65 % of americans not preparing for retirement.

[Seasoned Oak]

What do you mean by unearned income long ago?

Kind of a misnomer. Income earned from sources other than a job or salary are sometimes called unearned although they are of course earned. Would include Interest,Dividends,capitol gains ect. To put it simply ,the dividend checks surpassed the paychecks a long time ago.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

.Most kids today have no idea of what work is and plan on starting at the top making $100k /yr. .

I try to teach my kids how to earn and save.They can learn easy enough on their own how to spend. It takes some guidance ,not all kids get that. I think the whole apple cart is upside down, and will correct itself eventually but it wont be pretty. Probably not in my lifetime though. 100k a year? Not in small town America unless your doing something really different.

 

[sportbikerider78]

I think we can all agree on one thing. People are really stupid! They buy more house than they can afford. They buy new cars when they should buy used. They rack up high interest credit cards on stupid stuff like clothes and phones. They live like they will always be working.

I'm always amazed when I talk to some people with good dual incomes taking in close to $200k. They own nothing! The bank owns them.

America was built on personal responsibility. We are responsible for ourselves and only when you really take care of yourself/family can you truely gain the financial means to help others who have had hardships and bad luck.

Americans need to take responsibility for their retirement just like they need to for their home budgets. If they don't, don't expect to retire. Which is really not the end of the world. Don't plan..don't get to retire.

I plan and save and budget. I also don't factor SS into the retirement equation anywhere. I have accepted the fact that it was theft my entire life and it may completely be taken from me. I just wish this system wasn't forced on us and we were allowed to plan the way we should be.

The worst part about SS is that it gives many who are bad at math and common sense an artificial safety net as if their retirement is taken care of. If it didn't exist at all, maybe people would wake up a bit more.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Basically starve the government for cash by cutting revenues from taxes and starving the IRS from resources to collect. At some point very soon the choice will need to be made between the young and the old to cut the social contract to keep basic services running. The only reason the government is functioning currently is China and the rest of the world is buying our bonds and the interest rates are low enough that the interest payments are killing the US. The latest tax cut is just the latest version of this and already the conservatives are screaming that the deficit they voted for will mean that big cuts in entitlements have to be made.

The problem is government spending not tax collection. Tax collection (federal govt revenue) has gone up every year for a very long time. There is no limit to how much the government can spend, as evidenced by our $20T+ debt.

Democrats and Republicans alike agree on a few things in congress... spending and war. So we always get more spending and more war. They even bundle it all together in omnibus bill so they don't have to even take a stand on any one issue. Just all agree for more of the same.

Whenever they talk about cuts in spending, they are talking about cutting the increase in spending, not the spending itself. All smoke and mirrors.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Americans need to take responsibility for their retirement just like they need to for their home budgets. If they don't, don't expect to retire. Which is really not the end of the world. Don't plan..don't get to retire.
.

This would work in theory but in practice is a bit messy. We get to the point where we cant work anymore but may live another 10 or 20 years that way. I was strong as a bull and worked hard my whole life and spent wisely and invested. Never dreamed id be disabled at 61 yrs old not able to work anymore. I keep thinking what do people do who have NOT planned for this and have NO means of support other than their own labor. Its simple, the burden falls on the ones who can still work and of course more borrowed money that will never be repaid. SS is at the very least something we PAY for not something handed to us for nothing and its a least a base income of sustainability for seniors. Without it all that's left is social services for most.

 

[rowerwet]

Read a poll that found the snowflake generation isn't bothering to save because they believe the whole system of banks and possibly even capitalism will be gone by the time they grow up

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Read a poll that found the snowflake generation isn't bothering to save because they believe the whole system of banks and possibly even capitalism will be gone by the time they grow up

The ones who don't have a plan are the ones who need SS the most. SS is the default plan but should be better funded to provide a living minimum subsistence without having to fall back on social services. SS is messed up though with some required to have 40 working credits to qualify and others needing NO credits at all. And getting the same benefit amount.

 

[sportbikerider78]

This would work in theory but in practice is a bit messy. We get to the point where we cant work anymore but may live another 10 or 20 years that way. I was strong as a bull and worked hard my whole life and spent wisely and invested. Never dreamed id be disabled at 61 yrs old not able to work anymore. I keep thinking what do people do who have NOT planned for this and have NO means of support other than their own labor. Its simple, the burden falls on the ones who can still work and of course more borrowed money that will never be repaid. SS is at the very least something we PAY for not something handed to us for nothing and its a least a base income of sustainability for seniors. Without it all that's left is social services for most.

