About to Purchase 1st Wood Stove - Need Advice!

[BurnIt13]

Hello everybody! I've been lurking this forum on and off for a year trying to absorb your infinite wisdom and I'll soon be purchasing our first wood stove. I'm plenty familiar with fire and wood stove operation but I've never owned one. So a few things that I've never had to think about before have been popping up.

We have a farmers porch on the side of our two story colonial. There is an alcove in our dining room that protrudes 2ft onto this porch. We are going to install the stove in the alcove. The stove pipe would then go through the roof of the farmers porch and up along side the house. All clearances required by the local authorities and the manufacturer will be met. My problem is deciding whether I should vent out of the top of the stove straight up through the ceiling of the alcove or have a 90 degree bend, go through the wall to a "T", and the up through the roof of the farmers porch.

To illustrate what the installs would end up looking like, here is a quick sketch. It is not to scale.

Obviously, Option 1 is the best. It is the straightest run, will have the best draft. Option 2 has a bunch of bends but cleaning would be easier right? Just open up the cleanout and go up from there? Here is my dilhema. I want to install the chimney per option 1 but how do you clean a stove with a top vent? I was planning on using a tool like the SootEater to clean the chimney. Isn't there a bunch of stuff in the stove that is in the way? Do I have to take the chimney pipe apart or does something on the inside of the stove come out? It seems cleaning Option 1 might be very messy.

I am planning on installing a Quadra-Fire 3100 Millennium if that makes a difference. Thanks!

 

[dougand3]

Welcome, Burnit13. If you had option 1...you could have a sliding stove pipe connector (there's a better name but it escapes me). Unscrew it and slide it down - then brush from the bottom up..bigger mess but you don't fall off the roof. Sooteaters may help but don't replace a brush.

 

[Wood Heat Stoves]

Welcome, Burnit13. If you had option 1...you could have a sliding stove pipe connector (there's a better name but it escapes me). Unscrew it and slide it down - then brush from the bottom up..bigger mess but you don't fall off the roof. Sooteaters may help but don't replace a brush.

slip connector


option 1 is much easier to clean, just remove stove baffle before sweeping

 

[begreen]

Maybe a dumb question, but is there an option 1.5 where the pipe can go straight up without any offset?

 

[BurnIt13]

I'm showing my newbieness here but...what is the function of the stove baffle, where is it typically located, and how does one remove it? A picture some where on the net would be nice

 

[BurnIt13]

Maybe a dumb question, but is there an option 1.5 where the pipe can go straight up without any offset?

Unfortunetely no, due to the size of the alcove and clearances required by the stove the pipe will come out of the porch roof about 8 inches away from the side of the house. The roof overhang is 16 inches. With 3 inches of clearance for the roof overhang, I am forced to offset it by 10 inches.

How bad is the pipe layout for option 2?

 

[begreen]

What stove?
Option 2 seems like it may spoil draft unless the rise is long.

Also, what is the alcove ceiling height? (note, 2" clearance is sufficient for the pipe I think).

 

[BurnIt13]

What stove?
Option 2 seems like it may spoil draft unless the rise is long.

Also, what is the alcove ceiling height? (note, 2" clearance is sufficient for the pipe I think).

THe stove will be a Quadra-Fire 3100 Millennium (unless I change my mind). The alcove ceiling height is 7.5 feet above the hearth. 60" above the top of the stove. The rise from the stove top to the chimney cap is 27ft.

 

[ddown]

make sure to check Alcove height requirements mine and many others are 84"

 

[bobforsaken]

Maybe a dumb question, but is there an option 1.5 where the pipe can go straight up without any offset?

Unfortunetely no, due to the size of the alcove and clearances required by the stove the pipe will come out of the porch roof about 8 inches away from the side of the house. The roof overhang is 16 inches. With 3 inches of clearance for the roof overhang, I am forced to offset it by 10 inches.

How bad is the pipe layout for option 2?

Full Disclosure.. I'm a newb myself.. but I've seen many installs on this forum where the roof overhang is cut away to allow the pipe to go straight up. Some interesting threads about the challenges in re-sealing and flashing the roof...

 

[bobforsaken]

example thread https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/52119/

 

[BurnIt13]

Full Disclosure.. I'm a newb myself.. but I've seen many installs on this forum where the roof overhang is cut away to allow the pipe to go straight up. Some interesting threads about the challenges in re-sealing and flashing the roof...

Due to the design of the house, I'd rather not cut away the roof overhang. That would open up a can of technical/aesthetic worms I'd rather not get into. Also, the minimum clearance above the stove is 48" in an alcove installation per the Quadra-Fire Install manual. I'll be at 60".

Just to add to the mix, I'll add option three. This would provide great draft but I don't think it would look all that great. The stovepipe would exit out of the backwall of the alcove into a T and then the chimney would go straight up. The only issue is that it would be spaced 36" from the house. That might look odd. I'm not even sure if its allowable but I figured I'd throw it out there.

 

[Pagey]

I'm showing my newbieness here but...what is the function of the stove baffle, where is it typically located, and how does one remove it? A picture some where on the net would be nice

Think of a baffle as a "smoke shelf" inside the stove. In old stoves, there was nothing impeding the smoke from going straight out the flue. In a modern stove, there is a "shelf" inside the firebox which makes the smoke take a slower, S type path around the firebox before exiting to the flue. This path usually has preheated oxygen introduced into it at the top of the baffle, and this causes secondary combustion. It burns volatile smoke/gases that would otherwise exit the firebox as particulate matter that can 1.) condense into creosote inside the flue and/or 2.) enter the outside air as some nice, smoky pollution.

