearly any type of home repair/construction project)

    2) My friends helped me move the stove on to the hearth yesterday . . . and one was convinced I needed wall protection since the stove was about 13 inches away from the wall. Ironically I've got the rear heat shield which in theory should allow me to place the stove even closer if I so desire . . . but once again . . . it comes back to (A) for me so the heat shield will stay on, but I'll keep the stove the few extra inches away from the walls -- even if my one friend is convinced the stove is too close to the wall
  4. gpcollen1

    gpcollen1 Minister of Fire

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    Is that an electric baseboard? If it is, is the electrical connection on the left end, opposite where your stove is going to go? If it is, you can just get a shorter heater and replace the one you have. Sure you'll need some paint and trim but what the heck...
  5. Drumaz

    Drumaz Member

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    Thanks for the reply... I looked into moving it but the copper pipe goes right down into the floor there at the end of the heater. I'd have to drain the system, cut the pipe, cut the baseboard and relocate. i'm no plumber either!!
  6. Drumaz

    Drumaz Member

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    Hot water...
  7. Drumaz

    Drumaz Member

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    Two things really hit home with your post... I've learned real fast I'm no expert on child bearing either!! Holy Cow!!

    The other is that I too ruin everything i touch so I've been a little gun-shy about building something that could possibly save my house from burning down. I'm the first guy to jump in and get dirty but then have to call a pro halfway thru the job because I got stuck or don't have the right tools.

    I'd like to see some pics of your install.. I think I 'm going to have to suck it up and try to build something....

    Tile on top of Durock on top of Plywood sound like it would be enough? Speaking to tile, is there a specific material to use or to stay away from? It needs to be pretty strong right? Thanks for the replies
  8. N/A N/A

    N/A N/A New Member

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    Speaking to tile, is there a specific material to use or to stay away from? It needs to be pretty strong right? Thanks for the replies[/quote]


    I just put tile over Durock for my new stove. I went with the porcelain tile rather than the ceramic because it is thicker and stronger. Also dont use the mastic stuff to set the tile in. Its more like a glue. Stick with the thin-set mortar thats more of a cement. I have had two break in fires with my new stove, tile floor and wall protection that I put up. Have not had any issues seams to work good.
  9. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    Again . . . remember . . . I'm no expert . . . although I did stay at a Motel 6 the other day . . . for what that's worth. :)

    Like you . . . I have hot water baseboard and I am a terrible plumber so I wasn't about to move the baseboard unless absolutely necessary . . . and even then I would call in a plumber.

    Next . . . You can do it . . . trust me on this one . . . once you build your own hearth and look down at it you will truly be amazed . . . and maybe even inspired to try to tackle tiling your kitchen floor even! :) As I said . . . I'm no great DIYer, but by following the directions here at hearth.com (there's a fantastic wiki article on how to build a hearth) you will have the knowledge and know-how on how to build a great-looking and safe hearth at a fraction of the cost of buying a pre-fab one which may not suit your needs (i.e. the radiator.)

    As for your specific questions . . . I went with two layers of 1/2 inch plywood nailed (ring set nails for flooring) and screwed together. I used a liberal amount of nails to bind them together. I then used thinset with a latex added (Flexibond) and Durock screws to secure the 1/2 inch Durock to the plywood base and then after this set up I used 1/4 inch random sized slate since I had been given two boxes of slate for free a number of years ago. If I was to go with tile I would go with porcelain tiles (based on the recommendations here -- folks say it's much harder than ceramic tile.)

    I'll try to get a pic or two tonight of my set-up so far . . . as long as you realize it's still a work in progress (i.e. I haven't painted the wall behind the stove, the chimney isn't set up, the trim board on the hearth isn't done yet and we haven't put in the wood floor yet (all in good time! :)) It isn't perfect by any means . . . but I had a good friend say that he thought the hearth was a pre-fab one when he saw it for the first time (a good sign) and the most important thing to me is that my wife says it looks good.

  10. coreystaf

    coreystaf New Member

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    I wanted to add a few points to the thread if its ok:

    1) The stove requires 16"? of floor protection in front of the stove, but the front edge of the board really needs to be as wide as the stove itself, otherwise, the whole stove doesn't havea full 16" clearance. check that out, it looks by your markings that you might have to make the front cut off just a bit wider, an inspector might want you to

    2) The F600 has a side-load door and I know that the manufacturer requires much more clearance on the right hand side, unless you intend to bolt the side-loader shut with their special kit.

    3) Don't feel uncomfortable with the clearances given, if you are at the minimum acceptable clearance, it will be safe, they test the h**l out of the stove to insure their listed clearances won't burn a house down.
  11. Arlo.

    Arlo. Member

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    I went through this last year, heres the link to my f600 install

    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/11111/

    Granted mine is top loader, no side door and a CAT model.

    Regardless if there is no R value for the pad, believe me, it gets warm under there and for myself I can load it up and let it burn while Im at work wihtout a worry! I would build a hearth if I was you, regardless if you need one. Your house is not something you want to take a chance on. Just my 2 cents

    PS get the rear heat shield and double wall interior black pipe!

    hope this helps and have fun with your new Stove...congrats!
  12. Drumaz

    Drumaz Member

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    Ario - Install looks great. Thanks for all the input from everyone. Very valuable info!!!!

