Another benefit of EVs - less brake dust pollution

semipro

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2009
3,708
SW Virginia
TIL something like 1/5 of particulate matter pollution (@PM2.5) near roads comes from vehicle brake pads. Other sources include exhaust and tires.

EVs rely more on electric motor braking (regen) so they are likely to produce less brake pad dust.
I know the brakes on our hybrid Toyota Highlander last a lot longer than our ICE vehicles.

BRAKE PAD AIR POLLUTION AS BAD FOR LUNGS AS DIESEL EXHAUST
-> AirQualityNews.com reported that a study published in Metallomics suggested fine particulate matter (PM2.5) originating from brake pads may be just as bad for the lungs as PM2.5 from diesel exhaust. (Brake Dust Exposure Exacerbates Inflammation and Transiently Compromises Phagocytosis in Macrophages: https://rsc.li/2GgyR7m) Brake pad emissions make up a fifth of PM2.5 air pollution at roadsides. Researchers found that it causes inflammation, which harms respiratory health, as well as damaging cells when they enter the lungs. They also believe that brake pad dust could be contributing to coughs and colds suffered by Londoners. http://bit.ly/2twe1hV
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
3,652
Downeast Maine
Wow, the more I learn about particulate emissions the more I feel bad about all of the race car stuff I used to do before moving to Maine.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Between tire (rubber) wearing away and brake dust, I'm getting less worried about it and more worried about the failing power grid.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
81,306
South Puget Sound, WA
The brake pads on our Volt at 40K miles were like new. It feels odd now when I drive a car without regenerative braking.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
The brake pads on our Volt at 40K miles were like new. It feels odd now when I drive a car without regenerative braking.

Have that on my 350 Ford diesel pickup... Exhaust brake.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
3,652
Downeast Maine
That's engine braking, not generating power while braking and a lot noisier.
My Mach 1 was at times louder under engine braking than under throttle. I curse every time I hear a Jake brake without a good reasonm
 

semipro

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2009
3,708
SW Virginia
My Mach 1 was at times louder under engine braking than under throttle. I curse every time I hear a Jake brake without a good reasonm
The driver with the annoying Jake Brake may say the "good reason" is to decrease brake wear which is interesting given the context here. I guess the tradeoff is noise versus air pollution.

I hate them BTW, unmuffled Jake Brakes.
 

Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,438
Philadelphia
TIL something like 1/5 of particulate matter pollution (@PM2.5) near roads comes from vehicle brake pads. Other sources include exhaust and tires.
Sorry about the tire dust, that was probably me.

Engine breaking also cuts down on brake pad dust, even if less beneficial than regenerative breaking. As one who always drive manual trans, I also hate driving any auto without a high level of engine braking, and love Tesla’s more aggressive regen.
 
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SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
It's not a Jake Brake btw. Jacobs Brake (Jake Brake) is just one company that makes them. Correct name is an engine retarder.

No 4 wheel toasters here. Don't work out here in the sticks but my Cousin has a Tesla AWD SUV. Nice ride, drove it. Cannot get by the price tag. Everytime he visits, I have to plug him into the 220 shop power.

I drive a manual too and I don't replace pads for at least 75K miles and then Ceramic only. I sell EBC in my real life.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
3,652
Downeast Maine
I engine brake in my diesel six speed truck, but hearing what sounds like a machine gun going around a gentle curve near my house or when going through a 25 MPH zone in town is a different story.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Because owner operators run straight pipes. Of course the day of the OO is rapidly coming to an end anyway and most company trucks have engine retarders but have mufflers as well so you don't hear the retarder.

Of course then you have the motorcycle crowd that 'thinks' the louder the exhaust is, the more 'macho' they are.

I laugh about the Hardley saying, 'loud pipes save lives'. On the contrary, loud exhaust only causes citizens to enact noise abatement ordinances.

I find loud motorcycle exhaust way more irritating the the occasional unmuffled engine retarder.

Louder means faster.... Ah no. Louder means no back pressure means loss of power. You need some back pressure in a 4 stroke to keep all the charge in the cylinders, unless that engine is running tuned headers. Tuned headers control the exiting exhaust pulse and cause the incoming charge to stay where it belongs, in the cylinders but, most loud exhaust bikes don't have tuned headers.

In reality, any turbocharged diesel (no retarder) is actually muffled. The turbo is recognized as an exhaust muffling device by the Fed.

I run a straight pipe on my one diesel pickup and it's not noisy at all. Just whistles as the turbo spools up.
 

semipro

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2009
3,708
SW Virginia
Sorry about the tire dust, that was probably me.
Or me. I like G-force and I'd much prefer my tires wear out rather than rot away.
 

semipro

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2009
3,708
SW Virginia
It's not a Jake Brake btw. Jacobs Brake (Jake Brake) is just one company that makes them. Correct name is an engine retarder.
So what do you call Kleenex, Band-Aids, Sharpies, Q-tips, etc? ;)
 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
3,652
Downeast Maine
Because owner operators run straight pipes. Of course the day of the OO is rapidly coming to an end anyway and most company trucks have engine retarders but have mufflers as well so you don't hear the retarder.

Of course then you have the motorcycle crowd that 'thinks' the louder the exhaust is, the more 'macho' they are.

I laugh about the Hardley saying, 'loud pipes save lives'. On the contrary, loud exhaust only causes citizens to enact noise abatement ordinances.

I find loud motorcycle exhaust way more irritating the the occasional unmuffled engine retarder.

