We have a decent shop classes locally and Seattle has some good programs in community colleges. The carpentry and marine building programs are excellent as are the welding, culinary arts, and viniculture programs.
65 % of americans not preparing for retirement.
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My experience is that most public high school school systems are run by teachers that went to college, they regard trades training as the place to dump the students who aren't interested in college and the discipline problems. Our local high school had an excellent forestry program, the teacher finally gave up the program as the school kept dumping the discipline problems on him and he was expected to graduate them. Not a good combination of chainsaws and skidders under the control of kids with discipline issues. Trades are the first programs to get cut in a typical school system. Standardized testing tends to encourage the academic track. Luckily larger school systems usually will have one designated complex for trades.
My university program years ago added a two year engineering technology program in addition to regular engineering program. A studtn could go two years and get a certificate or 4 years and get a BS. They had the option after the first year to switch up to the regular engineering program. U Maine was state school and they supported industry with their program. There were a few years where the ME techs had higher starting salaries then the MEs as the industry in the state needed maintenance planners and foreman and the techs had more practical skills than the MEs did.
After the first job interview it pretty rare if anyone asks or cares what engineering school someone went to., The reality was a degree just meant that we had the technical background but it was sink or swim once hired into a real job. Make it through a couple of years in papermill and after that headhunters started calling us trying to hire us away.
My university program years ago added a two year engineering technology program in addition to regular engineering program. A studtn could go two years and get a certificate or 4 years and get a BS. They had the option after the first year to switch up to the regular engineering program. U Maine was state school and they supported industry with their program. There were a few years where the ME techs had higher starting salaries then the MEs as the industry in the state needed maintenance planners and foreman and the techs had more practical skills than the MEs did.
After the first job interview it pretty rare if anyone asks or cares what engineering school someone went to., The reality was a degree just meant that we had the technical background but it was sink or swim once hired into a real job. Make it through a couple of years in papermill and after that headhunters started calling us trying to hire us away.
Most of those programs were offered by large manufacturers, there just are not many left. just in the Syracuse area alone Carrier air conditioners - gone, Fisher body (general motors)- gone, New process gear (Chrysler) - gone. That's over 10,000 jobs gone. Add in the companies that supported the plants and the numbers just keep going up.
firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
Vocational schools are still doing pretty well in my area . . . well, some are . . . the local vocational high school vocational school has changed a lot since I've been teaching there as a guest instructor in the last 23 years and the teachers admit the same.
At one time it was the place where a lot of students went who did not like school . . . there were some students in those programs who could care less about their education and were simply there for the social aspect.
It didn't help that teachers were often pushing students to go on to a traditional four year college.
Things have changed a lot though.
First off, there is not a "one size fits all" approach to secondary education. Many of the teachers and guidance counselors in the sending schools have seen the light and realize that many students do better with hands on education . . . and many also see the value (not to mention in many cases the bigger paychecks) that can be achieved with a trade school education. There is not the same stigma as there was just 20 or so years ago.
The programs have also evolved with the times and this has had the net result of bringing in many different students who would not have been enrolled in a trade school program at the high school level. Robotics, horticulture, computer design, public safety (law enforcement, EMS and firefighting), video/sound production programs can be found now in the same building as the traditional heavy equipment, small engine, CNA, welding and carpentry classes. In some cases traditional programs have morphed into new programs to take advantage of changing tech and student interest . . . as an example the traditional body shop class now has a much, much larger focus on working with composites such as carbon fiber.
As the school and programs have evolved, so have the students. As mentioned earlier I don't see anywhere near the same level of apathy or disrespect from today's students. The vast majority want to be in the vocational school. While not all will pursue that trade, I would guess at least 95% have a passion or at the very least were curious about that one particular trade. The instructors have noticed this change as well and as a whole prefer today's students. They tell me that the students they had 20 years ago often knew a lot already about the trade, but many just didn't want to be in school and could care less about passing the class. The students they have today often have to be taught the very basics -- as in how to take measurements with a tape measure, sizes of wrenches, etc. -- but the flip side is they are engaged and want to learn.
