Advice requested - dialing in Englander 25 PDV

[sam08861]

Think I got maybe 10 or 11 hrs, but don't know, since I woke up when it was in cool down. This time a birds nest and several nuggets, with several glowing embers, after full shutoff. Still, better than before. Door temp was just over 500 when I checked last night before bed.

Decided to clean again with the blower and used aluminum tape this time to make sure there was a good seal. Pulled out a bit more of the black stuff. Also redid the rope gasket where it was leaking with leftover gasket and used some hight temp rtv sealant to some other areas to ensure no gaps and finally, removed the top plugs in the burn box, so only the bottom is plugged.

Getting a better burn it seems and a smaller flame that gets bigger when the pellets 'get delivered.'

Running 1,6 and 1,5,1 on Mode D and it seems to be much cooler. This time, temp on door is only ~375 about 2 hours in using the rutland magnet but I haven't checked with an IR thermometer. Will do that now.

 

[sam08861]

Centech meter shows 391 on the top frame of the door. Won't read the glass, just says "Hi" so perhaps is beyond it's top limit.

This IR thermometer with the magnet thermometer. Surprised the magnet is so accurate.

 

[Pellet rick]

I’m wondering if your stove is still feeding to many pellets for the setting it on. I just checked mine at setting 3-5 and I’m at 275 Different pellets though . I’m going to set to your settings and see where I’m at

 

[sam08861]

Thanks Rick,

I was wondering the same as it didn't seem to be all too different from mode C.

Will see how long this bag runs and if it's not so good, will perhaps have to time the upper auger to see what the on/off cycle is in mode D.

 

[Pellet rick]

Well that didn’t go well. My stove set at your settings but in C mode and different pellets will not stay lit. It died out within a few minutes.

 

[sam08861]

Sorry to hear that.

Temp on the door frame is now 419. It seems as the 'red hots' in the burn pot start to pile up, the temp climbs. Still burning clean, but will have to keep an eye on it.

 

[Ssyko]

Ok here's the timing for the pdv and pdvc
"from englanders HMFIC Engineer Mike Holten basically the heat range adjustment changes the amount of "on time" per cycle, each cycle represents one "run" + one "stop" in other words if the "on" is 2 seconds, the "off" will be 14 seconds. if the "on"is 4 seconds the "off " will be 12 seconds and so forth it always adds up to 16 seconds. the "feed amounts" are based on approximations , as you know all pellets are not the same uniform size so the "lbs per hour" are not a "set in stone" rate. FWIW the "on" time on heat range 9 in "D" mode is 4.77 seconds. the On time in C mode heat range 9 is 5.13 seconds. the other heat ranges have scaled differences between c and d as well though i cannot remember them off the top of my head".

D mode there is a 4.7 second delay on the top Auger and a 16 second cycle
C mode there is a 7 second delay on the top Auger and a 16 second cycle

 

[Pellet rick]

Ok just for record. I just timed my stove and on heat set at 9 it is on for roughly 6 and off for around 10 . So I should be timed pretty close to what Ssyko stated. Sam what are your times. I am also running C mode

 

[sam08861]

I only measured the 1 setting in mode C so far and got approx 5 seconds on and 11 seconds off.

Will have to wait for this hopperload to 'perish' and measure what I'm getting in D mode.

As an update, temp is now (IR) 457 at the top portion of the door frame.

 

[Pellet rick]

If your still in 151 I’m thinking your getting to many pellets being fed. I have mine leaned out on setting 1+2 and only gets up to 275 deg. At least with the pellets I’m running right now which run cooler.(American wood fibers) . I save the easyblaze for colder outside temps.

 

[sam08861]

If your still in 151 I’m thinking your getting to many pellets being fed. I have mine leaned out on setting 1+2 and only gets up to 275 deg. At least with the pellets I’m running right now which run cooler.(American wood fibers) . I save the easyblaze for colder outside temps.

Yep, thinking since the timing checked out (at least in mode c) that I'll have to shrink the opening for the pellet drop from the hopper, but will report back on the spin/no spin timing on the auger for mode D 1st.

One thing I did was last year, was to cover the inside of the hopper with a very smooth/slick foil tape, because I was getting a lot of stuck pellets on the sides of the hopper. Now they all fall and I'm getting all the pellets out of the bag, save a few which are resting on the restrictor plate itself.

Wondering if this 'slickening' has made the feed "too good."

edit.. at 7.5 hours, after a scrape of the plate, heat is at 500 on the door.

