A wood stove must have an efficiency of 75% to be eligible for a tax credit. That is no help. The most efficient stove fireplace insert I could find (Jotul C 550) is only 71%!
75%?!
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Nope, look again. there are many that beat that. The offspring of my stove/ the insert has the tax credit. Many many others also.
The spec is a lower efficiency - a thermal efficiency.
It is not a "total" efficiency like in EPA, etc.......
Most modern stoves will pass it...I'm told. Check with the maker and be certain they have some sort of written proof.
It is not a "total" efficiency like in EPA, etc.......
Most modern stoves will pass it...I'm told. Check with the maker and be certain they have some sort of written proof.
(broken link removed to http://www.jotul.com/en-us/wwwjotulus/Main-menu/Products/Wood/Wood-inserts/Jotul-C-550-Rockland/)
Many stoves used to just list a default efficiency rating for the stove type. With the tax credit, virtually all good stoves are being re-tested and re-listed with a new, usually higher rating. So a lot of stoves that were listed last year at 63% or 71% or whatever are now over 75%. Look for the efficiency tax certificate online or at your point of purchase - you need it to take the credit.
Cal-MI said:
You're fine. Get the C550 if you like it. It qualifies, the dealer will confirm this.
http://woodheatstoves.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=29
In accordance with the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, Part III, Secton 1121, Energy Conservaton Incentves, nonbusinesses may qualify for this credit if the wood or pellet stoves meet the criteria of 75% or better efciency as measured using a lower heatng value (LHV). The formula to calculate LHV is further defned by the Canadian Standards Associaton CSA B415.1. This calculaton is subject to change untl ratified by the IRS. Should said calculaton be modifed in the approval process, manufacturer takes no responsibility for qualifcaton of product or guarantee of credit. Valid for qualifying purchases January 1, 2009 December 31, 2010
its all about the LHV test,
In accordance with the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, Part III, Secton 1121, Energy Conservaton Incentves, nonbusinesses may qualify for this credit if the wood or pellet stoves meet the criteria of 75% or better efciency as measured using a lower heatng value (LHV). The formula to calculate LHV is further defned by the Canadian Standards Associaton CSA B415.1. This calculaton is subject to change untl ratified by the IRS. Should said calculaton be modifed in the approval process, manufacturer takes no responsibility for qualifcaton of product or guarantee of credit. Valid for qualifying purchases January 1, 2009 December 31, 2010
its all about the LHV test,
Why not? I don't expect to get much seasoned wood. When burning green wood in a semi-airtight stove, I am accustomed to putting in some chemical every month. I buy it at the hardware store. It cleans the chimney and stove and turns any creosote left in the chimney into a fine grey ash that feels like laundry soap.Backwoods Savage said:
I used to have to brush the chimney each month but have not had to do that since using the stuff.
Cal, you're going to find (have already found?) everyone on this site is going to tell you the 3 rules of proper fuel for successful burning with EPA stoves: 1) Burn dry wood; 2) Burn dry wood; 3) Burn dry wood. You've done your research of finding the efficiency of a Jotul, now you need to research why it is rated that efficient. Secondary burning will not occur with green/wet wood in your new Jotul. You will be much better off finding hardwood pallets and dry softwood than burning green oak.
Now that is confusing. The Jotul catalog says 71% and the Jotul web site says over 75%. And there are two different kinds of efficiency ratings??? One called LHV. I guess what counts is that you get some paperwork, a certificate.branchburner said:
branchburner said:
But the trees surrounding my house are living oak trees. And they need to be trimmed and thinned. The whole purpose of getting a fireplace insert is to get some use from all the green wood I will accumulate. I don't have time to season wood that is still growing in order to burn it this winter. And I sure do not want to buy wood.
I realize it would be more effecient to let the sun dry the wood than have a stove dry it in the process of burning. With green wood, the secondary burning would, I assume, come when I periodically burn/clean out the flue.
I could just burn it in the fireplace with glass doors, but that puts almost no heat into the house.
The first part is always the most difficult. For sure with oak. Most oak really needs 2 years to dry.
What you really need to do is try to get 2-3 years ahead on the wood pile. Once you do, you will be amazed at the difference it makes. Not only will you get more heat from your wood but you won't be cleaning that chimney all the time. For example: we put up a new chimney 2 years ago. It has not been cleaned once and our wood stove is our only source of heat.
Here is one of the best ways of handling wood. Cut it during the winter months when there is the least amount of sap in the tree. Get it cut to firewood length and get it split. Stack it, preferably where it will get sunshine and most important, where it will get wind on the sides of the stack. Don't cover it the first summer but do cover it before the snow begins falling. Then cover the top only. Leave the sides and ends open. The wood you cut during the winter of 2009-2010 should be burned in 2011-2012 but with some wood you can burn it in 2010-2011; like ash for example.
You've no doubt seen some of my postings and pictures but in case not, here is one picture:
![[Hearth.com] 75%?!](https://www.hearth.com/talk/attachments/wood-2009c-1-gif.209905/ "[Hearth.com] 75%?!")