Finally, the high school vocational school in the City where I work has the mindset that the high school program may only be but the start of the student's education in the trade. They have a close tie with the local community college (which in itself has partnered with local businesses) so that students enrolling in these college level classes are pretty much guaranteed a job once they graduate in one to four years. As an example, my good friend's son will be graduating after taking a one year class in becoming a wind turbine tech . . . while this may seem to be a very narrow field, I am told that the program also incorporates parts of other renewable energy generators, such as solar, to give him more desirable skills to future employers. The college has also said if he chooses to just stay in wind energy, as of right now he should find employment with no issue.
At one time it was the place where a lot of students went who did not like school . . . there were some students in those programs who could care less about their education and were simply there for the social aspect.
It didn't help that teachers were often pushing students to go on to a traditional four year college.
Things have changed a lot though.
First off, there is not a "one size fits all" approach to secondary education. Many of the teachers and guidance counselors in the sending schools have seen the light and realize that many students do better with hands on education . . . and many also see the value (not to mention in many cases the bigger paychecks) that can be achieved with a trade school education. There is not the same stigma as there was just 20 or so years ago.
The programs have also evolved with the times and this has had the net result of bringing in many different students who would not have been enrolled in a trade school program at the high school level. Robotics, horticulture, computer design, public safety (law enforcement, EMS and firefighting), video/sound production programs can be found now in the same building as the traditional heavy equipment, small engine, CNA, welding and carpentry classes. In some cases traditional programs have morphed into new programs to take advantage of changing tech and student interest . . . as an example the traditional body shop class now has a much, much larger focus on working with composites such as carbon fiber.
As the school and programs have evolved, so have the students. As mentioned earlier I don't see anywhere near the same level of apathy or disrespect from today's students. The vast majority want to be in the vocational school. While not all will pursue that trade, I would guess at least 95% have a passion or at the very least were curious about that one particular trade. The instructors have noticed this change as well and as a whole prefer today's students. They tell me that the students they had 20 years ago often knew a lot already about the trade, but many just didn't want to be in school and could care less about passing the class. The students they have today often have to be taught the very basics -- as in how to take measurements with a tape measure, sizes of wrenches, etc. -- but the flip side is they are engaged and want to learn.
Finally, the high school vocational school in the City where I work has the mindset that the high school program may only be but the start of the student's education in the trade. They have a close tie with the local community college (which in itself has partnered with local businesses) so that students enrolling in these college level classes are pretty much guaranteed a job once they graduate in one to four years. As an example, my good friend's son will be graduating after taking a one year class in becoming a wind turbine tech . . . while this may seem to be a very narrow field, I am told that the program also incorporates parts of other renewable energy generators, such as solar, to give him more desirable skills to future employers. The college has also said if he chooses to just stay in wind energy, as of right now he should find employment with no issue.
firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
Same here.
The local vocational school consistently sends students to the national Skills USA competitions . . . and they consistently come back with top finishes.
I personally bring most of my small engines -- sleds, ATVs, lawn tractor, chainsaw, etc. -- to the small engine class. The instructor is more than a teacher -- he is a mentor in the purest sense of the word. He has gone to bat for more than one of his students and ended up helping them land their first job in the field.
One thing he does is to run the class almost like a shop. I mean to say he teaches -- both in the class and on the shop floor -- but it is the students who are responsible for filling out the forms when I bring in my ATV or sled to get fixed, the students work on the stuff and ask him questions and he signs off on their work and it is the students who explain what they did and give me the bill (parts only, no labor). He treats these young men and women as . . . well . . . professional young men and women . . . and it shows.
Now that's not to say he's all business. Typically in the late Winter or early Spring he will drag out his collection of antique snowmobiles and let the students ride around the school grounds with them. It's very neat to see some of the old one-lungers huffing and puffing. He also bought a racing go cart a year or two ago. Students assemble the go cart from the ground up and then get to take it for a spin before disassembling it for the next student. Finally, about every two years he organizes a trip into Canada to see the Skidoo factory and museum in Valcourt with his students.