 

[Pellet rick]

No I do not think the slicking of the hopper is a problem. Actually I am pretty sure we all do that. If your timing is good I would lean towards pellets being on the small side and feeding to many to quick on the on cycle. One thing is you changed to D mode, the correct mode is C as you know . So something is up, whether its pellet size or control issues. I feel that 500Deg on that low of a setting is way to hot. When was the last time the convection blower was removed and the squirrel cage cleaned out. Those cages are very prone to dust build up and it does not take much dust to slow the rotation down which will make them over heat. I have been there to the point of the safety shutting the stove off. Only reason I bring this up is your pellet consumption is not far off .

 

[sam08861]

Got 10.5 Hours on the last burn, until an empty hopper and then another hour or so before shutoff.

Pellet Rick,

Had not checked out the convection blower yet so thanks for the tip.

Just took the back and control panel off and removed the blower. Looked pretty clean, with a very light ashy dust, so wiped off with a cloth and toothbrush and reinstalled. Of note, these units are very serviceable! 2 screws for the control board and 4 screws for the blower. Took longer to get the back off. Reinstalling, getting the blower lined up was the tougher bit. Wish they would have had an access panel like the combustion blower did to make this easier. Not bad, though ~45 minutes total.

While I was in there, looked at the control board and no obvious signs of burns or anything.

One question, replaced the zip ties with ones from Lowes (nylon, I believe). Assuming this is Ok and there's no such thing as a high temp zip tie?

 

[Pellet rick]

Zip ties are fine.Just an FYI, You can get the blower out without pulling the control board. Does it seem to blow more air now or is it the same. Another tip for removing and installing the blower. I use a 1/4 drive magnetized socket on a very long extension to get the screws out and back in. Makes life a lot easier.

 

[sam08861]

Thanks again. Air from underneath the vent over the door seems to be about the same, or perhaps I can't tell. A bit of a funny low pitch tone at speeds 5 and 6, but I can't tell by hand if the difference between 6 and 9 are different. Can tell a little by the tone change.

Timing the auger now...

ps, thanks for the tip on the magentized sockets, was using a dab of rubber cement to keep from losing them.

 

[sam08861]

OK, so top auger in 1 setting is 3 seconds on and 13 seconds off, I assume this is working correctly. (Mode D as a reminder)

One thing I noticed is that the lower auger is running ~ 1 2/3rd RPM (1.67).

Looking at the pellet sizes in daylight, there are a LOT more small bits than I saw earlier. I would say MOST are smaller than 3/4"

Any advice appreciated for next steps!

Partial block of hopper hole?
Call Englander?

 

[Pellet rick]

Top auger sounds right but the bottom auger should be a 1RPM motor. You shore you counted right. Is this stove a used stove when you got it or was it brand new? You can cut a piece of tin with a smaller hole and tape it in the hopper with a non combustible foil tape to try. Or it never hurts to call englander . You should be able to run efficiently in C mode and be able to dial it down to an idle like I can.

 

[Ssyko]

If the auger motors are replacements, im betting they came from pellet head and are advertised as 1rpm but actually are 1.5rpm. That would explain why we have been struggling with the dial in.

 

[sam08861]

If the auger motors are replacements, im betting they came from pellet head and are advertised as 1rpm but actually are 1.5rpm. That would explain why we have been struggling with the dial in.

Motors are the ones that came with the unit. Bought the stove in Feb 2019, (Brand Spankin' New) and manufacture date is 8/18.

Given that, any suggestions?

ps... lower auger speed was measured during startup. Is it possible the auger spins faster at startup to get the bin full and a warm start?

 

[Ssyko]

Ok good. I would double check your rpm measurement. 1.67 is a problem.

 

[Pellet rick]

That would explain a few things

 

[Ssyko]

No the auger motors don't change speed. I would get behind the stove and watch the anger set screw/bolt, and use a timer and see. Oem are supposed to be 1rpm, if yours is diff call ESW.

 

[sam08861]

Thanks Fellas!

So, took some video and it's about 1.5 RPM clearly, as shown by the timer. Get a massive pile at startup and then have to back off the air, after this burns off.

Takes 40 seconds for a full rotation.

Will call ESW tomorrow morning, 1st thing.

If anyone wants to see the videos, glad to post them.

 

[sam08861]

And the startup vid.

Boring 15 mins, but Really cool spark at 3:52 and lights up at 4:22. Room blower starts 13:30.



Looks low res for now...

And after the initial pile burns off... A small flame..

 

[Pellet rick]

2 things that I can see. 1- you are feeding to many pellets . That could be a RPM issue. 2- next time you start up , take a small hand full or pellets and throw them into the back right corner at the igniter. That will cut down your start up time to flame. Let us know what Englander tells you.