Sorry you are having a hard time man. I'm sure that really stinks!!

I understand the system works that way, but how should it work?
Even in your case, if had a middle class income for most of your life and a decent return..you would have an extra million in the bank or much more if you hadn't been paying onto a system.

Hell..we could have a mandatory payroll deduction and it stays in a private fund for you that can't be pulled from till retirement. No government meddling at all and you can see your fund grow like a 401k.
I'd take a mandatory deduction that is held privately in a fund for me any day of the week over SS. Not perfect but much better!

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Hell..we could have a mandatory payroll deduction and it stays in a private fund for you that can't be pulled from till retirement. No government meddling at all and you can see your fund grow like a 401k.
I'd take a mandatory deduction that is held privately in a fund for me any day of the week over SS. Not perfect but much better!

The problem is not me or you or others that prepare. Its the millions that don't plan, thus putting the burden of those final years of support on the public at large. They must be forced to save and SS is just one way to do that
We already do have the option to do both. Most people get all their money back they paid in from SS in the first few years they start collecting. I know I will and ill be starting to collect in a few months, Iv been investing in alternative income sources my whole life which will provide the bulk of my support and I probably did as well as any 401k did. Plus if your chosen 401k contribution plan went south you would still have something to fall back on which is currently SS. What I don't like is the Govt raiding the ss fund and paying a paltry 2% or whatever back to the fund in exchange for squandering the funds. A much better return would be had from the stock market ,but then they (politicians)couldn't squander the money.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The radio this morning stated 8 out of 10 Americans lived paycheck to paycheck.


Sad, and I hope some start saving before kids/mortgage/life makes it harder to start.

 

[rowerwet]

I worked with guys like that, it wasn't that we have bad pay or jobs, they just blew it all on the latest smartphone model, traded in their cars for something newer every year, and had to have cable TV and Internet.
Meanwhile I bought a house and lived like I was poor to make extra payments on the house.
I drove the same car for ten years, never got cable, kept the same old cell phone, used dial up, but paid off the mortgage in ten years.
Now I can buy what I want, and am entirely debt free, with a good retirement plan.
Meanwhile, they've all bought houses and got married , and are struggling to keep it all together.
Pay check to paycheck isn't always because of poor wages, it is also about poor planning

 

[peakbagger]

I used to work in large pulp and paper manufacturing complex in rural area. For a rural area the folks made very good money with a high school diploma. There were a couple of prosperous car dealers for an area that had less than 20,000 people amongst a cluster of towns 4 towns. Also a couple of big boat, motor home, snow machine and ATV dealers. Most of the workers "bought" a new truck every three years and replaced their toys in about the same cycle. WIth a union contract there were lots of creative ways to get paid time and half over 40. We had a rule that folks had to go home for a minimum of 8 hours after working 18 and some folks complained about it as it cut their income (they slept on the job). Most of them usually leased a truck rather than buying it but they said they bought it to their buddies. These trucks were usually top of the line 4WD models.

It all came crashing down about 20 years ago when the majority of the pulp an paper market went offshore and the pulp mill shut down and was eventually torn down. Anyone with seniority bumped folks with less. I remember one individual that was laid off. The day after he got laid off, he went to bank and handed them the house keys, went to the credit union and handed them the boat keys, the motor home keys and the snowmobile keys, then went to the local furniture store and told them to come get the appliances and the furniture. He also gave away his dog to a neighbor and then moved his family at the end of the week out of the area. Every bit of his life was on credit. He wasn't the only one, the local credit union that had catered to the mill employees had to rent a lot to store all the toys that got handed back.

The pulp mill shutdown qualified as a Trade Act event due to unfair foreign competition. Folks who wanted to get retrained and move out of the area made out well but many didn't want to due to their age or lack of interest. The ones that could, put their wives to work and dropped out of the legal employment market and there were a fair share of divorces for those who didn't. Once the Trade Act benefits were over the disability lawyers moved in and many folks got declared disabled so they could get SS disability insurance. Its pretty well correlated that when a big rural employer closes down the number of disability filings goes up in the next few years.