If you want investing advice, just buy Vanguard SP500 index funds. I am a single income household with two kids and a wife and in 14 years we now have over 600k saved. We were able to do the IRS max in my 401k about seven years ago and was able to add IRAs for my wife and I about three years ago. We have never owned a new car and our house has a base square footage of about 1400. We took our first vacation that didn’t revolve around my work travel for the first time three years ago.
Anyone can save if you want to. The way I look at it is if the SP500 tanks you need to be buying bullets, salt, and seed. Gold, and silver will have no value if the economy crashes. Individual stocks and precious metals are a fools game unless you just like gambling.
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Anyone can save if you want to. The way I look at it is if the SP500 tanks you need to be buying bullets, salt, and seed. Gold, and silver will have no value if the economy crashes. Individual stocks and precious metals are a fools game unless you just like gambling.
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Not every body should invest in the same thing. Different people have different risk tolerances, needs, and time lines.
While the S&P 500 has done really well, somebody who gets an ulcer every time the market corrects should choose investments that are low beta.
While the S&P 500 has done really well, somebody who gets an ulcer every time the market corrects should choose investments that are low beta.
Then buy CDs and lose money to inflation. Warren Buffets advise was to buy SP500 and avoid individual stocks. The SP has earned over seven percent since creation, to include the depression and the “great” recession.
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Everyone has a different risk tolerance, there are various quizzes folks can take but the reality if most folks are wired to believe the hype on the news. Cable TV and the internet all all desperate to get "eyeballs" and the way to get them is to make outrageous claims not backed up by any real truth. Investing in stocks need to be the long term, 5 plus years. If you are trying to invest for a shorter term, the investing shifts to gambling. Until an investor has actually gone through an investment cycle of a bear to a bull to bear market and seen the long term gain with lots of "noise" in between its easy to get sucked in by short term doom and gloom or hype. The other thing to realize is that there is no such thing as a "hot tip", 70% of the trades on the markets are computerized instantaneous transactions occurring in faster than blink of the eye that are factoring in any possible news, no way that an individual will ever get a jump on the computers. If its "hot tip" on an individual stock, ignore it and run away, if its truly inside information and someone trades on it, its illegal. Usually the "hot tip" is put out by folks who stand to gain doing something opposite of what they are telling other folks to do. Look up "pump and dump" or just watch the Wolf of Wall Street (a great movie bases on the penny stock market.
I am buy and hold investor of no load mutual funds from Vanguard. Vanguard is the only investment firm not owned by shareholders. Vanguard's shareholders are the owners of the funds, thus there is no incentive for them to crank up the volume to pay a dividend to shareholder. Across the board they generally have the highest ranked funds and lowest expense ratios. Even though its pretty well proven by their founder, Jack Bogle, that index funds held long term is the best investment, they know folks are going to gamble their money trying to beat the market so they do offer managed funds and ETFs so their members don't have to go elsewhere. Remember in every transaction, for everyone that makes money, someone is losing money.
The other long term thing is folks don't realize that inflation eats your money long term so just keeping it in a bank account or CDs means they are losing money long term. The fed has been printing money since the last financial crisis and artificially keeping the inflation rate low for quite a few years and the result was anyone with money in bonds, or CDs which are tied to bonds have had artificially low returns. The only way to keep ahead of bonds is to buy and hold stock based index funds, yes the funds could lose money in the short term (less than 5 years) but in the long run their returns will exceed long term inflation. On the other hand, the worse investments are folks who are in and out of the market listening to the short term doom and gloom as most of the gains happen quickly and if they are out of the market they miss out.
If someone just cant ignore the news to buy and sell and are paranoid about the future there is already laddering CDs as an approach. There is no risk albeit crappy return that slowly gets eaten by inflation. Note there is risk to bond funds that a lot of folks don't realize, the return on bonds is tied to federal bond rate if the fed rate goes up, the bonds fund value drops as its holding lower interest rate funds. Once a bond fund starts to loose money many folks want to get out of it and that creates an even bigger drain on the fund. There is far less risk buying short term bond funds but lower returns.