See below an image from www.woodheat.org showing the inside/cutaway view of a non-catalytic EPA stove with a baffle. Baffles are made of different material: fire brick, ceramic boards, stainless steel, etc.

 

[dougand3]

Check out the Feb 10 thread that Bob linked above. Good pic of cut eave.
Looking over the Selkirk Supervent USA install manual...it does say in BIG letters...NEVER OFFSET AN EXTERIOR CHIMNEY. They do make provisions for a 15 or 30 degree offset in the attic with elbow supports.
http://www.selkirkcorp.com/SuperVent/Product.aspx?id=220 The pdf manual is under "Installation - View documents"
Option 3 looks like you bought an old SAC Air Base and they forgot to remove the missile when the cold war ended. Even if that is legal, think of the supports required.
If cutting the soffit/fascia board away is not appealing...another option is a hearth install in front of the alcove (which could become a wood crib). You would have an interior chimney until roof decking. You would have to frame a chase around the chimney in the upstairs BR.

 

[BurnIt13]

Check out the Feb 10 thread that Bob linked above. Good pic of cut eave.
Looking over the Selkirk Supervent USA install manual...it does say in BIG letters...NEVER OFFSET AN EXTERIOR CHIMNEY. They do make provisions for a 15 or 30 degree offset in the attic with elbow supports.

Ouch. Who ever thought installing wood stoves was easy anyway? So essentially I'm between a rock and a hard place right now. Unless someone can contradict Doug:

Option 1 - Clean install, convenient, but no-can-do because of the chimney offset. Only way to make it work is to cut through the eve.
Option 2 - No offsets allowed, see above.
Option 3 - Better suited to anti-aircraft missiles.

So...unfortunetely installing the stove in the dining room not in the alcove wont work. There is a dormer in the upstairs bedroom above the dining room. The only place the chimney could be framed in would be right in front of the dormer window.

It all boils down to....option 1 is best. IF exterior exposed chimney offsets are allowable. Can anyone confirm that they aren't???

Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[daryl]

6" class A only takes 12 1/4" if you use selkirk thats 2" off siding 8 1/4" for pipe 2" for clearance on other side = 12 1/4. you have a 16" overhang with a 1 1/2 facia board = 14 1/2". Go through the eve and be done with it.

 

[BurnIt13]

So is that a NO on the exterior chimney offset?

 

[begreen]

You've picked a stove with good close clearances and a good reputation. But an inch or two could make a big difference, so I would run the numbers on installing a Napoleon 1400, allowing 2" clearance for the pipe from the eave.

Option 3 presents a support dilemma and a bit of a visual obstacle. So see if the few inches gained with the Napoleon help out.

 

[madrone]

My chimney resembles option 3 but without the alcove. 5 feet of double-wall inside, 90's through the wall, and straight up, with a cutout in the eave. The cutout hasn't created any problems. I'd throw in a vote for a modified option 1, with the eave cut out. If I could, I'd have one straight shot that I could clean by removing the pipe inside. Better draft, and easier cleaning.

 

[WES999]

You could easily put the offset INSIDE, between the stove and the support box, then go straight up with the class A chimney.
This is how my stove is installed.
BTW I can clean form the top down, the brush will pass through the offset.

 

[BurnIt13]

You've picked a stove with good close clearances and a good reputation. But an inch or two could make a big difference, so I would run the numbers on installing a Napoleon 1400, allowing 2" clearance for the pipe from the eave.

Option 3 presents a support dilemma and a bit of a visual obstacle. So see if the few inches gained with the Napoleon help out.

Funny you should mention the Napoleon 1400. It was a toss up between the Napoleon 1400 and the Quadra-Fire 3100. The only reason I settled on theh Quadra-Fire is because I thought that the Napoleon 1400 couldn't be installed in an alcove. The only reason I thought that was because of the note in the install manual under alcove installation. It makes it seem as though only the 1100 model can be installed in an alcove. See the bottom left of page 5 in the manual.
http://www.napoleonfireplaces.com/Tech/installation_manuals/EPA.pdf

Here is a drawing of where the alcove will end up and where the pipe will run. If I cut through the eave, this is how it will go. Unfortunetely it will be passing through the dormer eave.

Here is a quick sketch of the alcove clearances that I will be dealing with. I used the minimum clearances + 1". Quadra-Fire vs Napolean. Both are acceptable as long as I am cutting through the eave. I was really hoping to avoid this by having an offset up at the eave but if cutting through the eave is what I have to do than so be it!

 

[madrone]

Ah. Not sure about a cut in a sloped eave. Mine's in a dormer, next to a window just like yours, but through a flat eave. I didn't do this install, it was here when I bought the house, but they could have run it all straight up inside by enclosing it in a chase in the closet upstairs.

 

[begreen]

Ah, didn't catch the alcove note in the manual. Funny I have read this manual several times and hadn't noticed that comment. But it looks like the 1400 still wouldn't make the clearances you need to miss the gable eave. Seeing the alcove is not built yet, is there a possibility of putting it in the room corner and coming straight up through the house. It looks like that would put is in a kneewall space in the floor above?

PS: Thanks for posting the great visualizations. They really help!

 

[BurnIt13]

Unfortunetely the rooms in our house are rather awkwardly shaped and fairly small. This is the only location in the house that I could potentially install a stove in. If I were to not build the alcove and install the stove in the corner of the dining room I would not have enough room to comfortably place a table and chairs.

I'm thinking since the eave is 16" deep I could either run through it, but I don't have enough knowledge about that yet OR build an exterior chase all the way up the side of the house.

 

[mikefrommaine]

I would go through the eave -- leave the fascia/rake board -- and use the proper flashing above the roof. Simple to install just carefully cut underneath the eave where the chimney will pass through.