The other thing that happened is one of the former employees who was always into pump and dump penny stock schemes when he worked there, got hired by Edwards Jones. He was trained and set up an office in town and got many of the former co-workers to hand over their 401ks for him to manage. He still has some real nice toys and nice house plus a camp on a lake and new cars.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

For a rural area the folks made very good money with a high school diploma. .

Ill bet there were a few, but painfully few, who invested and saved something, lived below their means and were not really devastated when the big employer shut down. Probably less than 5%.

 

[peakbagger]

The majority were graduates of the local catholic school system (taught in French no less). I dont think financial planning was taught. The "deal" that had been in place since the 1880s was that if you worked for the mill you had a good job for life. Along with the good jobs were smoking and drinking so they usually last many years past retirement age.

Many had pensions for half their career and SS. They made good money early in their career right out of high school so their early SS contributions were relatively high so they are better off than many folks as their monthly checks are going to be relatively high.

 

[firefighterjake]

I used to work in large pulp and paper manufacturing complex in rural area. For a rural area the folks made very good money with a high school diploma. There were a couple of prosperous car dealers for an area that had less than 20,000 people amongst a cluster of towns 4 towns. Also a couple of big boat, motor home, snow machine and ATV dealers. Most of the workers "bought" a new truck every three years and replaced their toys in about the same cycle. WIth a union contract there were lots of creative ways to get paid time and half over 40. We had a rule that folks had to go home for a minimum of 8 hours after working 18 and some folks complained about it as it cut their income (they slept on the job). Most of them usually leased a truck rather than buying it but they said they bought it to their buddies. These trucks were usually top of the line 4WD models.

It all came crashing down about 20 years ago when the majority of the pulp an paper market went offshore and the pulp mill shut down and was eventually torn down. Anyone with seniority bumped folks with less. I remember one individual that was laid off. The day after he got laid off, he went to bank and handed them the house keys, went to the credit union and handed them the boat keys, the motor home keys and the snowmobile keys, then went to the local furniture store and told them to come get the appliances and the furniture. He also gave away his dog to a neighbor and then moved his family at the end of the week out of the area. Every bit of his life was on credit. He wasn't the only one, the local credit union that had catered to the mill employees had to rent a lot to store all the toys that got handed back.

The pulp mill shutdown qualified as a Trade Act event due to unfair foreign competition. Folks who wanted to get retrained and move out of the area made out well but many didn't want to due to their age or lack of interest. The ones that could, put their wives to work and dropped out of the legal employment market and there were a fair share of divorces for those who didn't. Once the Trade Act benefits were over the disability lawyers moved in and many folks got declared disabled so they could get SS disability insurance. Its pretty well correlated that when a big rural employer closes down the number of disability filings goes up in the next few years.

The other thing that happened is one of the former employees who was always into pump and dump penny stock schemes when he worked there, got hired by Edwards Jones. He was trained and set up an office in town and got many of the former co-workers to hand over their 401ks for him to manage. He still has some real nice toys and nice house plus a camp on a lake and new cars.

Sounds a lot like some of the mill towns here in Maine . . . I vividly remember back in the 1980s going through Millinocket and Medway and seeing homes with the nice trucks, sports cars, boats, ATVs, etc. and thinking those guys had it all figured out. Go through the town now and it's a whole other scene with many homes being sold at wicked low prices and folks with the brand new toys are few and far between.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

You can also go overboard with the whole frugal, saving thing. We have too enjoy life along the way. A little balance always helps. So little time left,use it wisely. Time and health is quickly becoming more valuable than anything else.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Some towns only exist because a big employer moved in and built the town. When the plant goes belly up,,,time to move. Same with all those super broke coal towns in WV. They are super poor. I get that they grew up there and know nothing else, but life can be rough.
Employment is there for people willing to stay off drugs and come to work every day.

I know a guy that is a south african. He moved here with the clothes on his back in his late teens. Now he is a mechanical engineer, works 8-5 there, then goes to his restaurant..which he owns.

I'm probabally a lot like you guys. I work hard. Save. Spend sparingly but I do splurge once and a while on things that make sense.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I think there is a way of saving that most don't take advantage of... gardening.

A 1 dollar package of beans will provide hundreds of pounds of beans.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I think there is a way of saving that most don't take advantage of... gardening.
A 1 dollar package of beans will provide hundreds of pounds of beans.