That wood (mostly ash but some soft maple) was cut during the 2008-2009 winter. It was split during March and stacked during April. I could burn that wood this winter if needed but won't (only because we have lots more).
You will notice that it is stacked in 3 rows together. That allows for air circulation as well as the poles under the stack to allow air under the piles. If I wanted to season the quickest way I would stack just in single rows with a couple of feet between each.
We put in a new stove in 2007 and since doing so we have not had to clean our chimney even once (nor the cap) and we use only 50% of the amount of wood we used to burn....and stay warmer too. This is what it is all about. More warmth; less work. Just enjoy!
Good luck to you.
What you really need to do is try to get 2-3 years ahead on the wood pile. Once you do, you will be amazed at the difference it makes. Not only will you get more heat from your wood but you won't be cleaning that chimney all the time. For example: we put up a new chimney 2 years ago. It has not been cleaned once and our wood stove is our only source of heat.
Here is one of the best ways of handling wood. Cut it during the winter months when there is the least amount of sap in the tree. Get it cut to firewood length and get it split. Stack it, preferably where it will get sunshine and most important, where it will get wind on the sides of the stack. Don't cover it the first summer but do cover it before the snow begins falling. Then cover the top only. Leave the sides and ends open. The wood you cut during the winter of 2009-2010 should be burned in 2011-2012 but with some wood you can burn it in 2010-2011; like ash for example.
You've no doubt seen some of my postings and pictures but in case not, here is one picture:
That wood (mostly ash but some soft maple) was cut during the 2008-2009 winter. It was split during March and stacked during April. I could burn that wood this winter if needed but won't (only because we have lots more).
You will notice that it is stacked in 3 rows together. That allows for air circulation as well as the poles under the stack to allow air under the piles. If I wanted to season the quickest way I would stack just in single rows with a couple of feet between each.
We put in a new stove in 2007 and since doing so we have not had to clean our chimney even once (nor the cap) and we use only 50% of the amount of wood we used to burn....and stay warmer too. This is what it is all about. More warmth; less work. Just enjoy!
Good luck to you.
Cal-MI said:
I understand your situation, but the idea w/ an EPA insert is to get some use from the green wood after it's no longer green, in a year or two. Your wishes will not change that reality. I suggest you cut as much green oak now to use in 2011 and beyond, and for this winter try to find some dry standing dead wood (or offer to trade someone a larger amount of green oak for a smaller amount of seasoned wood?).
A new Jotul will not perform to your expectations with green oak. If that's all you can burn you're almost better using a pre-EPA stove this year and getting the Jotul next year when you have seasoned wood. The 30% tax credit is good through 2010.
Trying to achieve your secondary burning all at once in a manner you suggest sometimes leads to more burning than desired, i.e. your whole house.
Backwoods Savage said:
I like (?) that quote, "Get it cut". <g> That translates for me as "Cut it".
There is less amount of sap in the winter, granted. But isn't it just as well to cut it in the spring because then it will have a long hot summer to dry? I do prefer to cut when it is 40F or less, but those days occur 9 months of the year.
Oh well, I do have a couple of trees that have been dead for over a year. I can start with those, I suppose.
branchburner said:
or same amount of lesser btu seasoned wood. Probably the easiest/cheapest route if you know any other wood burners.
Yes. I used to put in the chimney cleaning chemicals every month. It is OK. Don't let it go too long without cleaning, though, or something undesired may catch fire.madrone said:
Remember, secondary burn suffers when using green wood. Whether cat or non-cat it depends on having high firebox temperatures which green wood doesn't help. It takes energy to burn off that moisture which lowers the temperature.
Cal-MI said:
Used to do that myself. Bought it by the gallon. Haven't needed to buy that crap in the three seasons burning the new stove. Four years ago I was here singing some of the same song you are. Well, except for that green wood bullshit. You can't convince me that even you believe that. The members here pounded it through my head and I junked the old stove and quit burning wet wood and the results have been amazing. Burning half the wood, which means less work all the way from the woods to the stove for these old bones, and getting a lot more heat.
Do what ya wanna do. It ain't extra work for us.
That is the most sensible thing I have read here. Of course, I know that "burning water" does not produce heat. But how does a stove maintain high firebox temperature without giving out more heat than you desire, "melting the house" or stove down, so to speak? I am accustomed to using a portion of green wood to avoid putting out excess undesirable heat.cmonSTART said:
Firebrick does wonders, but you can't burn modern stove the same way as the old VC Defiant my parents had growing up. Short, hot fires are the norm with our 30-NC unless its wicked cold out. You can close the air control, but there is a limit where you will lose the secondary (at least with my system.)
It takes a while to get the grasp of burning in an EPA stove, but you do have options for controlling heat output. The first of course is the size of the stove. Too small and you won't get all the heat you might want on the coldest days. Too big and you'll need smaller, shorter fires (which are less efficient than long burns). As was suggested, you can also burn lower BTU wood. But to keep the stove itself from overheating, you don't need to slow the fire by adding green wood. The stoves are designed to burn under control, if maintained and operated correctly.
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