100% Solar Community Survives Ian

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begreen

begreen

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Hearth Supporter
Nov 18, 2005
107,153
South Puget Sound, WA
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Nice. However, the sales pitch here is a bit disingenuous.

Of course the power lines are not broken. Of course they have built in higher ground. But the fact that the homes are still standing means that the wind and water attack was not as strong as elsewhere. Had it been, homes and solar array would have been demolished as elsewhere.

What they did well here from a hurricane perspective was NOT the solar.power. It was building away from the coast, having enough drainage, and putting the power lines underground. That is common sense that unfortunately is sorely lacking in most of coastal USA.
 
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Interesting. I wonder if they built up the lots, or lowered the roads, or both. It’s very difficult to deal with a 15 foot storm surge when the state averages 3 feet above sea level.
 
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The point is that the developers anticipated what Ft. Meyers did not. Ian went directly over this area. It was ground zero for a while. It was exposed to the same cat 4 winds and extreme rainfall. The designers moved the community a bit inland, put all wiring underground, and built the complex with extremes in mind. The roads were designed to handle the runoff and they planted extensively to soak up the excess water. They built a system independent of the fragile FPE grid. Solar + battery kept them powered. They had the foresight to design a community that could survive a strong hurricane and the system worked.
 
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Exactly. The title should have been "high and drained community survives Ian".

Nothing to do with solar.

And this goes to show that the water causes most damage, not the wind.

Finally, it's the drainage, not planting stuff that helps when 2 ft of rain falls.
 
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I don’t think the designer’s efforts are being discounted. I think it’s great that it worked.

Each of our personal experiences dictate what we took from the article. Having lived in Palm Beach County from 85 to 94, I lived through more than a couple hurricanes and their aftermath. I’ve even helped to dock a sailboat during 1 of them. (We were there adding additional spring lines, no idea why he decided now was the time to run the concrete gauntlet… alone, during 74mph hurricane Floyd). One of the deciding factors that convinced me to move from Houston was a beaver building a dam across the drainage area and not being able to get it removed. My former house has been flooded twice since by hurricanes. Heck, even here in NY I’ve had them disrupt life twice. Back in the 80s and maybe 2011 or so.
 
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Solar, underground utilities, streets designed to drain, plantings to soak up the water, etc. were all part of the comprehensive planning that went into this experimental community. And they just had their first success.

Solar was a key part of making the community resilient. So was running all utilities underground. It kept them powered. It kept the lights on and well pumps going so that they have water. It kept refrigeration going so that food didn't spoil. That is a big difference from the entire surrounding area, many of which are still in the dark and have no running water, and are eating MREs because the stores have no power. That is a major contrast.
 
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I am sorry, I call marketing BS.
They have amenities. Great.

However, it is the location away from the storm surge that made them still exist.
Had they been under 10 ft of water NOTHING would have been left there either.


Their survival did NOT result from them being a "solar community". It did result from location, location, location. (As in higher up and farther from the coastline).

Any other claim is plain BS with an agenda.


(And this is from someone who gets his power from his own rooftop solar.)
 
The main point is that amenities don't matter when you have 10-15 ft of water an 3-4 ft waves pounding your home or ground solar array. They did good. By making sure they would not get flooded to that extent. Not by having solar.
 
Sure it's marketing, and celebrating success. It's also learning from mistakes and acknowledging that climate change is real. This community was designed and built to stand up to it. This was the sales pitch 7-8 yrs ago when they broke ground and they have delivered on their promise.

They chose to go 12 miles inland as an intentional defensive strategy. This was totally contrary to the recent and ill-advised build-up on the shoreline at Ft. Meyers Beach. My mom lived in this exact area for over 10 yrs. Fortunately, she moved out before the big 2004 wipeout. Her community in Punta Gorda, and 7 miles inland, was just about erased from the map due to wind damage. Infrastructure and homes were blown away. And now with Ian, after sinking millions in the past 18 yrs to rebuilding the area, they are back to square one.

BTW, inland locations did poorly too as far as loss of power. The Orlando area was without power for several days.
 
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I think fair is fair. If Texas can have its grid go down bc their gas suppliers and gas gen plants weren't winterized, and then point the finger at their wind turbines (many of which worked just fine)... well, then we get to tout some successes too!