A lot of gas too

 

[sportbikerider78]

I think there is a way of saving that most don't take advantage of... gardening.

A 1 dollar package of beans will provide hundreds of pounds of beans.

But a hundred lbs of beans costs, what? 200-300 bucks and takes how many hrs to cultivate?

I don't think gardening saves money at all, unless you have lots of time.

 

[peakbagger]

I am not sure if its the gardening as much as its the lifestyle that frequently goes with it. The time versus cost argument crops up all the time. The same argument could be and is made for burning firewood . I think most gardeners do it as much for a hobby as a practical way to grow their own food. In general most folks I know that grow veggie gardens dont tend to be keep up with the Jones type.

I like to pick wild blueberries, I have a favorite mountain over in Maine that I like to go pick them at. (not my blog but good pictures https://1happyhiker.blogspot.com/2012/10/rumford-whitecap-in-technicolor.html ). I probably burn $10 of gas to drive over and back and it takes me about 8 hours to pick tow or three gallons. I have to hike up the mountain, that takes about an hour and back down again. Its a nice day out with great views. I have them with my bowl of cereal most days usually until spring before I run out (I am getting close to running out as I write this). Yes they are wild and "organic" but once I pick them I have to spend few more hours cleaning the leaves and sticks out of them. I can go to Walmart and by a big bag of Wyman's wild Maine blueberrys for about $3 a pound (much better than those cultivated one that taste like blue grapes). They are clean, nicely sized and taste the same. So I don't save any money picking my own but its an excuse to go visit a favorite mountain. I expect any fisherman will have the same approach the fish they catch if just minor excuse for getting out.

I could care less about organized sports. I know many folks with consumptive lifestyles who are the ones highly likely to not have enough saved for retirement who have season tickets or at least attend numerous weekend football, baseball and or Nascar races, they are routinely dropping $1000 a weekend to attend the game. What it boils down to is they are laying out a lot of cash to go look at someone else doing something. I would much rather go do something myself with some friends and spend a lot less money. I know the sports nuts think I am strange and probably missing out on the good old boy network to move up the corporate chess board but realistically I dont need to play those games any more and have always planned my finances so I didnt have to.

 

[sportbikerider78]

I hear ya on the sports thing. I don't get it at all..likely because my dad didn't get it and he passed that on to me. I prefer doing, not watching someone do.
Funny how most sports fans are not in shape at all..I'm not a sports fan and I have more athletic ability then all of my sports fans friends combined. And I'm far from super good shape. I just find sports a complete waste. I'd rather work on a car or learn how to do something instead of staring at a TV or paying someone else to work on my car.

For gardening,,,you gotta want it. It has to be something you enjoy. For me, it's not my thing. At least right now, with small kids, work, gym time, church, trying to find time to ride..ect.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

You know, it's my kid that pushed me back into it. Knowing what was in our food became very important. Growing it myself was the only way I could be sure it wasn't GMO or covered in pesticides.

She loves fruit for snacks. In summer, I hand her a bowl and tell her to go pick raspberries or blueberries. She comes back full, with half a bowl filled with fruit.

She isn't in front of a tv or computer, she's outside burning energy, watching bees, insects, etc, and out of our hair. When I go out with her to harvest, we chat while picking. Now there are some times I have to bite my tongue, like a couple days ago when she decided to try to cut a wire fence with my felco pruners... I'll need to resharpen them. Life will go on though. I can't say I wouldn't have tried the same.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I hear ya on the sports thing. I don't get it at all..likely because my dad didn't get it and he passed that on to me. I prefer doing, not watching someone do.
.

I never got the sports bug either. Seems like a lot of money ,time and effort expended with(in a sense) nothing to show for it IMHO. But im not knocking it as it seems such a large portion of the population is deep into it. So much so that we all must subsidize massive stadiums construction by the general public justified by some greater good analogy.

 

[maple1]

I never got the sports bug either. Seems like a lot of money ,time and effort expended with(in a sense) nothing to show for it IMHO. But im not knocking it as it seems such a large portion of the population is deep into it. So much so that we all must subsidize massive stadiums construction by the general public justified by some greater good analogy.

I think I would class spectator sports, as entertainment. 'Sports' to me is more ones that you participate in yourself. But nothing wrong with either.