I am buy and hold investor of no load mutual funds from Vanguard. Vanguard is the only investment firm not owned by shareholders. Vanguard's shareholders are the owners of the funds, thus there is no incentive for them to crank up the volume to pay a dividend to shareholder. Across the board they generally have the highest ranked funds and lowest expense ratios. Even though its pretty well proven by their founder, Jack Bogle, that index funds held long term is the best investment, they know folks are going to gamble their money trying to beat the market so they do offer managed funds and ETFs so their members don't have to go elsewhere. Remember in every transaction, for everyone that makes money, someone is losing money.
The other long term thing is folks don't realize that inflation eats your money long term so just keeping it in a bank account or CDs means they are losing money long term. The fed has been printing money since the last financial crisis and artificially keeping the inflation rate low for quite a few years and the result was anyone with money in bonds, or CDs which are tied to bonds have had artificially low returns. The only way to keep ahead of bonds is to buy and hold stock based index funds, yes the funds could lose money in the short term (less than 5 years) but in the long run their returns will exceed long term inflation. On the other hand, the worse investments are folks who are in and out of the market listening to the short term doom and gloom as most of the gains happen quickly and if they are out of the market they miss out.
If someone just cant ignore the news to buy and sell and are paranoid about the future there is already laddering CDs as an approach. There is no risk albeit crappy return that slowly gets eaten by inflation. Note there is risk to bond funds that a lot of folks don't realize, the return on bonds is tied to federal bond rate if the fed rate goes up, the bonds fund value drops as its holding lower interest rate funds. Once a bond fund starts to loose money many folks want to get out of it and that creates an even bigger drain on the fund. There is far less risk buying short term bond funds but lower returns.
Bonds would be tricky now. I'd choose short terms due to rising rates. But if I expected rates to fall, I'd be trying to stretch out as far as I could.
But there is plenty of money to be made on them. Buffet himself has proven it. It's all about the yield and quality of the issuer. On the issuer, sometimes it's down to the individual project. One project could fail, while another one is fully funded and at no risk. (Extra points if you can guess the famous Buffet example I'm referring to.)
I tend to believe the discipline to keep putting money away and living below your means is more important than the investment vehicle.
Our buy high sell low Morning financial guys on the tv can eat away somebody's savings pretty quickly. It doesn't take too many cycles of emotional impulsive decisions before a slow and steady 3% CD wins out.
Investing isn't a 1 option wins thing. There are different ways to win the race. Diversification is good, and many funds and ETFs provide that at an excellent price.
But there is plenty of money to be made on them. Buffet himself has proven it. It's all about the yield and quality of the issuer. On the issuer, sometimes it's down to the individual project. One project could fail, while another one is fully funded and at no risk. (Extra points if you can guess the famous Buffet example I'm referring to.)
I tend to believe the discipline to keep putting money away and living below your means is more important than the investment vehicle.
Our buy high sell low Morning financial guys on the tv can eat away somebody's savings pretty quickly. It doesn't take too many cycles of emotional impulsive decisions before a slow and steady 3% CD wins out.
Investing isn't a 1 option wins thing. There are different ways to win the race. Diversification is good, and many funds and ETFs provide that at an excellent price.
mass_burner
Minister of Fire
I think it's worth the exercise of considering from a philosophical POV. If we are indeed a family and need each other to prosper (someone has to collect the trash, wait tables, repair electrical lines) then why would you want to opt out?
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If I could invest that money on my own, I'm fairly sure I could achieve a higher rate of return than the govt. There's an entire industry of consultants that figure out the best strategy to claiming social security. This tells me that many do not even get the most return possible.
This would give me more funds to pay the utility worker, waitress, bag boy, vacation hotel staff, strippers... really, where ever I wanted to spread my wealth. I'm convinced I'm the best at spending my own money. With my desire to spend as much locally my social security contributions could really help snowball growth in the local economy.
This would give me more funds to pay the utility worker, waitress, bag boy, vacation hotel staff, strippers... really, where ever I wanted to spread my wealth. I'm convinced I'm the best at spending my own money. With my desire to spend as much locally my social security contributions could really help snowball growth in the local economy.