Even if this community wasn't on a salt water coast or suffered a direct strike (although it appears to be close) its aok to point out that ITS FINE and didn't lose power. The other side bills renewable energy as something that is so unreliable as to be hopeless, with the power going out on a cloudy day or when a gnat farts. So, hyping its robustness after a Cat 4+ hit while millions of their neighbors are in the dark... Hell Yeah.

My parents lived near Fort Myers for the last 30 years. I was down there to see my Dad last week, and flew out on the last plane out of Sarasota on Tuesday night. The highway I took was under 6' of water the next day. Freshwater flooding control is engineered by development/community. They make a retention pond of a certain size and depth per acre of development. You design it to a certain max rainfall. You can spend 2x as much to make it 2x higher capacity.
 
But it was not the renewable energy part of the infrastructure that made it reliable. It was being high and dry and having the lines underground. Everyone should do that, but it has nothing to do with being a solar community (title) or with being renewable energy.
 
"Climate conscious and resiliently built community survives Ian".
 
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begreen said:
Solar, underground utilities, streets designed to drain, plantings to soak up the water, etc. were all part of the comprehensive planning that went into this experimental community. And they just had their first success.

Solar was a key part of making the community resilient. So was running all utilities underground. It kept them powered. It kept the lights on and well pumps going so that they have water. It kept refrigeration going so that food didn't spoil. That is a big difference from the entire surrounding area, many of which are still in the dark and have no running water, and are eating MREs because the stores have no power. That is a major contrast.
Click to expand...

They will be dealing with issue with their solar arrays/roofs for months to come. A house twisting and panels being subjected to hurricane force winds, even with the proper installations, will create many micro gaps that will need to be addressed. Panels will fail either in whole or in part as they can only take so much of a beating. Panel efficiency goes down as panels are flexed, I know this as it was my job to test panels, and cells under both weather conditions and physical conditions. The overall impact could be minicule, or the array could look fantastic yet still have many issues to be addressed.

Underground utilities are the best idea they could have done. What modern development DOESNT use underground utilities though? I dont have a telephone pole anywhere near me within miles. But in the end, if the storm is bad enough - it doesnt matter. Most underground utilities get their feed source from above ground.

Plants cannot soak up that much water. Not 12" of rain plus storm surge if they had any. Sure they soak up a tiny amount, and then another tiny amount over time. The mulch beds those plants may reside in, likely worked to soak up a significant amount more than the plants ever could in the span of a week. I installed a large gray water system, and put plants in the cavity along with 2' of mulch (or more), and the plants LOVE it. Prior to the plants, my drainage rate was about the same. Within 2%.

Streets in florida draining, have to go somewhere. They dont have many places to go. When you are talking about storm surge, it wouldnt matter if the streets are 50' above the ground. Unless they had pumps pumping the water the next state over, it doesnt matter.

Edit: I just read the article. If the hurricane hit that array, it would have been pulverized. As someone else pointed out, this isnt some magical win because ...solar. That array is ugly, takes up a ton of space that should have otherwise been placed on useless roof space IMO. The upkeep and cost of that array has to be outstanding as well. It likely requires two fulltime people working on this, not to mention cost of materials etc. Im a big fan of solar, but unfortunately our world today we are surrounded by absolutists. Something is absolutely bad or absolutely good , never in between where reality usually is. There are major drawbacks to how they designed this and major perks. Obviously they are harnessing the suns energy for power, and likely putting back into the grid with an array of that size even with 2000 homes pulling from it. But they are extremely vulnerable as well, as all 'their eggs are in one basket'.
People also probably failed to read/understand that these homes are tied to the grid. They are getting their power from the grid.
 
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Hurricane Ian went right over this community. Check the path. Babcock Ranch is considered part of the Punta Gorda neighborhood in Charlotte County.
www.winknews.com

9-hour beating: Ian's wrath in Charlotte County

Scott Joiner has lived in Punta Gorda his entire life. He lived through Charley in 2004 when the hurricane was one of four hurricanes to strike Florida that year. Ian was different. “This was nine hours of being beat,” Joiner said. The Category 4 Hurricane that moved through Southwest Florida on...
www.winknews.com www.winknews.com

Their success is because the community was designed with a multipronged approach to deal with a 100 yr. storm. Punta Gorda itself was devastated, again. A lot of planning and community input went into building this new town. The community was built with 50% of it dedicated to green spaces. They restored with a weir system, the natural water flow of the area that had been disrupted by intensive farming and rock mining. That helped a lot with drainage.

