Anyone heard of "Can Warping"?

[PapaDave]

This is a pic of the back of my Ashley steptop. The guy doing the rebuild says it "can warped". He's a mech. eng., EXCELLENT welder, concrete and masonry, and construction guy. Built his own boiler, and has a Quad Isle Royale in his great room.
I've posted in the past about this bulge in the back of the stove. I've been (every year) cleaning, then refilling with refractory cement, but still having a little problem keeping a fire for more than a couple hours, even with the air down low. Obviously (I think), this is still letting in some air as the cement degrades. Now that the wood is the driest it's ever been, I hope to be able to get longer burns this year after he replaces the back plate.
Any thoughts? Suggestions? Comments, or even smart azz remarks are welcome and hoped for.
I'd really like to see how this stove was meant to burn when new, since the back plate is the only bad spot on the stove.
And NO, I'm not the one who, quite obviously, WAY overfired this thing. Previous owner, or someone else, but not me. Honest.
It had some kind of fibrous material stuffed in the broken weld gap, then cement gooped in on top of that.

 

[fossil]

I've heard it called "oil-canning" before. It's a problem familiar to metalworkers of all stripes...from boilermakers to autobody techs. The metal has expanded under extreme heat, and will never return to its original dimensions. Some talented bodywork folks can use heat and cold to shrink sheet metal somewhat, but a plate of 1/4" or 3/16" steel, I'm afraid, will not respond to such efforts. I think it's pretty safe to say that no matter what you try to do with that thing, you'll never be able to completely seal off the unwanted air infiltration. Rick (also a Mechanical Engineer)

 

[bobforsaken]

I know sometimes metal can warp... Wood can warp too and its a pain to build with.

 

[cmonSTART]

Ouch! I don't think there is a practical way to make that usable again. Time for an upgrade?

That's one ugly can you have!

 

[PapaDave]

Bob, yep, and sometimes, minds ......can warp.
Rick, I knew the back plate is toast. The plan is to maybe grind the welds off the back plate, or cut it out. Friend has some friends who do prototype work for the auto world, and he's having them laser cut a new back, which he'll then weld in.
Alternative is a new stove (wouldn't hurt my feelings), but this is a barter deal, so no out of pocket for me. I've seen his welding skills.
I'll post pics of the good, bad, or ugly. Time to get the stove room tiled, before he gets done with the stove. Pics of that to follow, too.

 

[PapaDave]

Ouch! I don't think there is a practical way to make that usable again. Time for an upgrade?

That's one ugly can you have!

Hey, let's not get personal. :lol:

 

[Danno77]

I don't know why people are saying it's a lost cause. It looks like a sheet of flat steel to me. Replace with a heavier gauge and seal and weld as appropriate. project done.

never heard of "can warping" before, but definitely have seen that warping that you have pictured. as you said, major overfiring. My guess is that you just have air infiltration in that spot (even with patching yearly) and it was burning your wood from the back of the stove and probably making the warping worse because it would get a hot spot right where the air was coming in.

 

[BrotherBart]

Same thing happened at the top back of the firebox of my old 1/4" plate insert. It popped a weld and I caused it by banging splits against the unprotected back wall loading N/S at high stove temps for a long time. Try as I may I could not get anything to stay in that gap and that sucker kept running away with seriously dangerous stove temps. It now sits on the back 40 as the firebox for a meat smoker. And occasional incinerator use.

I have to sleep in this house. And I now gently slide those splits into the 30-NC.

PS: On mine the cold air was coming in right next to the flue collar and created serious glazing in the chimney.

 

[begreen]

That old soldier looks ready for retirement. i would not try to repair it.

 

[BrotherBart]

That old soldier looks ready for retirement. i would not try to repair it.

Nobody will drive a 75 Chevy but they will try to keep a wood stove alive forever. Go figure.

 

[heatwise]

its the battle of the bulge, seriously though, my dad has a stove that he has re welded every few years . the inside has a piece of metal that warps and i believe the back was redone twice.not bad for about 35 years of service from the same unit. pete

 

[begreen]

After 35 yrs of service, most humans and stoves are ready for retirement. There have been some improvements along the way. Time to move on up to the next generation stove.

 

[BrotherBart]

its the battle of the bulge, seriously though, my dad has a stove that he has re welded every few years . the inside has a piece of metal that warps and i believe the back was redone twice.not bad for about 35 years of service from the same unit. pete

I am in serious need of re-welding. The stove is doing fine. And yes, I have some "can warping".