Louder means faster.... Ah no. Louder means no back pressure means loss of power. You need some back pressure in a 4 stroke to keep all the charge in the cylinders, unless that engine is running tuned headers. Tuned headers control the exiting exhaust pulse and cause the incoming charge to stay where it belongs, in the cylinders but, most loud exhaust bikes don't have tuned headers.

In reality, any turbocharged diesel (no retarder) is actually muffled. The turbo is recognized as an exhaust muffling device by the Fed.

I run a straight pipe on my one diesel pickup and it's not noisy at all. Just whistles as the turbo spools up.
My ram has no muffler either, just a cat and of course the turbo. The bike I traded for it was loud, but still muffled. The two local engine retarder offenders are seriously like hearing an M2 firing down the road. They do it in town all the time as well. I assume the drivers don't live around here.
 

DBoon

Minister of Fire
Jan 14, 2009
1,162
Central NY
Agreed that regen braking on an EV is hard to give up once you have it.

I still drive my nearly 5 year old Chevy Sonic manual transmission car about once a month or so. It has 135,000 miles and original brake pads (mostly highway miles). I credit part of this long brake pad life to just not driving as fast as many and also looking a hundred yards ahead or more to anticipate when I need to slow down.

Being an avid bicyclist, I can tell you that there are some good bicycling habits that lead to good driving habits. Nobody on a bike would ride 20 mph up to a stoplight and then jam on the brakes to stop in 20 feet, only to have to expend the energy to get going again a few seconds later. But that is how most people drive their cars.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Isn't 'Sonic' a hamburger joint?:p:p
 

lml999

Feeling the Heat
Oct 25, 2013
499
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Wow, the more I learn about particulate emissions the more I feel bad about all of the race car stuff I used to do before moving to Maine.
I attended a Nikon photography workshop at Lime Rock a few years ago. Got press passes that allowed full pit access during a pro race. Second thing that surprised me was the quantity of tire dust in the air from cars leaving the pits.

First thing, of course, was the noise. It was indeed my first rodeo, and someone in the pits was kind enough to hand me a pair of foam ear plugs. (Every other time I've been at a track I've either been a spectator at a safe distance or had a helmet on.)

Got some great photos while hanging over the pit wall!
 
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Where2

Feeling the Heat
Feb 3, 2013
364
South Florida
The EV may not make much brake dust, but the rust particles it drops on my wheels from the rotors surface rusting is just as much hassle to clean off the alloy wheels as brake dust...

My wifes last car: 169k on the original front brake pads. Went through a set of rear pads every 55k, never had to replace the front pads.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
3,652
Downeast Maine
I attended a Nikon photography workshop at Lime Rock a few years ago. Got press passes that allowed full pit access during a pro race. Second thing that surprised me was the quantity of tire dust in the air from cars leaving the pits.

First thing, of course, was the noise. It was indeed my first rodeo, and someone in the pits was kind enough to hand me a pair of foam ear plugs. (Every other time I've been at a track I've either been a spectator at a safe distance or had a helmet on.)

Got some great photos while hanging over the pit wall!
Lime Rock is really cool. After even an autocross event (lots of tortured tires and brakes) my hands and clothes would be covered in asphalt, tire, and brake dust. I do miss racing sometimes
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
81,306
South Puget Sound, WA
Lime Rock is really cool. After even an autocross event (lots of tortured tires and brakes) my hands and clothes would be covered in asphalt, tire, and brake dust. I do miss racing sometimes
I saw many races there too. Had a friend that worked there back in the 70s and spent many days with the pit crews. One job they had to do is keep brush cleared and get rid of the rattlesnakes which liked that area. This was during the days of Paul Newman racing. He tipped my friend $50 on day, just to see the reaction.
 
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Ashful

Minister of Fire
Mar 7, 2012
15,438
Philadelphia
I saw many races there too. Had a friend that worked there back in the 70s and spent many days with the pit crews. One job they had to do is keep brush cleared and get rid of the rattlesnakes which liked that area. This was during the days of Paul Newman racing. He tipped my friend $50 on day, just to see the reaction.
Check out Carolla’s documentary Winning, if you have any interest in or history with Newman. Pretty cool story.

 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
3,652
Downeast Maine
I saw many races there too. Had a friend that worked there back in the 70s and spent many days with the pit crews. One job they had to do is keep brush cleared and get rid of the rattlesnakes which liked that area. This was during the days of Paul Newman racing. He tipped my friend $50 on day, just to see the reaction.
My old landlord in NC met Paul Newman at LMP. According to James, my landlord, Newman was pretty cool.

I'm sure working as a pit crew member is horrible for lung and skin health.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
My old landlord in NC met Paul Newman at LMP. According to James, my landlord, Newman was pretty cool.

I'm sure working as a pit crew member is horrible for lung and skin health.

Working, in general is horrible for lung and skin health....lol Why I'm gainfully retired.,,, :p
 
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DBoon

Minister of Fire
Jan 14, 2009
1,162
Central NY
Isn't 'Sonic' a hamburger joint?
Ha ha, yep! A hedgehog too. Admittedly, a stupid name for a car (almost kept me from buying it) but the little hatchback is/was an under appreciated small car that was a lot of fun to drive, very quiet on the inside (great soundproofing) and pretty economical to boot. I could get 48 mpg in the summer driving gently on the highway with the 1.6L turbo and 6-speed manual. I had the after-market suspension kit installed to lower it another 2/3" of an inch. Mine has the sunroof, mid-level sound system, 1.6L turbo, manual transmission and suspension kit and I drove it off the lot for less than $20k cash. Can't beat that.