Personally i do NOT want to opt out. If that were allowed the largest contributors would flee leaving an already underfunded insurance program to fail in freefall. Many of those if not most of those who save nothing for retirement will continue the same course and be 100% dependent on social services for 100% of their after retirement expenses. Living expenses not covered by retirees SS ultimately are all just shifted to another part of the govts liabilities.
Maybe so ,but what if your own personal pot of gold goes belly up. Many a wealthy investor die penniless. Can happen to anyone. At least you still have the guaranteed minimum SS. So the old ''all your eggs'' in one basket analogy
If the SP500 goes belly up there will be no SS no matter what the government guarantee.
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Interest rates are a double edged sword. Going back to historic interest rates will most likely tank the Govt and the economy quickly. Even a few points of interest rates will make the interest payments on the US debt unsustainable in the short term, not just in the long term. Low rates on bonds and Cds are a small price to pay to keep us afloat. My guess is the Govt will find a way to keep those rates close to where they are now.
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
Historic rates for the DOW don't mean squat! Nothing that has happened is promised to happen. It is always a gamble and that gamble is based on when you need to retire and what income level you need to have.
I think that by the time I retire, I will be about half vested in 401k/ect and income properties like rentals. Even if the value of the retals drops, you still have a good tax write-off and rent coming in.
This is a really interesting time in history. For the first time ever, people have most of what they save in an imaginary place, all 1's and 0's, in an electronic world. Not to long ago, retirements were land and tangible assets.
I think it is a time of great vulnerability.
I think that by the time I retire, I will be about half vested in 401k/ect and income properties like rentals. Even if the value of the retals drops, you still have a good tax write-off and rent coming in.
This is a really interesting time in history. For the first time ever, people have most of what they save in an imaginary place, all 1's and 0's, in an electronic world. Not to long ago, retirements were land and tangible assets.
I think it is a time of great vulnerability.
I was talking about historic INTEREST rates. The interest rate now paid on the National debt is at abnormally low rates.Once these rates adjust back to historic norms the Govt will be bankrupt. Which is why they will have to keep Interest rates low at all costs.Interest on the debt will crowd out all other federal spending. As far as rentals ,100% of my income comes from rentals an purchase contract payments. These will disappear quickly when tenants and buyers lose jobs and income. Rentals are far from bulletproof income. The only bulletproof investment that i can think of is a farm. Ask the amish. Im not sure what to do as i dont have plans to buy or ability to operate a farm.
Plenty of farms for sale cheap up my way in Northern Maine. The Amish and Mennonites are moving up there as the available land in PA doesn't support their growth rate. A farm for self sufficiency is one thing, but if its dependent on selling a crop, odds are there is government subsidy hiding in the background. Real estate in general is what s called a ill-liquid investment, when you need the money, it may take a while to to sell or the sales price may have to be discounted. It all come down to balanced portfolio of investments in multiple markets of varying risk. The biggest controllable thing to do is get rid of debt and reduce expenses, everything else has some risk but the long term results are pretty predictable once you start looking at 5 years out.
Iv done that. No paper assets at all. No debt tied to assets.CC debt(unsecured) is not as bad as its not tied to assets although i dont have much of that either anymore.Once the public realizes that their treasuries will NOT ever be paid back (or pennies on the dollar) we will be in uncharted territory. Lots of inflation ahead.
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sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
My post was not in reference to anything you posted...it was just below it.
Agree. Nothing is bulletproof. Other than bullets. They always have value. LOL
sportbikerider78
Minister of Fire
That is surprising to me, seeing how it is so cold with such a short season. Last place I would move to grow anything.
I think they do lots of cash transactions locally. They keep most of their business internal and when it is external, it is off the grid. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
I do agree about the DOW. Historic rates mean nothing, with the levels of debt piled up that will never be repaid, we are not in any previous historic situation. If we cant keep the bills paid while borrowing trillions,how will we ever survive while paying those same trillions back with interest.