 

[yanksforever]

WOW...it looks like it's time for a new stove...better get in before the tax breaks end!

 

[oldspark]

That old soldier looks ready for retirement. i would not try to repair it.

Nobody will drive a 75 Chevy but they will try to keep a wood stove alive forever. Go figure.

I drive a 68 chevy, what am I doing wrong?

 

[madrone]

That old soldier looks ready for retirement. i would not try to repair it.

Nobody will drive a 75 Chevy but they will try to keep a wood stove alive forever. Go figure.

I drive a 68 chevy, what am I doing wrong?

Huge diff between a '68 & a '75.

That stove is cooked. Time for a new toy!

 

[PapaDave]

Well, I've gotta' say, I appreciate all the replies and advice, but this plan is still in effect until I find out if the naysayers are correct. Who knows, maybe I'll get even worse burn times when it's fixed. :sick:
Ooooorr, it'll burn better than it ever has (or at least as good as it ever has). New 6" stove pipe is going in no matter what this year to replace the oversized 8".
Money's a little tight right now, so I hope this works. If not, I'll bite the bullet and get the big dog 30nc. It was on my short list anyway.
I should know in 2-3 weeks when I crank it up in the driveway.

 

[oldspark]

It aint rocket science, if money is tight and and you have a good welder to fix it that is the right choice for you.

 

[SteveKG]

You are on your way to being in business making heat, as welding a new plate on that stove is the way to go. Someone along the line has built a too-hot fire for that metal. Be careful not to do it once it's repaired and it'll be fine. Nothing wrong with purchasing a more "modern" stove, but nothing wrong with keeping that one. I am assuming the only thing wrong is that back side. If the welding does not turn out good and sound, then trashing the thing is definitely in order. However, if it were mine, I'd fix the thing.

Well, if that stove, even repaired, would not do the job or be appropriate for your need of it, then I'd get another, better stove and maybe repair the old one some day just for the heck of it. Or give it to someone who wants to do so.

 

[PapaDave]

oldspark, yep, money's tight for another couple years (maybe), then I'm getting a new stove for sure. Meantime, make do with what I've got if possible.

SteveKG, that's the thing. It runs pretty well, considering it leaks air. I just can't get long burns like I think I should be able to. It HAS gotten a little toasty too, but the warping hasn't gotten any worse, that I can tell. I use thermometers on the stove and pipe to let me know how the burn is doing, even if they aren't completely accurate.
Pretty nice stove in it's day, I'm sure, and is similar in look and size to a Quad 5700 S/T.

 

[Corey]

Looks like it might have cracked a weld which let in a little extra air. That air caused the fire to burn hotter in that spot - which caused the steel to warp a little. The warping then let in more air, meaning a hotter fire and more warping. Downward spiral until the back is warped like you see today. If you can hammer that plate straight, or maybe even make a relief cut to flatten it out. Then get a good, air-tight weld on it, it should be good to go.

 

[PapaDave]

Looks like it might have cracked a weld which let in a little extra air. That air caused the fire to burn hotter in that spot - which caused the steel to warp a little. The warping then let in more air, meaning a hotter fire and more warping. Downward spiral until the back is warped like you see today. If you can hammer that plate straight, or maybe even make a relief cut to flatten it out. Then get a good, air-tight weld on it, it should be good to go.

I'm pretty sure the whole thing started when someone just let 'er rip. Downward spiral, for sure.
The stove is in good hands, getting a brand new back put in. New L-bracket for bricks in the back of the stove, too.

 

[BrotherBart]

I would have tried a weld in my old stove but being an insert the damage was under the shroud in the back so unreachable to weld. As it turned out, I am glad I couldn't get it fixed. Its replacement heats more and uses right at half the wood doing it.

Keep us posted on how that heater does for ya after the fix.

 

[PapaDave]

BrotherBart, If/when I get the 30, can I have a t-shirt?
On the other hand, if I have my druthers, my pick would be the Quad 5700. I saw it's little brother at a somewhat local stove shop earlier this year. The time was about noon, and the stove was full of wood. I asked the guy when that load got put in, and his reply was "right around 8 this morning, just as we opened the store". The wood was charred, the air was turned down, and the thing looked like it was going to burn for another few hours.
I'm really sold on the efficiency of the new stoves, no one needs to persuade me, and can't wait to get one. If it saves even 25% of the wood I use now, I'll be in stove/firewood heaven.
I plan to post pics of the stove upon it's return- whether good or bad.
Here's a shot of the stove before it got pulled.
Of course, the handle's on the wrong side. :red: