2 Stroke Oil Specifications

[jatoxico]

Did some more cutting today w/ a Husqvarna saw . Bucked up about 15' of oak and a little noodling. Pretty much out of the Tru Fuel I bought to use while getting the saw tuned. Tru Fuel is a non ethanol 92 (?) octane premixed at 1:50.

Now that the saw is all set I want do my own mix since the Tru Fuel is $7.00 a qt. I have some Ace Hardware ashless 2 stroke oil that says it meets spec for Toro and Echo (I have both) which call for 1:50. Problem is it doesn't specify exactly which standard it is made to (JASO or ISO). Safe to assume that an oil suitable to be mixed at 1:50 meets the JASO FD spec? The Husky manual states if the oil is JASO FB then mix to 1:33.

 

[TreePointer]

The manuals were printed with specifications for the oils available at the time of product testing, which could have been many years ago. Today's modern synthetic oils are advanced to the point that they provide the same or even better protection with as small a ratio of 50:1.

If it's a modern synthetic oil designed for air-cooled 2-cycle engines (not a "W" rating or multiuse), it should be fine at 50:1. If you wish to remove all doubt, use oil with a label that has the name of a quality chainsaw maker such as Stihl, Husqvarna, Dolmar, Echo, et al.

 

[jatoxico]

The manuals were printed with specifications for the oils available at the time of product testing, which could have been many years ago. Today's modern synthetic oils are advanced to the point that they provide the same or even better protection with as small a ratio of 50:1.

If it's a modern synthetic oil designed for air-cooled 2-cycle engines (not a "W" rating or multiuse), it should be fine at 50:1. If you wish to remove all doubt, use oil with a label that has the name of a quality chainsaw maker such as Stihl, Husqvarna, Dolmar, Echo, et al.

Yeah I just wish it listed some spec to fall back on. Saw is a 2013 vintage. The oil says ashless which I thought was for the water cooled 2 strokes but bottle says its for air cooled motors. In all likelihood it's fine. Can get bogged down for hours researching this stuff though.

 

[TreePointer]

If it says "air cooled," then that's the designation you want. Just be aware that some are better than others.

The full synthetic oils like Stihl Ultra actually will keep your engine clean. It's not just a sales gimmick. Lots of folks, including me, have torn down engines that use Ultra, and they are demonstrably cleaner (less depositing and gumming). They are good insurance for your engine.

The water cooled formulas (or multipurpose formulas) have a "W" in their designation like TCW or TC-W3. Even though these may state that they will also work in chainsaws, OPE manufacturers like Stihl do not recommend you use them in your air cooled chainsaw, trimmer, etc. Chainsaws place different demands on their engines than outboard engines and snowmobiles.

In the future, to avoid getting bogged down as you say in the oil specification alphabet soup, use the tip I gave earlier. If the 2-cycle air cooled engine oil bottle says Stihl, Husqvarna, or Echo on it, then you can rest assured that it more than meets the requirements of your chainsaw. I don't trust the strange name inexpensive 2-cycle oil that the local big box hardware or farm store sells.

 

[Mag Craft]

I use the Stihl ultra in all my saws no matter what make. The reason as mentioned above is, that it is one of the few on the market that is 100% synthetic and not a blend such as Husqvarna's oil and other manufactures.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I usually get lit up for saying so, but here goes. . .


Use anything you want. Air cooled 2 stroke engines, like the ones found on saws and trimmers and so forth, are not picky. As long as there is sufficient oil in the gas you're fine. Oil related failures are basically unheard of. There's lots of way to ruin a saw but choosing the wrong premix oil ain't one. These saws are marketed and sold and used all over the world and run just fine on anything that is available.

Also, Stihl doesn't own or run a refinery. Someone at corporate HQ puts out a bid for premix oil, some refiner gets the bid, and some 3rd party puts it in bottles with a picture of a chainsaw on it. I'd be surprised if anyone at Stihl on the manufacturing side had anything at all to do with the tiny corner of the business that prints labels and packages some one else's premix oil in orange bottles.

 

[Mag Craft]

I usually get lit up for saying so, but here goes. . .


Use anything you want. Air cooled 2 stroke engines, like the ones found on saws and trimmers and so forth, are not picky. As long as there is sufficient oil in the gas you're fine. Oil related failures are basically unheard of. There's lots of way to ruin a saw but choosing the wrong premix oil ain't one. These saws are marketed and sold and used all over the world and run just fine on anything that is available.

Also, Stihl doesn't own or run a refinery. Someone at corporate HQ puts out a bid for premix oil, some refiner gets the bid, and some 3rd party puts it in bottles with a picture of a chainsaw on it. I'd be surprised if anyone at Stihl on the manufacturing side had anything at all to do with the tiny corner of the business that prints labels and packages some one else's premix oil in orange bottles.

Well I will not lite you up but,
It really does not matter to me where Stihl gets there oil from as long as it is 100% synthetic.
Synthetic oils are proven, fact based to reduce friction over Dino oils. Less friction less heat.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Synthetic oils are proven, fact based to reduce friction over Dino oils. Less friction less heat.

While all of this is true, it's also true any premix oil from any reputable refiner will cause niether failure nor premature wear.

 

[Mag Craft]

While all of this is true, it's also true any premix oil from any reputable refiner will cause niether failure nor premature wear.

Ok.

 

[TreePointer]

Engine failure is not the standard. Over time, less than optimal starting and running are the likely issues.

Of course Stihl doesn't make their oil. I wasn't stating that one MUST use Stihl, Husqvarna, or another brand to be safe. If the OP is unsure about the oil, going with Stihl or Husqvarna oil will remove any doubt.

I've worked on saws and other OPE that had been running the cheapest mystery oil that's "perfect for chainsaws" and I've even used it myself. The innards are not pretty.

If you have any Stihl 4-Mix engines (some pole saws, trimmers, blowers, Kombi units) and want to keep things simple by having only one can of fuel in the garage for them and your other chainsaws, trimmers, etc., then it is indeed advantageous to use Ultra. It has been demonstrated that even Stihl dino oil will cause issues with 4-Mix valves.

 

[jatoxico]

Everyone is making sense and the cost difference between a Stihl or Husky product vs some cheapo brand doesn't amount to much. Just a convenience thing since I already have the stuff and figured save myself a trip.

I tend to agree w/ Redd that the 2 strokes are not too picky. I just want to use a JASO FD spec oil since that's what is called for. I'm guessing that if it's stating it's for air cooled motors and meets Echo and Toro standards it probably is but if it is in fact a JASO FB then the difference between a 1:50 and 1:33 mix is fairly significant.

 

[Mag Craft]

I mix all my fuel for 2 strokes at 35 - 1. Nothing gets gummed up and rings look good.
That really has to do with using a good oil.

 

[jatoxico]

I mix all my fuel for 2 strokes at 35 - 1. Nothing gets gummed up and rings look good.
That really has to do with using a good oil.

A little heavy on the oil can't hurt in my book too. I did notice though that for a while I mistakenly thought my Echo blower called for 1:30. When I went to 1:50 the exhaust cleaned up a bit and felt more zip. Could be in my head though. Sometimes I do some maintenance and have imaginary gains.

 

[BrotherBart]

I mix all my fuel for 2 strokes at 35 - 1. Nothing gets gummed up and rings look good.
That really has to do with using a good oil.

You and me brother. And any two stroke oil that is on the shelf when I need some. Read a post on another site years ago by a former Husqvarna engineer. He said the major challenge was to design something that would last past the warranty period running on the EPA mandated 50:1 mix.

I wouldn't buy syn oil on a bet. It doesn't stay in a two stroke long enough to take any advantage of the features of syn oil. Great in four strokes for not degrading due to heat over long periods, living with the byproducts of combustion in the crankcase and does a better job of cooling in a four stroke. But the fuel does the cooling in a two stroke and oil doesn't hang around in a the crankcase.

 

[jatoxico]

Read a post on another site years ago by a former Husqvarna engineer. He said the major challenge was to design something that would last past the warranty period running on the EPA mandated 50:1 mix.

That's an interesting bit of info I hadn't thought of,. So the 1:50 might be more of an EPA thing than anything else. I usually go a little heavy on oil not really trying to hit any particular ratio just a pinch more. Maybe I'll go 1:40 or so. Trying to be more diligent with making sure I have stabilizer in my OPE fuel as well.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Everything I own gets mixed gas (even 4 strokes) mixed at 40:1 because it's simple math. My gas cans are 5 gallon. 1 pint into 5 gallons is 40:1.

 

[Chuck Pearson]

<<I tend to agree w/ Redd that the 2 strokes are not too picky. I just want to use a JASO FD spec oil

Stihl Ultra only meets JASO FB. Do not assume that if the oil doesn't specify what it meets that it is FD.

 

[TreePointer]

A corollary also would be not to assume that an oil doesn't meet a particular standard because it's not listed on the bottle. It may not have formally been submitted to the independent testing organization for a particular certification.

Other reasons might be that the oil is designed to meet a certain goal, like being biodegradable, at the expense of passing the most stringent emissions criteria. The emissions criteria for the next lower rating may be sufficient for the intended market.

Also note that FC and FD have no lubricity improvements over the FB rating.

 

[BrotherBart]

JASCO is the Japanese catagory. Ask them what the API catagory is.



JASO FA – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.

JASO FB – increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA.

JASO FC – lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.

JASO FD - same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.

 

[BrotherBart]

Seeing the word "detergency" reminds me of a conversation I had with one of our refinery managers one day. She laughed and said "We put so much of the dang stuff in the gas these days that I have suds overflowing from the tank farm.".

 

[jatoxico]

Always sorry when I start down these roads, stuff can make you nuts. Went to the manuals, the saw wants JASO FD which I think is API TC, the leaf blower wants FC (or maybe FB) and the snow thrower says TCW III I guess because you're running in the cold but also says ISO EGD is OK which is the same as JASO FD spec, I think .

 

[BrotherBart]

Put API TC in the gas and go cut some wood.

 

[jatoxico]

Put API TC in the gas and go cut some wood.

Yeah really! Maybe I'll feed the snow blower what it wants from now on, otherwise I got other things to get OCD over.

 

[Mt Bob]

Was easier in the 70's-80's when all oil was bad.Run syn in everything but my 2 stokes,harder to burn,found out it clogs up exhaust valves(moveable exhaust ports).A high quality standard oil does better,if there are no problems hiding.Do not forget if you run xtra oil in mix you are displacing gas,making the system leaner.And add ethanol and oil is harder to suspend,falls out faster.

 

[BrotherBart]

When Mobil 1 came out in the 70's one of my truck leasing customers was ragging me about going to synthetic in the trucks. Unknown to us he filled the crankcase in their 250 Cummins with Mobil 1 and took off from Dallas to Houston. On the way back he broke an oil line and dumped six and a half gallons of four dollar a quart, in 1970's dollars, syn oil on the Interstate. Never heard a word about it again.

I have never owned a quart of syn oil in my life.