    I've decided to construct my own hearth. I'll post pics for sure. Should be interesting... The chimney company is ready so they are waitng on me... no pressure. We (my wife...) decided the stove should be sideways instead of kitty corner too. I'll post new pics of the layout. The mian reason is the side load. It will be MUCH easier for her (me...) to load the stove.
  13. Arlo

    Arlo New Member

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    Glad the info helped. I forgot which email I used so I had to sign in under arlo. not ARLO.

    Have fun with it and you will love the Jotul. We are putting the house on the market next spring and I am getting a smaller new stove to replace it because I'm taking this one with me !!

    just a heads up, the air lever sticks on some of them, dont worry, a littel wd40 (aka fishoil) will fix her up.
  14. Drumaz

    Drumaz Member

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    i'd take the stove too. Talk about a score!!

    p.s. -- Love the Whirligigs Arlo ..
  15. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    Great . . . I think you'll be quite pleased with yourself when you're finished. It will look good, be cheaper than the pre-fabs and you'll have the satisfaction and pride of having done it yourself. I did a quick search for the thread that really helped me out . . . basically a step-by-step how-to-build-a-hearth thread . . . but for some reason I couldn't find it very readily.

    We considered going with a sideways-mount, but due to the layout of the house had to co with the corner install . . . which looks good and should throw heat where we need it . . . but on the flip side we had to give up the side door which was a drawback.

    Since you asked . . . here are some pics of my hearth so far (as I said we're hoping to replace the carpet with hardwood flooring, this needs trim around the edges, trim along the wall, a chimney for the stove, etc.) . . . it should give you an idea of how a complete construction-challenged individual like me can make something half decent if he is patient and follows directions.

    Attached Files:

  16. Arlo

    Arlo New Member

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    Thanks, it was a good score indeed and thanks for the compliments on my whirligigs.
  17. Valhalla

    Valhalla Minister of Fire

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    There are always hearth pad solutions. Just plan the area and measure the minimum distances very carefully. Remember that safety is always first.
  18. Arlo

    Arlo New Member

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    nice! Perfect stove for Bangor. !!!! Me and the wife just got back form Schoodic penisula... Ocean Wood ... if you know where that is.
  19. firefighterjake

    firefighterjake Minister of Fire

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    Actually the stove is in the bustling metropolis of Unity (home to the Commonground Fair and Unity College) . . . I only work in Bangor.

    Yup . . . most folks know where the Schoodic Peninsula is . . . a part of Acadia that is very impressive and yet a lot of folks don't make the ride out to that section of the park.
  20. Drumaz

    Drumaz Member

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    Made some adjustments.... Going sideways instead of kitty corner.

    Attached Files:

  21. Elfin

    Elfin New Member

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    You're getting good advice here on building your pad, but just a couple things to add...

    Don't just get porcelain tile, as some of it is cheap and chips very easily. Get "solid-bodied" porcelain tile, in a commercial variety if possible. It takes more care to cut on a wetsaw, but I didn't find it to be unworkable in the least. And is the strongest thing you can buy. This particular one is what I used, it comes in a ton of colors and both in polished and unpolished varieties. http://www.unitedtile.com/.docs/pg/10677

    Make sure the footprint of your stove is extremely solid underneath where the four legs will go. If you are putting plywood directly on the floor you'll be fine, but if you are building a frame underneath it really pay attention to where the weight of the stove will sit.

    Try to get ahold of Hardibacker concrete board instead of Durock or Wonderboard... it's SOOOO much easier to score, snap and work with.

    The biggest consideration I had in building my pad was the outside combustion air, which went through the floor. Make sure you plan ahead on this one, if you are doing the same! I configured my tile pattern so I wouldn't have to cut a hole in the middle of a tile, otherwise this would have been a real ordeal.
  22. Elfin

    Elfin New Member

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  23. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    One note, Hardibacker is easier to work with, but I think it's not approved for hearth or high-temp use because it has cellulose fiber added.

    USG Durock and I believe Wonderboard pure cement backerboard are approved for this use. Use the pure cement product and not the lightweight versions of these products which have styrofoam balls added to them.
  24. Elfin

    Elfin New Member

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    Interesting, BeGreen. It does have cellulose fiber in it, but I hadn't heard this before. I don't think Hardibacker has styrofoam in it, however... are you thinking of Wediboard or Ezboard? Those two products do contain styrofoam. Hardibacker is primarily concrete, and although slightly lighter than Durock or Wonderboard, it is not all that lightweight.
  25. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Yes, that's correct. The Hardibacker product is the one with cellulose added. It lightens the product and makes it easier to work with. Then, there are lightweight versions of Durock and I think Wonderboard. It's in these lightweight versions that a filler like styrofoam are added. They also are not suitable for hearth applications.

    Hardibacker may not be not such a big deal with a stove that is cool underneath and only requires an ember barrier. But for stoves that require good insulation in their hearth, my understanding is that only a pure cement board product should be used for a backerboard or for insulation build up.
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