Having power is part of being resilient. As of yesterday, over 50% of the surrounding communities are still without power. The folks at Babcock Ranch are able to go to their stores, buy food, refrigerate it, and function in the FL heat and humidity. Their kids are able to go to school. In other words, the town still is operational while surrounding towns do without power, water, gas, and food. FWIW, the area where my mom lived was without power for 32 days after Hurricane Charly. There were lessons learned from that 2004 storm and Babcock Ranch is an example.
apnews.com

Floridians endure slow wait for power knocked out by Ian

Hurricane Ian may be long gone from Florida, but the job of restoring power and searching for anyone still inside flooded or damaged homes presses on.
apnews.com apnews.com
The point about how well the solar arrays have stood up is an interesting question. That was my concern too. It's true that you can't protect against everything. If the tornado that ripped through nearby Cape Coral had hit this place, the story would have been worse. I'll try to keep track of the solar impact there in the coming months.
 
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I went up on the community Facebook page. It sounds like they made it with minimal damage. Businesses and their grocery stores are open. They are now supplying food, shelter, and services to the surrounding towns.
 
A better title and discussion of what mattered here:

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@stoveliker, you know that most places have a separate editor that just writes headlines, usually with no consultation or veto from the story authors or editors? And that websites usually do A/B testing of different headlines to find ones that maximize clickthrough?

The result is that MOST headlines are not accurate reflections of the article content, and rather clickbaity.
 
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I think it comes down to that the developer built to a high standard of resiliency and made sure that it was built to that standard and buyers were willing to pay a premium for that high standard. Note that all the media focused on is tract housing and rarely do they show new high rises designed for hurricane conditions. They are effectively up on stilts with deep foundations and blowout walls that blow out when tidal surges occur. All the utilities are above the predicted storm surge so with the exception of damage from external objects they usually are in good shape post storm. Solar panels are designed to meet specific wind loads, if the arrays were designed properly for hurricane conditions, I do not think they will see early failure, my guess is damage from flying objects is probably higher. Odds are the buildings are designed for high efficiency, so the household usage is lower. Mold is a major issue in Florida and wall and ceilings have to be carefully designed to prevent mold from building inside the cavities. In many cases buildings were built with zero insulation or out of concrete with zero insulation.

Begin Rant

Few people are willing to pay for resiliency, the typical buyer would rather buy close to the water so they can drive their boat from the backyard. Most are just going to pay for insurance and then go begging for help because they lost everything in what is a very predictable event. These events used to happen every 4 or 5 decades so someone buying a place had a good chance of living out their retirement without seeing a "big" one but with a warmer climate and rising seas, the space between "big" ones is getting narrower. IMHO, building on barrier islands is stupid, the buildings that got flattened should be removed and banned from redevelopment. Those who want to rebuild should not get a dime of public money to do so. Same with homes in storm surge zones. Florida would never go with that, but the reality is large parts of Florida are going to be at or below sea level water and definitely in storm surge range in decades not centuries. Politicians will just keep lying to the populace in the short term and hope they are retired before the SHTF. It will be interesting when the Florida Insurance risk pool runs out of money what they are going to do to fund a new one, otherwise the mortage market in Florida stops.
 
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Intelligent community planning in respect to "common sense" has been a huge, overlooked issue in South Fl. for many generations. Looking at the current storm footage reflects the persistent poor planning allowed for years (like every other cane event).
Stick built structures. At grade. On shallow slabs. On sand. Surrounded by water. What could possibly go wrong ;lol

I grew up with family in Naples. Elevated concrete structure on reinforced concrete deep piers. Place is still there. The place I fish from and warm up at in K. Largo is an elevated concrete structure on reinforced concrete deep piers. Duh. This is common sense!

No offense to those that lost everything. I have close friends in that very group right now. Sucks.

This solar community story appears to reflect at least some intelligent planning/ weather related consideration to this guy. Finally.
Carry on all. Interesting discussion.
 
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stoveliker said:
A better title and discussion of what mattered here:
Click to expand...
That is better reporting. All components of the design worked together successfully. And because of this, the town of Babcock Ranch is able to act as shelter and a lifeline to those less fortunate. I hope this lesson becomes a template for future rebuilds in Florida, but most likely it won't. There are too many hucksters there in for the short-term gain.
 
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